Problem with new Riptide Pump

[brick_haus]

{just thinking out loud}
I wonder if the seizing impeller issue is an effect of the closer tolerance required between the impeller and shaft to keep the pump as quiet as it is? Then, will increasing the side
play as required to keep the impeller moving make the pump louder?

 

[Mirilis]

All I can say is my impeller seized because the magnet (barrel mounted to shaft) was not concentric to the motor shaft. Because of that it would j up and not spin sometimes. I have a video snippit of before and after their customer service (which is great) solved my issue

 

[mbg]

I haven't tried my pump yet (waiting on fittings). I waited about 2-1/2 months so hope it's the new design. I didn't look at it close but think the impeller is dark brown. It had holes between the vanes probably to help with cavitation but two of the holes were blind holes I had to use a nail to clean the flash out. Again, I'm like others, use to Blichmann superior quality and this should not have been missed.

From this description does it sound like I have the new design?

Thanks
Mike

 

[sillbeer]

I haven't tried my pump yet (waiting on fittings). I waited about 2-1/2 months so hope it's the new design. I didn't look at it close but think the impeller is dark brown. It had holes between the vanes probably to help with cavitation but two of the holes were blind holes I had to use a nail to clean the flash out. Again, I'm like others, use to Blichmann superior quality and this should not have been missed.

From this description does it sound like I have the new design?

Thanks
Mike

The impellers on both of my pumps are black and do not have the holes drilled in them. The QC sticker on the bottom of my pumps both say 2017-02-03. I plan on brewing next Sunday and will run boiling wort through my CFC to sanitize and will report back.

 

[mbg]

The impellers on both of my pumps are black and do not have the holes drilled in them. The QC sticker on the bottom of my pumps both say 2017-02-03. I plan on brewing next Sunday and will run boiling wort through my CFC to sanitize and will report back.

My impeller is definitely dark brown. Looks like the one on the Blichmann web page. The date is 2017-02-08. Maybe I'll call them - didn't want to think I waited for 2-1/2 months to get the old impeller design.

Mike

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I used my Rip Tide first time yesterday. It worked ok during the mash. But when I tried to recirculate the boil it took four times to get it where I thought it was pumping. Then I went back to cleaning kegs. Went back to check on the pump and it wasn't pumping any thing. Took it apart and the impeller was stuck to the shaft. The part of the impeller that has the stainless around it had swelled up and locked it to the shaft. It didn't swell up any where else so I found a drill bit that fit the hole on the impeller end and drilled out the hole until it spun free. By the time I got it fixed the boil had cooled down to 165. I didn't feel like heating it back up so did my whirlpool from there. The pump worked ok the rest of the day. I will have to boil some water and see if it is going to swell up some more before brewing again.
tracer Tom

You just voided your warranty

 

[Brewbuzzard]

My new riptide did same think. Squeal and stop pumping during boil. Took head off... impeller was stuck to shaft from the heat expanding everything.

I've had problems with Blickmann products in the past and didn't receive any help from them, just excuses.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

Well, my experience has been the complete opposite. I recirculate through my counterflow chiller right at flameout (or element off, as I brew with electric) and have never run into this.

What I think may be happening is people are trying to recirculate *while still boiling*. Not only is there no need for this at all, when the wort is on the verge of boiling any reduction in pressure will result in steam bubbles and cavitation. I'm thinking the pump head is full of steam bubbles, which leads to a lack of lubrication (the wort/water) around the impeller and shaft, which leads to stuck impellers.

They advertise 250 degrees. However, I always stop the boil and let the wort calm down before I Whirlpool. I don't have a riptide just the chugger and a steelhead. I don't buy Blickmann products anymore.

 

[Smellyglove]

I had a lid where the handle came off. They sent me a new lid around half the globe right away.. No excuses just great customer care.

 

[caseyodell]

Blichmann should jump on this issue. I was going to purchase a Riptide but will not hold off. thank you for the information.

 

[Mad Scientist]

Blichmann should jump on this issue. I was going to purchase a Riptide but will not hold off. thank you for the information.

Blichmann is on it....John Blichmann responded early in this thread, but that doesn't help the fact that I have been waiting on a new pump for more than a month and a half.

 

[mikej55]

Ordered my riptide 7/21/2017 and it arrived days later.
The first thing I noticed when I disassembled to clean it was a a metal shaving attached at the end of the bleed valve.
I was able to bend it back and forth till it broke off.

