Questions about March Pumps answered by the Factory!

[DigityDan]

Is it possible to change the bracket over to the 809 style and then add the head? Or is there just now way possible an 809 head is going on the MDXT-3 pump?

If not, is there an MDXT head replacement that is a better applicant for brewing? I know others have used it, but the material is different from the 809 and I purchased this pump used. I have no idea what the previous owner used it for. Do I need to worry about anything leeching out of the plastic?

 

[fpweeks]

Got any photos? and what's you cleaning schedule after brew day?

Hot water and PBW.
The pump always works fine at the start of brew day. I usually make it through an hour of recycle through my HERMS. It generally seizes up during my sparge.

When I pull the volute apart there is nothing that has impeded the impeller. I pull the impeller and put it back together and it works like a champ.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Walter
OVer the past few brew sessions i have had my pump sieze up during use. I pull the head and pull the impeller and put back together and then all is right in the world.......allowing me to finish my brew session. The problem is my pump is hard plumbed in my system and its a pain in the arse to do this during the middle of the brew.

Suggestions?

Mike

Is it actually seizing up or is the impeller de-coupling or even sucking in air off the bottom of the vessel and cavitating if you are at /near boiling?
If it is indeed seizing up then you most likely have a very tight tolerance between the shaft and the impeller....either from a sugar buildup (soak the impeller in hot water and use a small bristle brush to clean out the center hole) or you may have an impeller on the tight side of tolerance, in which case you can take a 17/64" drill bit and ream out the hole a little bigger. If you have letter drill bit at your disposal then a better bit to use would be a "G" size drill bit.
Also when you have the pump apart make sure the Teflon thrust washer is still there....it sits on the shaft between the impeller and the front inlet housing....

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Hot water and PBW.
The pump always works fine at the start of brew day. I usually make it through an hour of recycle through my HERMS. It generally seizes up during my sparge.

When I pull the volute apart there is nothing that has impeded the impeller. I pull the impeller and put it back together and it works like a champ.

Drill it with the 17/64" drill bit (or the "G" if you have one) and you should have no more problems and make sure the thrust washer is there..

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Is it possible to change the bracket over to the 809 style and then add the head? Or is there just now way possible an 809 head is going on the MDXT-3 pump?

If not, is there an MDXT head replacement that is a better applicant for brewing? I know others have used it, but the material is different from the 809 and I purchased this pump used. I have no idea what the previous owner used it for. Do I need to worry about anything leeching out of the plastic?

Short answer...yes the 809 stuff will fit the MDX motor...

Longer answer...you could change the motor bracket and install the 809 pump head.....you would also need to transfer the 809 drive magnet as the MDX is bigger and wont fit in the 809 motor bracket... the pump head outlet "MAY" be cocked different then what it would come on the standard 809....some motors have different bolt patterns to align the outlets the way we need them....so even through it would fit on the MDX motor...the outlet may be slightly off...I wouldn't know for sure unless I tried to put one together on that motor....if you already have the parts then you have nothing to loose

 

[mrjofus1959]

Hello Walter -

I'm working on some plumbing changes on my brewing setup, and one of the things I'm looking at is having a valve that would allow me to supply fresh water from the faucet directly to the center inlet of my 815 SS pump. The pump would not be turned on and its output would feed the input of my HLT. Is there any risk of damaging the pump under those conditions? I wouldn't think so but the impeller and therefore motor would be turning faster than under normal power on operating conditions. So I thought I'd check just to be safe.

Thanks!

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

you wont harm anything with the city water pressure going through the pump.....it may de-couple the mag drive, but as soon as everything comes back down to a stop it will re-align again and you should be back in business....The metal pumps are rated for 150psi of internal pressure....most city water systems are between 35-80psi depending on how close tot he transfer station you are.

 

[DiscDoc]

Walter
I'm setting up an electric brewery using either 20 or 30 gallon kettle/MT/HLT. What is the difference between the 815-ss-c and the H350. Any recommendations. Thank you.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Its basically the same pump....we make a special assembly for Morebeer...it has a 6' cord with a plug on the end....if you were to order the standard 815 from our distributors you would get the pump with no plug on the end of the cord and they are only 3' long...

