Racking/Bottling question

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Cheaton

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Hi Guys, first thanks for all of the fantastic information here being freely available.

After reading the FAQ on secondaries, as well as a couple of days of lurking I'm still a bit confused.

I'm brewing a BB Brown Ale kit. My SG today is 1.010 which is the expected final gravity. Is there any reason I can't go ahead and bottle my beer? I understand if I drop it in a secondary it will probably be more clear. That means another $40 investment for me. All I am sure of at this point is I want to get it out of this 6.5 gal bucket before I possibly run into an oxidation issue. Bottle and condition in bottle 3-5 weeks? Or Secondary for 2 weeks bottle for 3? Or is it 6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of the other at this point? Clarification (no pun intended) would be very helpful!

(P.S. My flat "green" beer tastes fantastic, looking forward to the finished product)
 
Welcome to the forum! my questions to you ma'am:

1) Why would racking to a secondary cost you $40?
2) How would leaving your beer in primary cause oxidation?


My recommendation is to leave it in primary for 3-4 weeks total, then prime and bottle. Let bottle carb 3-4+ weeks then drink.
 
Welcome to the forum! my questions to you ma'am:

1) Why would racking to a secondary cost you $40?
2) How would leaving your beer in primary cause oxidation?


My recommendation is to leave it in primary for 3-4 weeks, then prime and bottle. Let bottle carb 3-4+ weeks then drink.

Ma'am? Did I mis check something in my profile? I'm a dude! haha. Racking to a secondary would cost me $40 because I'd have to buy a 5 gal glass carboy. I certainly wouldn't attempt it without the proper tool. My primary is a 6.5 gal plastic bucket and there's a large amount of space between the top of the brew and the lid. I have cracked the lid (to take my reading) so its no longer completely anarobic in there.
 
Go ahead and bottle it - I don't even use secondaries any more

Well that's what i Was thinking. WHat is really the difference between racking to a secondary then priming and bottling, and going ahead and bottling, other than more sediment in my bottle. If my FG is correct and no longer dropping there shouldn't be a risk of grenades, right?
 
Ma'am? Did I mis check something in my profile? I'm a dude! haha. Racking to a secondary would cost me $40 because I'd have to buy a 5 gal glass carboy. I certainly wouldn't attempt it without the proper tool. My primary is a 6.5 gal plastic bucket and there's a large amount of space between the top of the brew and the lid. I have cracked the lid (to take my reading) so its no longer completely anarobic in there.


cheaton.jpg



you sir, are a female.

I still say leave it in primary 3 weeks minimum before bottling.
 
The answer is, do you want your beer to taste "great" or just drink it 'cause you are excited???

Whether you choose to secondary or longer primary is ultimately your choice, and you can find arguments and anecdotes on both sides to back up our beliefs...I personally have found my beer is clearer and tastes better after a month in primary.

ANd rather than re-invent the wheel I would encourage you to look at all the almost daily discussions on that topic....search for "No secondary" or "Long Primar" or even look at the similar threads in the similar threads box below...there is PLENTY of info to help you make up youe own mind here already.

But what we all agree with is that not rushing so soon after the beer is "done fermenting" and letting the yeast work their magic and let the flavors meld. We all agree that not bottling right away makes for better tasting and looking beer.

I usually recommend for new brewers who are contemplating racking to secondary to check it after 12 days since you pitched the yeast then again on the 14th day and if the gravity hasn't changed you can then rack.

Or you can do what many of us do and leave the beer in primary for a month to let the yeast finish and clear the beer.

In Mr Wizard's colum in BYO recently he made an interesting analogy about brewing and baking....He said that egg timers are all well and good in the baking process but they only provide a "rule of thumb" as to when something is ready...recipes, oven types, heck even atmospheric conditions, STILL have more bearing on when a cake is ready than the time it says it will be done in the cook book. You STILL have to stick a toothpick in the center and pull it out to see if truly the cake is ready.....otherwise you may end up with a raw cake....

Not too different from our beers....We can have a rough idea when our beer is ready (or use something silly like the 1-2-3 rule (which doesn't factor in things like yeast lag time or even ambient temp during fermentation) and do things to our beer willy nilly....but unless we actually stick "our toothpick" (the hydrometer) in and let it tell us when the yeasties are finished...we too can "f" our beer up.