I've used it once to recirculate my mash (up to 170 degrees f) and it cavitated a couple times. Nowhere close to boiling. The stamp at the bottom of the pump says QC Passed 2015-07-09, which makes no sense.

Sent a note to Blichmann and they quickly sent me the new impeller and bleed valve.
Haven't had a chance to use the pump yet with the new parts.

 

[Smellyglove]

Where are these pumps produced?

 

[Mad Scientist]

Where are these pumps produced?

USA according to Blichamann. No other info given.

 

[tracer]

You just voided your warranty

John has already sent me a modified version of the original impeller, and when they get one worked out that will stand the heat I'm Shure he will have one sent to me.
tracer Tom

 

[marjen]

I have had my riptide since they first came out. Had some issues getting it to run but this weekend it seized up and would not work anymore. When i took the head off the whole propeller and other metal housing was in the head almost like it was more attached to that than the base unit. I got it to run for a few seconds then nothing more. Now if I turn it on it just makes slight noise but the propeller is not spinning. Very disappointed. This is my first pump and I thought I was getting one of the best. I emailed support yesterday but have not heard back yet.

 

[mbg]

My impeller is definitely dark brown. Looks like the one on the Blichmann web page. The date is 2017-02-08. Maybe I'll call them - didn't want to think I waited for 2-1/2 months to get the old impeller design.

Mike

FYI - I was told the dark brown impeller is the new design.

 

[Mad Scientist]

John has already sent me a modified version of the original impeller, and when they get one worked out that will stand the heat I'm Shure he will have one sent to me.
tracer Tom

I sent John a PM and he did not respond.

 

[DarkNoonBrewer]

I sent John a PM and he did not respond.

Better to contact them through email at the support email. At least thats what I hear when I contact them through the facebook page. I found the page: http://www.blichmannengineering.com/contact-us but you can use [email protected]

 

[Mad Scientist]

I know, just frustrating....especially with people ordering and receiving pumps now

 

[stpug]

Has anyone posted a picture of old vs new impeller design? It would be nice to see what's supposed to be "new and working" vs "old and problematic".

This is an image from morebeer on the impeller. Is this the old/problematic design?

 

[sillbeer]

That is the same impeller that I have on both of mine. I received a message back from MoreBeer saying the pumps I have are the updated versions. Time will tell.

 

[stpug]

That is the same impeller that I have on both of mine. I received a message back from MoreBeer saying the pumps I have are the updated versions. Time will tell.

Does your pump happen to have a manufactured date sticker on it? If so, what's the date. I seems like a few posts back there was a date cutoff that could also be used to get an idea of a pump is updated or not. I've also read about brown colored impellers but cannot find a pic of any online.

Impeller designs in this thread:
Black no holes
Black w/ holes (pictured above)
Dark brown (unknown about holes)

Someone with a 2/3/17 date has black with no holes (supposedly old impeller design)
Someone else with a 2/8/17 date has black with holes (supposedly new impeller design)

So far, nothing conclusive about which impeller is actually the updated version. Not to mention the confusion of black vs dark brown, and holes vs no holes, and manufactured dates.

 

[mbg]

Has anyone posted a picture of old vs new impeller design? It would be nice to see what's supposed to be "new and working" vs "old and problematic".

This is an image from morebeer on the impeller. Is this the old/problematic design?

OK hear are pics of mine. Mine looks like that but it's dark brown. Blichmann says the dark brown is latest design.

Mike

Anyone else worried about losing the small thrust washer on the impeller shaft?

 

[sillbeer]

Does your pump happen to have a manufactured date sticker on it? If so, what's the date. I seems like a few posts back there was a date cutoff that could also be used to get an idea of a pump is updated or not. I've also read about brown colored impellers but cannot find a pic of any online.

Impeller designs in this thread:
Black no holes
Black w/ holes (pictured above)
Dark brown (unknown about holes)

Someone with a 2/3/17 date has black with no holes (supposedly old impeller design)
Someone else with a 2/8/17 date has black with holes (supposedly new impeller design)

So far, nothing conclusive about which impeller is actually the updated version. Not to mention the confusion of black vs dark brown, and holes vs no holes, and manufactured dates.

I posted the info about my QC stickers on page 5. 2017-02-03

Also I misread mbg's original post about his impeller. I thought you said the vanes have holes in them not between them. So, mine is just like yours except mine is black.

