Recipe for YeastBay Farmhouse Sour

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MaddBaggins

MaddBaggins

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Working on a recipe to use Yeast Bays farmhouse sour. Looking for some advice. This will be the first time I've tried lacto.



10# Pilsner malt
#5 wheat
1# Munich 10L

1oz Saaz hops 45min

green cardamom 1/2oz
fresh ginger 1oz
YeastBay Farmhouse sour blend


Thoughts?

***Changed this first post to reflect what I actually did. ***
 
Last edited:
GTG said:
That seems like an odd mix of spices that in my opinion don't meld together with each other or with cantaloupe. I'd try ginger with cantaloupe in a taster before making that beer.
Click to expand...



The cantaloupe was an after thought. I may skip fruit altogether.
I'm not sold on the star anise either. I haven't used it yet. The cardamom an ginger go really well together.


Sent from my magic box, using only my thumbs.
 
I agree with cutting back some spices and probably the cantaloupe all together. I'd try to brew one with no spices just to see how the yeast and lacto will be with your grain bill. But you may not want to go that route. If you do one without the spices first your can see how much you like it and what to add in next time.

I'm working up a recipe for the Farmhouse Sour as well. I'm just going to pitch that vial alone into a saison style wort and see what I get.

Good luck!
 
Or maybe better yet add the spices at bottling. You can make a tea and add specific amounts to samples to come up with your best flavor profile, scaling up to your batch size. You could also bottle an amount unspiced that way.
 
GTG said:
A
You were right, after checking the green cardamom, it does go with the ginger. I would still be hesitant to use both though.
Click to expand...


I should have mentioned that I regularly use them both together, along with coriander and bitter orange peel, in a Saison I brew every year. Excellent brew, different grain bill than this.
I try to think about the different spice combos commercial brewers use and think of ways I can apply them. Usually in a similar beer.
 
MaddBaggins said:
I should have mentioned that I regularly use them both together, along with coriander and bitter orange peel, in a Saison I brew every year. Excellent brew, different grain bill than this.
I try to think about the different spice combos commercial brewers use and think of ways I can apply them. Usually in a similar beer.
Click to expand...

Since this is your first time using lacto, I would suggest either skipping the fruit and spice altogether, or using your other saison recipe with no modifications. That way, you get a good idea of what the lacto will do in your conditions.

Also, since the Farmhouse Sour blend has Sacc in it, why not either use that by itself, or just add a pure lacto culture to the Saison Blend?
 
TheZymurgist said:
Since this is your first time using lacto, I would suggest either skipping the fruit and spice altogether, or using your other saison recipe with no modifications. That way, you get a good idea of what the lacto will do in your conditions.



Also, since the Farmhouse Sour blend has Sacc in it, why not either use that by itself, or just add a pure lacto culture to the Saison Blend?
Click to expand...


I thought I should use a "primary" yeast because Yeastbays site says a starter is not recommended for their blends, but the vial only has 53b cells.
Not a bad plan to use my other recipe.
So far the only thing I've spent money on is the yeast.



Sent from my magic box, using only my thumbs.
 
Just ordered this strain, looking forward to seeing what you guys come up with. I probably won't be brewing anything with it for a month or two but wanted to have it in my stable.
 
I mashed at 158f on an 80/20 Pils wheat 1055 wort at the vial took it down to 1004 in 14 days.

Just saying
 
m00se said:
I mashed at 158f on an 80/20 Pils wheat 1055 wort at the vial took it down to 1004 in 14 days.

Just saying
Click to expand...


Did you make a starter with this blend or just pitch it?


Sent from my magic box, using only my thumbs.
 
What temperature are you planning on using? They recently posted this on their Facebook about their Melange Blend and Farmhouse Sour that might help you on the fermentation end:

"We've been been conducting some experiments with our Mélange Sour Blend and Farmhouse Sour Ale in which we fermented a pale wort of ~5 IBU at 70 F for 3 days, followed by 78 F for 2 weeks. While the beers were still young and the Mélange needs time for the Brettanomyces to work, there was marked acidity in each.