We forget this simple fact...We are not making koolaid, or chocolate quick, just stirring in and having instant gratification...when you pitch yeast, you are dealing with living micro-organisms...and they have their own timetable, and their own agenda. No recipe can really tell you when a beer is really done.

And just because it is done "fermenting" doesn't mean that the yeast is done doing their job. They are very fastiduous creatures who like to clean up the mess they make during fermentation...the stuff that if you rack too soon can lead to off flavors. That's why a lot of us don't secondary and instead leave our beers alone for 3-4 weeks, then bottle...and only secondary if we are dry hopping, adding fruit, or oak. And even then we usually wait 10-14 days before moving our beer.

So don't be in a rush, this is a patience game, and your patience will be rewarded with great beer.

In fact even John Palmer mentions the benefit of not moving the beer right away.

From How To Brew;

Leaving an ale beer in the primary fermentor for a total of 2-3 weeks (instead of just the one week most canned kits recommend), will provide time for the conditioning reactions and improve the beer. This extra time will also let more sediment settle out before bottling, resulting in a clearer beer and easier pouring. And, three weeks in the primary fermentor is usually not enough time for off-flavors to occur.

and;

From How To Brew

Ales are usually ready to bottle in 2-3 weeks when fermentation has completely finished. There should be few, if any, bubbles coming through the airlock. Although 2-3 weeks may seem like a long time to wait, the flavor won't improve by bottling any earlier. Some books recommend bottling after the bubbling stops or in about 1 week; this is usually bad advice. It is not uncommon for fermentation to stop after 3-4 days and begin again a few days later due to a temperature change. If the beer is bottled before fermentation is complete, the beer will become over-carbonated and the pressure may exceed the bottle strength. Exploding bottles are a disaster (and messy to boot).

So don't be in a hurry to rush the beer....give it the time it needs and you will infitley be rewarded with better beer.

:mug:
 
Ok, I'm not in a rush at all. Honestly. I'm using my hydrometer. I just want to make sure the beer I have now isn't going to get screwed up by leaving it in the bucket for another week or two or three with all of this air space yadda yadda. My OG was 1.040, my FG is supposed to be 1.010 and my current SG is 1.010. If you say I can just leave it in the current plastic bucket I believe you. I was just trying to figure out, considering I'm at my FG, whether or not I should start the conditioning process now, and what conditioning process I should use. So far I've got one vote for bottle, and two for leave it in the bucket.......

P.S. I'm ok with buying a carboy and conditioning that way, but if I don't have to I'm not going to. But I'll wait til next year to drink the stuff. I'm a very casual beer drinker as it is!
 
K Rev, I just thoroughly read your response to me. THanks for the info. I have been reading on here for a couple of days everything I can find on this issue. Instead of helping me make up my mind it has proceeded to concern me.

I guess my question is.... is it safe to leave this 5 gallons of beer in this 6.5 gallon plastic (ale pail) bucket for another 2 weeks after I've popped the top on it once?
 
I guess my question is.... is it safe to leave this 5 gallons of beer in this 6.5 gallon plastic (ale pail) bucket for another 2 weeks after I've popped the top on it once?

I leave mine a month minimum in buckets.....even if I check the grav.

You have to remember that once fermentation comences there is a cushion of co2 protecting your beer...

Besides your ber is much hardier than most new brewers give it credit...

It is very very very hard to ruin your beer it surprises us and manages to survive despite what we do to it.

I want you to read these threads and see.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/has-anyone-ever-messed-up-batch-96644/

And this thread to show you how often even a beer we think is ruined, ends up being the best beer you ever made, if you have patience.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/ne...virtue-time-heals-all-things-even-beer-73254/

Just remember to RDWHAHB, make that your mantra and you will be a successful homebrewer.

:mug:
 
I see, thanks for the response. I was concerned that since I had removed the top that that cushion of Co2 was history. Definitely happy to let it sit there and work some more. I resanitized my lid and airlock, so all should be ok I suppose. (n00bish paranoia! Ain't it grand!)
 
I resanitized my lid and airlock, so all should be ok I suppose. (n00bish paranoia! Ain't it grand!)

You prolly did more than most folks, noob or otherwise would rhink of doing....

Remember, If you brew from fear, you won't make great beer!

You might make drinkable beer, or you might make crap...but until your realize that your beer is much hardier than you think it is, you won't make your beer great.

You just have a typical new brewer fear that your beer is somehow weak, like a new born baby..and will be ruined or die of you look at it wrong...I want to put it into perspective for you, and save you a lot of new bewer nerves...

