Quad vs. Strong Dark

[fatnoah]

What is the difference between a belgian quad and a belgian strong dark ale? I know that it can be tough to differentiate hard and fast distinct styles within belgian beers, but I am curious about this one.

 

[Nateo]

In the real world, there isn't a difference. In the BJCP world: "Authentic Trappist versions tend to be drier (Belgians would say “more digestible&#8221 than Abbey versions, which can be rather sweet and full-bodied. Higher bitterness is allowable in Abbey-style beers with a higher FG. Barleywine-type beers (e.g., Scaldis/Bush, La Trappe Quadrupel, Weyerbacher QUAD) and Spiced/Christmas-type beers (e.g., N’ice Chouffe, Affligem Nöel) should be entered in the Belgian Specialty Ale category (16E), not this category. "

 

[signpost]

I've wondered about this as well. I'm sure there have to be more HBT-ers around here with some experience with Belgian style beers to give some distinctions.

Does it have to do with OG/ABV? Is the the Quad moniker given to beers at the high end of the BJCP range for Dark Strong Ales (OG: 1.075 – 1.110)? That is a wide range. The DSA I'm prepping to brew in a month or so will be on the lower end of that (just over 1.080).

Is the difference based on the perception that if a Dubbel is good, a Trippel must be better and, of course, a Quad must be the best? In other words, does it just sound cool to call it a Quad? Calling it a Dark Strong Ale is more descriptive, but possibly a little more boring and less eye-catching.

Is there some flavor specific difference? Certain ingredients typical in one that are not common in the other?

I haven't read Brew Like A Monk yet (I plan to, but just haven't gotten to it). Is there anything in that book that gives some insight related to possible distinctions?

 

[MisterTipsy]

Semantics are confusing.

A strong dark can be a quad. It can also be a dubbel. I've never seen a triple that was dark, but they might exist. Most triples I've seen are golden to amber.

I've always thought the differences between dubbel, triple and quad are most closely correlated with their degree alcohol content while being Belgian style.

 

[dinnerstick]

i vote that the difference is semantics. that and that there are no 'belgian dark strong' beers in the lowlands, that's a bjcp category. but also there are very few beers labeled as quadrupel, and they are (imo) similar enough to things like st bernardus abt 12 (my favorite of the bunch) to call them brothers. some of these things i find off the wall with crazy phenolics and weird esters (eg grimbergen optimo bruno) but maybe that's just me.

 

[MisterTipsy]

I have consumed plenty of Belgian beers. As far as I can tell:

Dubbels are amber to dark and 6-7%. Trippels are golden to amber with 7-9%. Quads are above 9% and are amber to dark.

I have no idea if this is universal, just my personal experience from drinking a lot of Belgian beers.

 

[biochemedic]

Of course it's all semantics, but my take on the situation is that there is not actually a BJCP category for "Belgian Quadrupel." There is a Dubbel (18B) and Tripel (18C) categories, so my take has always been that the "quads" would fit more in to the next two categories, Strong Golden (18D) and Strong Dark (18E) ales (depending on their color).

While I get the point that the Belgian Specialty category (16E) specifically mentions "Trappist Quadrupel" as a style that falls within it's walls, I think that the Quad I'm currently brewing fits pretty well in the Strong Dark descriptor and statistics too... Category 16E is almost as much of a wastebasket category as Category 23 is... Perhaps I'll enter my quad in both 16E and 18E and see how it does respectively...

 

[Ghostly]

I'll throw out some thoughts based on half-forgotten things I've read, just so someone more studied can refute me. The dubbel/tripel/quad designations tended to refer to quantities of grain (barrels, maybe?). This roughly correlates to ABV, but not exactly, since sugar is also used in high quantities. Tripel is the outlier because Westmalle developed that one to be pale and others followed suit. Otherwise, dark beers were the tradition. Belgians didn't brew to style, they brewed to regional tastes, so it's hard to nail them down the way BJCP tries to. Abbey ales or strong dark ales can be absolutely identical to trappist ales (like St Bernardus), they just can't have the trappist designation. In general, many Belgians believe drier beers are better for digestion than sweet beers, across the board, so most are actually drier than you'd think. Okay, now look it up for yourself so you can see all the stuff I got wrong.