 

[ekjohns]

not sure if this has been asked but what is the average life span of the 809 pump? I am looking to use it to recirculate for sous vide which would require me running the pump for 48 non-stop at 145F. I would assume that using the pump for a few hours every other week to brew and 2 days non-stop maybe once a month, the pump would still last years but just want to make sure.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

All the pumps we make (including the beer) are designed for 24/7 operation. When everything is plumbed correctly (proper size tubing fittings etc) and there's nothing out of the ordinary attacking the pump (like chemicals or abrasives etc) the pump head will usually outlast the motor....the motors we are told have an average life of 3-5 years running 24/7 with no maint. If you take care of it and oil it once a year, don't drop it or drop something on it etc....they will last a good long time. I have an 809-HS in the test lab on a life test right now that's been running 24/7 for almost 8yrs now. We are going to change the motor on Monday due to an electrical spike we had on Wed that fried it....but the pump head will remain untouched with the new motor/old pump head combo will continue to be run until something else fails. Our pumps do not get shut off other then when we have power failures or if we do sound test.

 

[ekjohns]

That should last me forever then. What do you mean by oil it? Do you have a link on the best way to do this?

Thanks again

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Not all the pump motors need to be oiled....if you look at the white motor label...on the ones that do need to be oiled you will find it says "OIL" with two arrows pointing to the end caps of the motor. On the ends you will find a hole and if you look down the hole it will have a small channel that leads to the center sleeve bearing.....you put 3-4 drops of any kind of 3-in-1 oil or a light weight machine oil for like sewing machines....easy

 

[photogscott]

Morebeer systems don't shield the pumps from the environment such as water splashing. I'm sure occasional drops of water make it into the vent holes of the body. Should I rig some sort of shield over the pumps?

Another note: Occasional flow stoppage was messing up my brew day and Morebeer sent me a new pump which didn't fix the problem. On my own I learned that slightly choking off the flow after the exit eliminated all pump "failure" I think Williams Brewing sells stainless heads that have the output diameter smaller than the input to insure pumps aren't starved of liquid-the cause of all my problems.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

Shielding the pumps is a personal choice.....small splashing here and there will not hurt anything...getting it soak will! These are induction motors...they work off of magnetism...what's more common for these types of motors is to have rust lock up the motor or if you spill sticky stuff on it that it binds the motor up. There have been a few motors we got back that were locked up due to spilled beer all over them.....and i got them working again by spraying them down with an electrical de-greaser to get it moving again then lube it up with 3-in-1 oil and back in business.

As for your second issue....what more then likely is happening is that you are pulling air bubbles off the bottom of you brew pot and once they hit the pump head, it cavitates it. When you choke off the outlet of the pump, you slow down the velocity of the liquid going into the pump....less likely-hood of sucking in air....

 

[insanim8er]

I just acquired a march pump. It was sold to me as an 815, but the sticker says:

809 H S
Ass'y 815

Can you explain what I have? Is it an 809 High speed at 7.5gal or the 815 at 8gal?

Also, it's a plastic head with center outlet. Where can I get the stainless steel head? I'm not finding it anywhere for sale when doing a search.

 

[photogscott]

As for your second issue....what more then likely is happening is that you are pulling air bubbles off the bottom of you brew pot and once they hit the pump head, it cavitates it. When you choke off the outlet of the pump, you slow down the velocity of the liquid going into the pump....less likely-hood of sucking in air....

My problem at the time was with 170 water. float valves turn the pump on and off. In the middle of the process it would stop moving water. The folks at Morebeer were mystified, replacing a pump. After I told them what I did, they used the word "starving" the pump. Is this in your glossary at work?
Anyways its an old story now because my pumps both work flawlessly.

They use a stainless T with an extra "dump" valve on the outflow. This makes for instant priming!

