Starter for Belgian Quad?

[danb35]

I'm planning to brew a Belgian Quad following The Electric Brewery's recipe, though scaled to a 5-gal batch and to match my efficiency. That recipe is supposed to result in an OG of 1.096, and it calls for WLP530 yeast. Brewfather's yeast calculator in turn calls for a 4.2L starter using 14.5 oz of DME with one packet of WLP530. All straightforward enough as far as it goes, and I don't really have a problem doing that. But...

A video I watched recently indicated that yeast pitch rates should be considerably lower for styles that depend on the yeast for their flavor, specifically mentioning Weizens and Belgian styles. And that has me wondering if I should scale back the starter. I doubt I should eliminate it entirely given the OG, but what are your thoughts on reducing it? Or should I just go for the large one?

 

[JohnSand]

I've brewed a Belgian Strong, and I don't think I used a starter with 530. But that beer had sugar feedings after starting with a lower OG. I too have read that underpitching increases yeast flavor, and works well with some styles. Mine worked out well.

 

[Steverus07]

I’ve got a quad fermenting now with 530 and I’ve had success on a previous batch with just Fermaid K. My OG last time was much lower but this time is 1.085 and 530 is still going strong (presently at 1.016).

Personally I’m impatient and I’d probably have done a starter if I’d had my act together. This much alcohol presents a stressful situation for yeast and while that may drive up yeast-derived character I don’t view that as super fundamental to a good quad.

 

[rmr9]

I would still make a starter so you don’t run into serious off flavor issues like fusel alcohols. If you still want to stress the yeast a bit I would say whip up a 2 liter starter instead of a 4 liter. That’s a very high OG for a single vial of yeast that may not even be 100% viable.

 

[MicroMickey]

You might consider brewing a smaller beer first to build a yeast colony. Once the first beer is racked into another vessel for finishing, start your Quad and use the previous yeast cake for the ferment. It's been done this way for years.

 

[beren]

I would still make a starter so you don’t run into serious off flavor issues like fusel alcohols. If you still want to stress the yeast a bit I would say whip up a 2 liter starter instead of a 4 liter. That’s a very high OG for a single vial of yeast that may not even be 100% viable.

I made a starter but a 1l not 2l, for my 1.08 tripel and it had a lot of sulphur and fusels. It didn’t help that the pitched temp was 75 and the yeast took off so fast it warmed, and didn’t really come down on its own to ambient until the ferment was almost done. Lots of small things can add up to a rough beer. It’s 9 months old and not bad but I still don’t care for the final flavor much.

 

[DuncB]

As per @MicroMickey
This thread I started a few days ago backs up the small beer theory. Using WLP 530

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/thread...ching-onto-a-yeast-cake.728857/#post-10296060

 

[Bobo1898]

You might consider brewing a smaller beer first to build a yeast colony. Once the first beer is racked into another vessel for finishing, start your Quad and use the previous yeast cake for the ferment. It's been done this way for years.

I've had great success with this when I brew higher gravity beers.

However, when it comes to Belgians and particularly 530 or 3787, I have overpitched before and suppressed that yeast character you want. Rather than throw it directly on the cake, I open ferment for a few days and harvest/top crop the lower gravity batch and set aside in a mason jar. I'll prop that up when I brew it in a starter.

If you're using a fermenter with a neck that doesn't allow top cropping, I imagine you can just let the beer ferment out and then harvest some after you rack off.

 

[MicroMickey]

Some time back I found a ferment regimen for Westmalle Tripel.
pitch @ 64f (18c) and let rise to 68f (20c) over 5 - 6 days.
secondary 4 weeks @ 46f (8c)

The Westmalle dubbel is the same except the secondary is 3 weeks @ 46f (8c).

 

[danb35]

Thanks for all the feedback on this. I'm wondering about one thing, though:

You might consider brewing a smaller beer first to build a yeast colony.

This sounds an awful lot like "making a starter," with the exception of not pouring it down the drain once you've let the yeast settle. Is there a non-obvious difference?

 

[MicroMickey]

Thanks for all the feedback on this. I'm wondering about one thing, though:

This sounds an awful lot like "making a starter," with the exception of not pouring it down the drain once you've let the yeast settle. Is there a non-obvious difference?

I don't mean making a smaller volume beer but a SMALL BEER. A beer with an OG of 1.035 - 1.045 would do the trick. That way, you've got a beer to drink and a starter also.

 

[beren]

So, no. No difference other than an overpitch amount of slurry

 

[DuncB]

Thanks for all the feedback on this. I'm wondering about one thing, though:

This sounds an awful lot like "making a starter," with the exception of not pouring it down the drain once you've let the yeast settle. Is there a non-obvious difference?

Have a look at what I did for my tripel in the thread I linked above. You wouldn't want to drink a starter, it will be oxidised and not good. Small beer such as my Tafelbier was only 1.025 but stronger beer will work equally well.

 

[rmr9]

I think you’d want a healthy pitch for a 1.096 beer all the same. I had a dubbel that got great efficiency and treaded into quad territory and I ended up under pitching by a lot. It was nearly undrinkable. Even with a large pitch you’ll still get good yeast character, but without the off flavors.

 

[Climb]

I recommend going with the 4 L stater or brew a small beer first as suggested. Once you have this batch as a base line, you can then play with lower pitch rates if desired of future batches to see the flavor impact it may have. Good luck!

 

[whoaru99]

Made a 5gal batch of Midwest's Northy 12 and used one 11g packet of BE-256. A sample during transfer from fermenter to corny tasted fine to me and should be pretty decent finished product.

 

[danb35]

I recommend going with the 4 L stater

This is pretty much what I've settled on. I like the idea of the small beer, but I don't think that timing will work for me in this case.

 

[DuncB]

My tafelbier starting at 1.024 fermented in 2 days, more yeast in that I reckon than a 4 litre starter. No vessel to clean either as transfer out and transfer in.
But a starter will work just not drinkable!