For a fast turn around sour with either blend, you should get good results at 70 F for 3-4 days to allow the yeast to complete a bulk of the fermentation, followed by 76-78 F for 2-4 weeks to ramp up the lactic acid bacteria. If you want the beer to acidify more slowly, we recommend keeping the temperature at 68-70 F. Slower acidification is particularly recommended for the Mélange blend in order to ensure the pH doesn't drop too fast and inhibit the Brettanomyces yeast that will continue to develop the flavor profile of the beer over a long period of time. If you mature the beer on the cooler end, the temperature can always be raised later (and perhaps some extra fermentables added) to increase acidity after the yeast driven flavors fully develop.

Cheers!"
 
Fermented_minds said:
What temperature are you planning on using? They recently posted this on their Facebook about their Melange Blend and Farmhouse Sour that might help you on the fermentation end:

"We've been been conducting some experiments with our Mélange Sour Blend and Farmhouse Sour Ale in which we fermented a pale wort of ~5 IBU at 70 F for 3 days, followed by 78 F for 2 weeks. While the beers were still young and the Mélange needs time for the Brettanomyces to work, there was marked acidity in each.

For a fast turn around sour with either blend, you should get good results at 70 F for 3-4 days to allow the yeast to complete a bulk of the fermentation, followed by 76-78 F for 2-4 weeks to ramp up the lactic acid bacteria. If you want the beer to acidify more slowly, we recommend keeping the temperature at 68-70 F. Slower acidification is particularly recommended for the Mélange blend in order to ensure the pH doesn't drop too fast and inhibit the Brettanomyces yeast that will continue to develop the flavor profile of the beer over a long period of time. If you mature the beer on the cooler end, the temperature can always be raised later (and perhaps some extra fermentables added) to increase acidity after the yeast driven flavors fully develop.

Cheers!"
Click to expand...

I saw that post. Good info. My ferm closet sits in the mid 60's and if I move it into the house, I get mid 70's. I figured I would start it in the closet for a few days then move it in. Plus, I read on their site that if I mash at higher temp, I'll get more more acid production quickly.
 
MaddBaggins said:
Plus, I read on their site that if I mash at higher temp, I'll get more more acid production quickly.
Click to expand...

Not certain you'd get more acid production "quickly", but a higher mash temperature simply leaves residual sugars that are unfermentable by Sacch but usable by the Lacto. I think temperature and lactic acid bacteria concentration would be much larger factors in the rate of souring. Unlike Brett which can create quite a profile with few sugars via the modification of existing compounds, Lacto actually requires sugars to produce the lactic acid (and other acids) that makes a sour beer.
 
I'm probably going to do a simple pils/wheat combo, with some old saaz for a couple IBU's. Been sitting in my yeast fridge begging to get used.

Planning to mash around 157 or so, keep it under 1.045-1.050 OG.
 
FATC1TY said:
I'm probably going to do a simple pils/wheat combo, with some old saaz for a couple IBU's. Been sitting in my yeast fridge begging to get used.

Planning to mash around 157 or so, keep it under 1.045-1.050 OG.
Click to expand...

I haven't got to mine yet. I did a black ipa yesterday. I think next weekend sounds good. Maybe a friday night brew.
 
Picked up the ingredients today and started a 2L starter. Friday night brew after work. Probably finish up around midnight.

10# German Pilsner malt
5# Domestic wheat
1# Domestic Munich 10L

1oz Czech Saaz 45min

I'm going to leave out the sugar.
I will be using the Green Cardamom and the fresh sliced ginger. 1oz each near the end of boil. Still undecided on the cantaloupe. It's cut up and in the freezer.

I plan to mash high, 155 minimum. 90min boil
 
Here's my starter 22hrs in. Is this normal for a sach and lacto blend??

ImageUploadedByHome Brew1412902275.214359.jpg


Sent from my magic box, using only my thumbs.
 
Sparge!
Using my Goal Zero Yeti400 solar generator to power the lights at the brewery tonight.