 

[Mr_McGibblets]

Anyone else worried about losing the small thrust washer on the impeller shaft?

Yes, because I've already lost mine! When Blichmann Support sent me a new rear casing for the impeller, they included an extra o-ring and washer.

I will be buying at least 5-10 spare washers for sure (as well as some o-rings and retainer clips).

http://parts.blichmannengineering.com/product-p/be-001106-00.htm

 

[Mirilis]

Good idea, it will probably still work without it though i mean how many march/chugger pumps have the plastic one that erodes away after a couple cycles of pbw

Yes, because I've already lost mine! When Blichmann Support sent me a new rear casing for the impeller, they included an extra o-ring and washer.

I will be buying at least 5-10 spare washers for sure (as well as some o-rings and retainer clips).

http://parts.blichmannengineering.com/product-p/be-001106-00.htm

 

[Bleuskies]

I had the same problem, as well as chattering noises occasionally. I found that it very difficult to reassemble the pump after cleaning and the alignment is critical. The idea of the tri-clo clamp on the pump head is a great concept but there really is no positive seat or index lip to hold the assembly while you tighten the clamp. The result is a noisy operation if everything is not exactly perfect. I bought two of these pumps and have the same problem with both.

 

[Bleuskies]

The claim is that this is an improvement on March or other standard pump designs, but between the difficulty in assembly and the infamous thrust washer, it seems to be more of a pain than the old designs were. On the other hand, the quiet operation (when it is assembled perfectly) and the enclosed motor are improvements. I also have trouble with the output valve slowly decreasing flow. It does not stay adjusted after pumping has started

 

[The_Bishop]

Not sure I get how the disassembly is a 'pain.'

Have you ever disassembled a march/chugger? 8 screws in soft brass inserts that will pull out and/or strip if you do it too often?

A single tri-clamp to disassemble the pump head is genius. Now I can insure it's clean *and* dry when I'm done brewing with no tools and no worries.

 

[sillbeer]

I agree with Bishop. I think this is an improvement and will only get better. I had an encounter where I thought I lost the washer but found it. I think being aware of it is key. I've taken mine apart several times and have not had any issues with alignment on either pump. Also Blichmann quickly accepted the fact that there where issues in the field and they are supplying improved replacement parts. It looks like mine is the old design and if/when I have issues I will be contacting them.

 

[sillbeer]

I boiled 10 gallons of water yesterday and cycled it through both of my pumps for about 5 minutes each with no issues. I did have to file down the lip just a little where the pump head attaches to the pump due to a slight defect.

This morning I started heating up water in HLT and I stagnated at 155 degrees. I transferred water to my BK thinking my element died in my HLT but that didn't work either. I went through all the settings on my controller and can't figure anything out. I've been using the controller for about 2 years with no issues.

 

[Bleuskies]

Not sure I get how the disassembly is a 'pain.'

Have you ever disassembled a march/chugger? 8 screws in soft brass inserts that will pull out and/or strip if you do it too often?

A single tri-clamp to disassemble the pump head is genius. Now I can insure it's clean *and* dry when I'm done brewing with no tools and no worries.

i didn't say it was hard to "disassemble". It is difficult IMHO to assemble. As stated in an earlier post, if the clamp is just a little snug, it freezes. If the pump head is not aligned right (which is not that easy to determine) it will make wear noise. As I stated, the idea IS GREAT, just some issues in final design. I don't disassemble my pumps every time I brew and have found PBW, followed by hot rinse and StarSan will get the inside immaculate. But I do hesitate to disassemble the pump when it is time due to the issues I pointed out. Blichmann products are excellent and this one will get worked out but, as an early buyer, I am seeing the bugs.

 

[kal]

I don't disassemble my pumps every time I brew and have found PBW, followed by hot rinse and StarSan will get the inside immaculate.

+1. I only take my March pumps apart about once a year and there's usually not much to 'clean'. I do like the idea of a tri-clamp fitting if everything else works perfectly however - like Bleuskies mentioned, I'm sure they'll iron out the bugs. Like they've always said, never buy the first version of anything.