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

My problem at the time was with 170 water. float valves turn the pump on and off. In the middle of the process it would stop moving water. The folks at Morebeer were mystified, replacing a pump. After I told them what I did, they used the word "starving" the pump. Is this in your glossary at work?
Anyways its an old story now because my pumps both work flawlessly.

They use a stainless T with an extra "dump" valve on the outflow. This makes for instant priming!

Yes it is in the "glossary of terms" but that usually only happens if you have less restriction on the outlet side of the pump then what coming in...either from too small a line or too many elbows/fittings etc....

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

I think i may start a new thread for "Questions Answered by the Factory" For 2014.....may be easier to start fresh then look through 500+ postings

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

I just acquired a march pump. It was sold to me as an 815, but the sticker says:

809 H S
Ass'y 815

Can you explain what I have? Is it an 809 High speed at 7.5gal or the 815 at 8gal?

Also, it's a plastic head with center outlet. Where can I get the stainless steel head? I'm not finding it anywhere for sale when doing a search.

You do have the 815 pump.....those are older stickers we used so they are still out there labeled like that.....no worries
The stainless head for the 809/815 are all the same...just call any distributor and ask for part# 0809-0150-0000
you can re-use all the old parts from the pump you have other then the o-ring...they are different between the plastic and metal housings....thats part# 0809-0165-1000

hope that helps

 

[insanim8er]

You do have the 815 pump.....those are older stickers we used so they are still out there labeled like that.....no worries
The stainless head for the 809/815 are all the same...just call any distributor and ask for part# 0809-0150-0000
you can re-use all the old parts from the pump you have other then the o-ring...they are different between the plastic and metal housings....thats part# 0809-0165-1000

hope that helps

perfect, thanks

 

[30Bones]

Did not find this searching this thread.

Just bought 2 new March 815PL pumps off this site.

I read conflicting information on MPT or NPT threads. Either way Austin HB states

The March Pump also requires two 1/2" NPT couplings. One is for the "in" connection, and one is for the "out" connection. To avoid damaging the pump head, the use of polypropylene couplings is recommended because threading metal fittings onto the pump head can damage the pump's threads. See the options below.

How many do this? I figured once I mount a valve on the output and whatever quick release coupling on the input the chances of me taking them off again would be slim?? Kinda screws me into buying more fittings. $20 in these adapters, then a 1/2' female spud to get a valve back on there. It's only $$ right?

 

[mattd2]

Did not find this searching this thread.

Just bought 2 new March 815PL pumps off this site.

I read conflicting information on MPT or NPT threads. Either way Austin HB states

How many do this? I figured once I mount a valve on the output and whatever quick release coupling on the input the chances of me taking them off again would be slim?? Kinda screws me into buying more fittings. $20 in these adapters, then a 1/2' female spud to get a valve back on there. It's only $$ right?

I wouldn't bother, just make sure to not cross thread the plastic threads with the SS fittings otherwise you will "cut" an new thread into it and that will be a female dog!
Plus even if you do you can get a replacement head for only $25 - http://www.tescopumps.com/servlet/the-223/809-PL-Kit-|/Detail

By the way MPT = Male NPT

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

They are only recommending the adapters so your not screwing a metal fitting onto plastic..Many people tend to over tighten the fittings or not start the threads properly and cross thread them.....as long as you take your time....put a few wraps of Teflon tape on the threads....turn the fitting your installing backwards on the threads till you feel it "click or fall down" on the starting thread and then tighten it up hand tight (no need to crank it down like the hulk) you will be fine.

 

[30Bones]

They are only recommending the adapters so your not screwing a metal fitting onto plastic..Many people tend to over tighten the fittings or not start the threads properly and cross thread them.....as long as you take your time....put a few wraps of Teflon tape on the threads....turn the fitting your installing backwards on the threads till you feel it "click or fall down" on the starting thread and then tighten it up hand tight (no need to crank it down like the hulk) you will be fine.