Beer has been made for over 5,000 years in some horrific conditions, and still it managed to survive and be popular....It was even made before Louis Pasteur understood germ theory....

If beer turned out bad back then more than it turned out good..then beer would have gone the way of the dodo bird, New Coke, or Pepsi Clear...

:mug:
 
Ya that historical data is what keeps my head above water Rev. That and having a wife that has a PhD in Microbiology (who happens to be teaching a class on fermentation processes in food production right now). At this point I wish I could RDWHAHB but I don't have a home brew to relax with!! Anyone have a couple of spares? :p I guess a glass of wine will do.....
 
This thread covered a lot of the same questions that I've been kicking around, with my first batch in the fermentor a week now (IPA).

My initial plan was to bottle after two weeks, then bottle condition for another 2-3. Now I'm more likely to leave it in the primary for about 3, and then go straight to bottle conditioning for another 2.

I've been hesitant to check the gravity, even after two weeks, because like Cheaton I assumed that I'd be dissipating the protective layer of CO2. If fermentation is complete, then no additional CO2 will be generated to protect the beer from oxidation. At least, that is my thought process.

Revvy's replies have made me a little less worried about cracking the fermentor to check the FG. However, in general, it is safe to assume that opening the fermentor to check the SG should only be done if you are fairly confident that fermenation is complete, correct?

Thanks!
 
I use a 10 gallon primary with no airlock; the seal isn't perfect by any stretch. I worry about the "protective layer" of CO2 dissipating every time I open my fermenter to check SG.

My question is: since there is still enough active yeast in the beer to carbonate at bottling, won't there still be enough active yeast in the beer to "clean it up" if it is transferred to a secondary once FG is reached?
 
I guess the point is that you'd rather clean it up in the fermenter than in the bottle. I can say that after putting my lid back on last night my fermenter is definitely anarobic again (full of CO2). Saw a bubble in the airlock about 10 minutes ago. I'm done worring about it. However, I'm definitely going to either bottle or rack this beer next week. I bought a kit today of a holiday brew and want to get to work on that. If I can find a deal on a glass carboy I'll rack it. Otherwise I'm going to bottle it up and let it sit for many a week before drinking. I should say I'm not terribly concerned whether this is a fantastic beer or not. It was just something to help me learn the process. But I definitely want it to be good.....
 
I use a 10 gallon primary with no airlock; the seal isn't perfect by any stretch. I worry about the "protective layer" of CO2 dissipating every time I open my fermenter to check SG.

My question is: since there is still enough active yeast in the beer to carbonate at bottling, won't there still be enough active yeast in the beer to "clean it up" if it is transferred to a secondary once FG is reached?

This is a great couple of questions, both well related.

1) In terms of fluidity and such, carbon dioxide is significantly heavier than standard air (as well as oxygen). Unless you have plenty of fans in the area, or the beer is nearly at the top of the fermenting chamber, you will not run out of CO2 to protect your beer from O2.

2) I have anecdotally heard of people leaving beers in their primaries for 6 months (or more, depending on the original gravity of the beer), and there have been no side effects. If you worry about yeast up until that time, you *generally* are okay. I would give a quick swirl after those 6 months, and then bottle after a couple of days after that. Those are my 2¢, people will correct me if I be wrong :)
 
Cheaton, leave your first beer were it is and just buy another bucket as primary and get brewing that holiday batch. You can buy several primary buckets for the price of one carboy and ferment multiple batches at the same time. You are going to add primaries eventually, you might as well get started buying them now. ;)
 
Cheaton, leave your first beer were it is and just buy another bucket as primary and get brewing that holiday batch. You can buy several primary buckets for the price of one carboy and ferment multiple batches at the same time. You are going to add primaries eventually, you might as well get started buying them now. ;)

Nurmey is right as usual....I have 9 primaries of various sizes...including some former secondaries that since I don't secondary are no primaries.
 
Nurmey is right as usual....I have 9 primaries of various sizes...including some former secondaries that since I don't secondary are no primaries.

+1, all my secondaries are potential primaries, the only time I secondary is to add ingredients, I.E. dry hopping, fruit, etc. I keep adding primaries like oak barrels, 3 gallon buckets, 20 gal barrels, etc, etc.:mug:
 
I see some of you don't have wives. LOL. I'm at the end of my beer budget! But, I have a schedule now to make everything fit. :) :rockin:
 
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