Kal

 

[The_Bishop]

i didn't say it was hard to "disassemble". It is difficult IMHO to assemble. As stated in an earlier post, if the clamp is just a little snug, it freezes. If the pump head is not aligned right (which is not that easy to determine) it will make wear noise. As I stated, the idea IS GREAT, just some issues in final design. I don't disassemble my pumps every time I brew and have found PBW, followed by hot rinse and StarSan will get the inside immaculate. But I do hesitate to disassemble the pump when it is time due to the issues I pointed out. Blichmann products are excellent and this one will get worked out but, as an early buyer, I am seeing the bugs.

My pump is one of the early ones, too. Maybe yours is different, but I don't have any issues with my pump being hard to assemble, either. It has a pretty positive engagement when it's lined up.

I''ve always done the PBW/hot rinse thing. However, my pump is mounted to my stand, and always retained a little water. I was never happy leaving that in there, so being able to quickly disassemble for cleaning and drying is a home run for me.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

+1. I only take my March pumps apart about once a year and there's usually not much to 'clean'. I do like the idea of a tri-clamp fitting if everything else works perfectly however - like Bleuskies mentioned, I'm sure they'll iron out the bugs. Like they've always said, never buy the first version of anything.

Kal

I say never release a lemon.

 

[mbg]

Used mine today to clean my four taps & beer lines with daisy chain fittings and hoses. Even wide open wasn't much flow but the 5/16" beer line must be pretty restrictive. I first flowed water then added BLC and looked like I made a gallon of root beer as soon as the cleaner hit the taps/lines.

 

[hukdizzle]

Alright so I finally got the new "improved" impeller design and tried it out tonight. For those interested I took out my digital calipers and measured everything I could and found no dimensional differences. What I did find was more quality issues and a louder impeller design.

Here is the apparent difference between the old and new impeller. On the left you have the new (brown) impeller which has two roughly 1.5mm slits in the impeller material. On the right is the original impeller included with my pump. The slits are for allowing water flow to reach the back side of the impeller housing and shaft I believe which is to help cut down on seizing potential.

Unfortunately... Due to this the impeller is quite loud when there is actual positive flow in the impeller housing. You can see this from the video below. It almost sounds like cavitation of some sort potentially due to a low pressure inside of the impeller housing being caused by the positive pressure flow on the opposite side of the impeller.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbNs_ucwEsY[/ame]

And the biggest potential issue of all... When I went to disassemble the pump for impeller comparison tonight I found that the impeller shaft had completely come out of the pump head while operating and this is clearly not supposed to happen! I have to say I am quite concerned that the free floating shaft may cause catastrophic pump failure or worse, cause some metal/plastic filings to end up in my beer...

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SkwCWhXHyM[/ame]

To be fair I did NOT try and pump any boiling or even warm water through the pump for comparison so I cannot tell you if it stands up better to high temps with the "improved" impeller. What I can say is that I am thoroughly unimpressed with the pump itself in it's current state and would NOT recommend it anyone. Blichmann customer service has been great so far but my patience is wearing thin with this product and I am not sure how much longer I am going to give it a chance. I will be emailing Blichmann once again to have the quality issues with my pump sorted and report back.

 

[DarkNoonBrewer]

I'm pretty certain the noise is not from the holes in the back of the impeller because all of the impellers have the same holes. It might be from the shaft. If the impeller was stuck on the shaft, pulling it off may have made the pin loose. I think the cause was the old impeller getting stuck onto the shaft. You may try tapping that press fit shaft back into the housing. Use a board or something to keep the end of the shaft from getting mushroomed.

 

[hukdizzle]

I'm pretty certain the noise is not from the holes in the back of the impeller because all of the impellers have the same holes. It might be from the shaft. If the impeller was stuck on the shaft, pulling it off may have made the pin loose. I think the cause was the old impeller getting stuck onto the shaft. You may try tapping that press fit shaft back into the housing. Use a board or something to keep the end of the shaft from getting mushroomed.

You're missing the difference shown in the picture at the top of my post. I am not referring to the holes in the actual impeller itself but the slits that are on new impeller. Putting the old impeller back into the pump produces a much quieter operation.

The impeller was never stuck to the impeller shaft to the point where I could not easily slide it off either with the new or old version of the impeller at any time during my ownership. I have used this pump a total of 6 times now since I purchased it and it's been babied the entire time with no hard impacts or misuse.

I am thinking trying to reset a press fit shaft into a pump head by tapping it and potentially bending it, mushrooming it, or resetting it out of alignment isn't a great idea and would surely void any potential warranty. Blichmann is supposedly shipping me a new pump on Monday and wants mine back to see what happened with it. I'll update this thread.