Sent from my magic box, using only my thumbs.
 
1.071 OG, just about 6g in the fermenter. Sample tasted amazing, the green cardamom really shines.

This time, I didn't buy the cardamom at the LHBS, I scored some much fresher stuff and had to de-husk it myself. So much aroma and flavvor! I only used 1/2oz and 1oz of fresh ginger.
 
1.01 @ 6 weeks in. Very slight sour starting to develop. Temps have been high 60's where it's fermenting.
Once I turn the heater on for the winter it will ramp up a bit. It will probably be Christmas before I turn the heater on though.


Sent from my magic box, using only my thumbs.
 
MaddBaggins said:
1.01 @ 6 weeks in. Very slight sour starting to develop. Temps have been high 60's where it's fermenting.
Once I turn the heater on for the winter it will ramp up a bit. It will probably be Christmas before I turn the heater on though.


Sent from my magic box, using only my thumbs.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the update! Aside from the tartness, how's the rest of the profile?
 
Fermented_minds said:
Thanks for the update! Aside from the tartness, how's the rest of the profile?
Click to expand...

I can taste the cardamom and ginger, but it's not over powering. It's still hazy. I think it will be a good beer in time. I'll test it again around New Years.
 
any updates on this guy?

I'm thinking about doing a split 6gal batch with same base. One 3g clean beer (maybe saison dupont dregs stepped up) and one 3gal with the YB farmhouse sour blend.

I was thinking of throwing in some dregs from other wild beers for the sour batch and eventually adding some cherries or peaches.
 
I haven't even looked at it since last month. I'm in no hurry with this one. I figure I will bottle it sometime in March. I'll take another sample at the end of the month and see what's up.
 
MeanDeuce said:
any updates on this guy?

I'm thinking about doing a split 6gal batch with same base. One 3g clean beer (maybe saison dupont dregs stepped up) and one 3gal with the YB farmhouse sour blend.

I was thinking of throwing in some dregs from other wild beers for the sour batch and eventually adding some cherries or peaches.
Click to expand...

Going to brew my split batch on Friday. I have the clean starter going now from two bottles worth of Dupont dregs, a nice krausen after three days.

My vial of Farmhouse Sour says best before 2-2015. For a 3gal batch does that warrant a starter? I'm sure the sacc in there is plenty viable, more curious if I need to give the lacto some help getting going at this point.

I was also thinking about what to do at secondary. Ultimately want this to be some kind of peach and vanilla flavor to it. Would some medium toast oak soaked in white wine when racked onto the peaches be worth it?
 
Starter for a 3gal is a toss up IMO. I'd probably still do one, but maybe just a 24hr starter.
I've found that oak chips hit pretty intense pretty fast. I did 1 week in a quad and it tastes pretty well oaked. Those chips were soaked in a bottle of Cabernet Sauvignon for a month.
 
yeah I was thinking only a week or so on the oak before bottling time. Figured the peaches would be in there for maybe a month or two beforehand.
 
Pitched mine on 3gal yesterday around 7pm, still nothing to show for it this afternoon. I probably should have made a starter, but staying patient to see when it starts going.
 
Won't the bugs go out of wack a bit if you make a starter on this? I plan on making a 5.5g batch with it of probably around a 1.070 OG saison.
Thanks!
 
Matteo57 said:
Won't the bugs go out of wack a bit if you make a starter on this? I plan on making a 5.5g batch with it of probably around a 1.070 OG saison.
Thanks!
Click to expand...

They might go a little out of whack, but it's either make a starter or order 3 vials for one batch. Otherwise it's a gross underpitch. I made a starter on mine.
 
MeanDeuce said:
Pitched mine on 3gal yesterday around 7pm, still nothing to show for it this afternoon. I probably should have made a starter, but staying patient to see when it starts going.
Click to expand...

still nothing approx 48hrs in. How long can I wait before losing a batch?

Stores aren't open tomorrow but can run out after work on Tuesday and pick up something to repitch if need be.
 

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