Rack to secondary for high gravity lager- oxydation vs autolysis risks

[josephort]

Conventional wisdom these days seems to be that racking beer to a secondary fermenter isn't necessary because modern yeast aren't at risk of autolysis for a very long time and so oxidation is the bigger concern. For most of my beers, I leave them in the primary vessel for 3ish weeks, cold crash for a few days, and bottle, which works fine.

I've currently got a high gravity lager which has been in primary for 3 weeks, has hit FG, but still tastes pretty"green" or "rough". I'd like to give this one a longer conditioning time- maybe another week at ambient then 1-2 months cold. But at 2-3 months total on the yeast cake, I worry about the possibility of autolysis. On the other hand, this is an intense "special occasion" beer that I plan to drink only occasionally over a period of a year or more, so reducing oxygen exposure seems even more important than normal.

I have three possible courses I'm considering:

1. leave it in the same fermenter for the whole 2-3 months, and don't worry about autolysis.
2. rack to secondary in a week and cold crash off the yeast cake, trying as hard as possible not to splash or introduce oxygen during transfer.
   
3. leave in the primary fermenter but do a faster timeline- maybe a few more days at ambient, then 2-3 weeks cold- and make up for it by conditioning longer in the bottles.

A few other notes, if it makes a difference:

• Yeast is Saflager 34/70, pitched around 50, held below 60 for the first week and then allowed to rise to room temperature for 2 week D rest. So, colder than an ale but warmer than a typical lager.
• Wort was poured directly onto a fresh yeast cake from a lower-gravity lager. This ensured a high cell count, but I had a longer than average lag time which makes me worried they may have started fermentation under a bit of stress.
  
• I don't have an empty carboy I could use for a secondary vessel, so if I rack it will be into a bunch of 1-gallon glass jars. This seems like it would even further increase oxidation risk, both because I'd have to do a bunch of small siphons to transfer and because the jars have plastic lids which may be oxygen permeable

Any advice is appreciated!

 

[jfolks]

I’d go ahead and rack to lagering vessel and lager it for 2-3 months - that should take the rough edges off and is the best case scenario yeast stress/oxidation wise

 

[Jag75]

Was the yeast same temp as the wort?
I wouldn't leave in primary for 3 months but that's just me. If it were me I'd drop the temp everyday about 4 degrees until I got around 36-38 . Then I'd bottle for lagering.

 

[Dland]

Any lager, especially green tasting high gravity, will benefit a lot from lagering at around 34F for a spell. I'd recommend at least 6 weeks, but some of my lagers don't hit their prime until around 8 weeks, maybe more, lagering after cold crash that is.

I'd get it off the old yeast in any case, crash it, lager it. Don't know how you carbonate, but I carb during D rest by spunding, or force carb after crashing. Not sure I'd bother brewing as much as I do without the convenience of of kegs.

I know a lot of people don't have much money to spend on this, but to get the most of your current efforts, it sounds like you should invest in some gear. I'd recommend a corny keg or two, you can get good used ones for less than 50 bucks.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I go one of two ways, both involve getting off the yeast-
1. Add a bit of sugar (about 5 ounces will do it) to wake the yeast up, then transfer to secondary 3-12 hours later. The active yeast should scavenge oxygen if you're careful with your transfer. or
2. Bottle now. Lager them (after they're carbonated) for a few months in the bottles.

 

[josephort]

2. Bottle now. Lager them (after they're carbonated) for a few months in the bottles.

I like this strategy because it's easy, worry-free, and frees up the carboy. But, is it as effective as lagering in a dedicated secondary fermenter? I suppose the size of the vessel shouldn't matter, but if I bottle, carb, and then lager that means the lagering phase gets bumped back several weeks while I wait for carbonation, and then needs to happen under pressure.

 

[blackbeer]

lager it in the bottle

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I like this strategy because it's easy, worry-free, and frees up the carboy. But, is it as effective as lagering in a dedicated secondary fermenter? I suppose the size of the vessel shouldn't matter, but if I bottle, carb, and then lager that means the lagering phase gets bumped back several weeks while I wait for carbonation, and then needs to happen under pressure.

I know a few brewers who lager in bottles and their beer is great. Is it as effective as lagering in a dedicated fermentor? I don't know of any side-by-side experiments to test it, but I don't think it would make a big difference.

Lagering under pressure is not a problem. The only slight downside to bottling then lagering is a bit more sediment in the bottles. The upside is a reduction in oxygenation potential.

 

[TurnipGreen]

I’ve successfully left beers in the primary for three to four months. I forgot about a braggot sitting in the primary for over a year.

That said, just last year I messed up a wheat wine from being in the primary for around six months. I kind of forgot about that one too. Between excessive head space and i’m Pretty sure temperature swings it got really oxidized.

For my needs I plan to keep using just a primary, cold crashing and aging in the bottle. I’ll just pay closer attention to head space for stuff that I bulk age for more that a couple months.

 

[kh54s10]

I would cold crash it to get as much sediment to settle as possible then bottle it. Lager in the bottles. These days the only way I would use a secondary would be with a closed transfer - I have never done it. Haven't done a secondary for 4-5 years and that was adding oak chips and a dry hop there wasn't enough room in the primary fermenter.

 

[McKnuckle]

I have fermented a few lagers in a corny keg with a floating dip tube, and served directly from them without the beer ever seeing the light of day. It works great.

So far I’ve got one sitting for two months with nothing but clean, clear lager goodness. I guess it’s possible that the yeast sediment will impact flavor eventually, but I haven’t experienced it yet.