Thanks, That was my plan and glad to get some positive feedback. Excited to use all these new gadgets after years of extract, and not even a year of AG under my belt and I am diving head first into this

 

[MaltyHops]

Hi Guys,

Have been having a discussion with Walter on pump enclosures that I thought might be handy for other 809 owners to know.

Here's my pump doghouse , btw.

Cheers,
Tom.

We do make them in both versions (sleeve and ball bearing) most of the slow speed motors are sleeve and the "HS" or high speed models are the ball bearing...but thats not to say they cant be sleeve as it depends on where the motors are made sometimes....
But they all do have the thermal overload built in so no need to worry about the motors overheating

Thank you, Walter.

This is interesting ... in my original 809 enclosure, I put a glass spirit thermometer next to the motor body and I was reading temperatures around 75C(167F)-80C(176F) when I was recirculating hot wort without any thermal shutoff. Perhaps I was not measuring the motor surface temperature properly.

In any case, I didn't like the fact the 809 motor seemed to be getting that hot so decided to not use the pump much until I've done something like a new, more open enclosure.

Do you know if there are 809 models both with and without sleeve bearings? Mine does but I can imagine brewers on our forum may have 809 pumps of varying ages so that some might not have sleeve bearing - in which case, can they rrun their 809s in a similar manner until thermal cutoff?

Anyways, thanks again Walter.

Cheers,
Tom.

According to our motor vendor the motors have an internal thermal overload of around 205* internal temp....that usually translates to about 150*F on the surface of the motor....they say as long as the motor is not tripping the thermal overload when operating, you can run it hot like that as long as you like. They do recommend oiling the sleeve bearing (if you have that version) twice a year if its run like that....just an fyi...

 

[mtbiker278]

I got a new March 815 for the holiday. I have a couple questions about using it. Typically when brewing don't bother keeping anything out of the fermenter. Anything that goes into the boil kettle ends up in the fermenter. Are there any concerns with pumping wort that contains pellet hops, pumpkin, or spices (orange peel/coriander)? Obviously want to avoid whole hops and plugs, but I only use those for dryhopping.

How necessary is it to have an enclosure for the pump?

What about wiring in a switch to turn the pump off/on? Right now I'm using a power/strip, but I'm not sure it's meant to be used as such.

Thanks for the help!

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

I got a new March 815 for the holiday. I have a couple questions about using it. Typically when brewing don't bother keeping anything out of the fermenter. Anything that goes into the boil kettle ends up in the fermenter. Are there any concerns with pumping wort that contains pellet hops, pumpkin, or spices (orange peel/coriander)? Obviously want to avoid whole hops and plugs, but I only use those for dryhopping.

Most times particles going through the pump will just pass right through...but if you get one big enough or a big bunch of them at the same time going through and binding up the impeller you can decouple the pump.....then your stuck taking the pump apart too clean it all out.

How necessary is it to have an enclosure for the pump?

That depends on how messy you are....if you dont spill anything then its not necessary.

What about wiring in a switch to turn the pump off/on? Right now I'm using a power/strip, but I'm not sure it's meant to be used as such.

A power switch is just personal preference, not 100% required but its more convenient

Thanks for the help!

 

[mtbiker278]

Thanks for the info! I'm looking forward to not having to lift 10+ gallons of water in a cooler anymore. Using it to vorlauf and recirculate for chilling is just a plus.

I tried looking up on the website, but didn't find any info regarding the max current draw. I assume it's less than 15A, but just wanted to double check. Thinking about getting a foot activated switch and wanted to make sure it'll be rated for the current draw.

Thanks again!

 

[mtbiker278]

Scratch that, just found it in the manual....who would look there.....

1.4A at 115v is the draw just in case anyone else wanted to know.

 

[dunnry]

I have a March 815. It was originally bought with the plastic (polypropylene) inline head. On 1 or 2 occasions it cavitated and made the horrible screeching sound for 1 or 2 secs before I shut it down. This is for history in case it impacts what is currently happening. Cavitation did not happen a lot - only a few times until I got the hang of priming it.