 

[Nateo]

Quad is a made up term. Enkel, dubbel, trippel are real. Quadrupel is the next logical step, but it's a step the monks never made. Their beer was typically referred to by the original extract, hence Rochefort 8, Bernardus 12, etc. They used some weird units for it, which is why the numbers don't correlate to *P or anything like that. So if you want to sound like a cool guy, figure out the Belgian extract numbers and just call your beer by the number.

I've never seen a beer described as a "quad" that would fit under category 18D. 18E is a pretty specific category. If it tastes more like a La Trappe than Chimay Blue, it should go in 16E. Most American versions of "quads" I've had should go in 16E.

 

[signpost]

Quad is a made up term. Enkel, dubbel, trippel are real. Quadrupel is the next logical step, but it's a step the monks never made. Their beer was typically referred to by the original extract, hence Rochefort 8, Bernardus 12, etc. They used some weird units for it, which is why the numbers don't correlate to *P or anything like that. So if you want to sound like a cool guy, figure out the Belgian extract numbers and just call your beer by the number.

So, if Quad is a made up term and the units they used to arrive at the number designations are 'weird', can I just make up a number that seems fitting when naming/labeling my own brews? Heh. I say, Yes!

Also, I just ordered a copy of Brew Like A Monk today. Should have it soon. Not sure that will have any direct bearing on this thread, but hey I'm excited to get the book.

Here is another question/speculation - with the semantic vagueries of the Quad moniker, what do you think the % breakdown would be between brewers/beer drinkers that know it is a made up term but think it sounds cool vs. those that think it is a real/legitimate and innovative new style?

 

[944play]

Their beer was typically referred to by the original extract, hence Rochefort 8, Bernardus 12, etc. They used some weird units for it, which is why the numbers don't correlate to *P or anything like that.

It's 100(OG - 1).

(eg, Rochefort 8's OG is 1.080)

 

[chuckstout]

It's 100(OG - 1).

(eg, Rochefort 8's OG is 1.080)

That just looks to simple, so i imagine it must be right.

 

[Nateo]

Yeah, that's how you figure out "Belgian degrees." The recipes change over time, but the numbers stay the same, so there's a bit of rounding going on.

(From Brew Like a Monk)
Achel Blond 8 - 1.078
Rochefort 6 - 1.072
Rochefort 8 - 1.078
Rochefort 10 - 1.096
Westvleteren 8 - 1.072
Westvleteren 12 - 1.090 (thought I've read it's actually lower than that)

Quad = barleywine-type beer. All of the domestic Quads I've drank have much more in common, flavorwise, with barleywines than with Chimay blue, Bernardus 12, Rochefort 10, etc.

 

[biochemedic]

Also, I just ordered a copy of Brew Like A Monk today. Should have it soon. Not sure that will have any direct bearing on this thread, but hey I'm excited to get the book.

An excellent book, to be sure, and you'll learn a whole lot about Belgian brews, and how to brew them from that source!

 

[signpost]

Yeah, that's how you figure out "Belgian degrees." The recipes change over time, but the numbers stay the same, so there's a bit of rounding going on.

(From Brew Like a Monk)
Achel Blond 8 - 1.078
Rochefort 6 - 1.072
Rochefort 8 - 1.078
Rochefort 10 - 1.096
Westvleteren 8 - 1.072
Westvleteren 12 - 1.090 (thought I've read it's actually lower than that)

Quad = barleywine-type beer. All of the domestic Quads I've drank have much more in common, flavorwise, with barleywines than with Chimay blue, Bernardus 12, Rochefort 10, etc.

Wow, thanks for the information.

I'm sure that will be my new favorite book once it gets here (unfortunately, Amazon is taking their time shipping it).

 

[chuckstout]

Yeah thanks Nateo, i think im going to work that into my labels as i was at a loss for the style