Now, I purchased a Chugger stainless in-line head and replaced the plastic head. Now I have a Chugger/March pump. That was about a year ago. In that time, I have never heard it cavitate until recently. It is now showing the following issues:

1. The pump now cavitates on SHUT DOWN. That is, it makes that horrible noise as I turn it off - so, it means the pump, which is clearly pumping liquid out is somehow able to cavitate as I turn it off. How is this possible?

2. The pump sometimes no longer 'engages' when I turn it on. That is, nothing comes out of the pump. If I turn it on/off a few times, it suddenly engages and pumps just fine (until I turn it off, then see #1).

Is this an issue with the March body or the Chugger head? How is the cavitation possible on shutdown? And finally, why does the pump not engage sometimes?

Thanks!

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

dunnry, well....i have been reprimanded for speaking about "the other guys" pumps on the forum so for now any issues with their stuff you would need to ask them about it.

But, what i can tell you is for the engaging issue, "they" may have a different number of magnetic poles on the impeller magnets and are not fully lining up with our drive magnet....either that or if you took the drive magnet off the shaft of the motor at any time, you may not have it set correctly and the magnetic strength is not 100% there. On our pumps if you take the pump head off the motor bracket, the drive magnet should be spaced 1/16" below the face of the motor bracket.

If it was our pump i would also suggest you take the unit apart and verify the Teflon thrust washer is still on the shaft and keeping the impeller from rubbing up against the pump housing and that the impeller spins nice a freely on the shaft

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

one last thing....are you pumping at near boiling temps?
you may be pulling air off the bottom of the kettle and into the pump....thus the cavitation type results when in fact its not cavitating due to any plumbing/restriction issue.

 

[dunnry]

one last thing....are you pumping at near boiling temps?
you may be pulling air off the bottom of the kettle and into the pump....thus the cavitation type results when in fact its not cavitating due to any plumbing/restriction issue.

Thanks for your input. I will investigate a couple options. As for temp - this pump is used to recirculate water in the HLT (I have electric HERMS setup). So, the max temp here is around 168F for mashout. The water is in no way boiling if that is what you mean.

 

[dunnry]

dunnry, well....i have been reprimanded for speaking about "the other guys" pumps on the forum so for now any issues with their stuff you would need to ask them about it.

But, what i can tell you is for the engaging issue, "they" may have a different number of magnetic poles on the impeller magnets and are not fully lining up with our drive magnet....either that or if you took the drive magnet off the shaft of the motor at any time, you may not have it set correctly and the magnetic strength is not 100% there. On our pumps if you take the pump head off the motor bracket, the drive magnet should be spaced 1/16" below the face of the motor bracket.

If it was our pump i would also suggest you take the unit apart and verify the Teflon thrust washer is still on the shaft and keeping the impeller from rubbing up against the pump housing and that the impeller spins nice a freely on the shaft

Totally understand - thank you very much for your insight here, it really helps!

My understanding of how the March pump heads work (assuming I put the original March head back on) is that cavitation damage can only occur in the head - never in the body. So, even if my original head was damaged slightly in cavitations, any replacement head would not be impacted (i.e. the body is not damaged during cavitation). Is this correct?

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

it depends on the severity of the cavitation...but most times its limited to the impeller itself....but i have seen it damage the pump head itself too...but its rare. most times the impeller gets seized onto the shaft from lack of lubrication....and most times you can just drill it out with a 17/64" drill bit and be back on your way

 

[dunnry]

Checked the impeller - it seems to spin just fine. I will try to figure out the engaging issue a bit more with magnet line up.

As for the cavitation - this washer looks damaged, right?

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

i see no pic...

 

[dunnry]

Image fixed (kinda). Seems awfully big - need to resize that.

 

[WalterAtMarchPump]

honestly i don't know what that is....we don't have anything like that on the back side of the impeller housing at all. Here's what our thrust washers look like (see below) and its between the front housing and the impeller. Its that white ring sitting on the impeller shaft