Priming an ESB - 0.4 oz dextrose? Is this proven technique?

[heckler73]

http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html

I hate to doubt the internet, but in looking up priming sugar for a Bitter, it's telling me to go with less than 1 oz of priming dextrose in my bottles.

1.025 volumes CO2 = 0.4 oz dextrose (the recommended nominal)

I realize the english style is usually less carbonated, but only 20% of what I've usually put into my IPA (5 oz) and Hefe (6 oz) seems like a recipe for flat beer.

Who's successfully used less than 1 oz dextrose to prime a Bitter? 0.4 oz seems like it would barely be enough to mix into the 5 gallons.

My brew:
Grapefruit Bitter O.G. - 1.052 F.G - 1.010
8lb pale malt extract
12 oz carastan malt
4 oz wheat malt
1 oz Cascade bittering hops (60 minutes)
1.5 oz Cascade finishing hops
1968 Ale yeast made with a starter

 

[dbreienrk1]

This is where I would break from the style guide. I do not enjoy less carbonated beer. It is a personal preference. Do what you enjoy. I checked your calcs and your original number is correct (per the style).

 

[mattd2]

Remember that there is a fair bit of CO2 already in solution from fermenting at 60 - 70°F. ~0.8 @ 68°F so you need an extra 0.225 Volumes for your ESB or an extra 1.1 volumes for an IPA (1.9 Vol) so 20% of what you would use for a IPA sms right on the money

 

[Locham]

It comes down to the style you're looking for, and your personal prefereance. I lived in England for a few years, and most cask pulled ales had very little carbonation. I kind of like that for a bitter or an ESB, but many of my American compatriots never preferred the flat bitter.

The 1.025 that tastybrew gives you is the median for the style, so you could go anywhere from .75 to 1.3 and be 'within style'. Check northernbrewer's calculator, and it says an ESB should be 1.7 volumes. Dig a little more, and some folks say that .75-1.3 is the right carbonation for a cask pulled ale, but the same beer bottle-carbed is normally 1.7-2.3. Just from experience, a bottle of Hobgoblin ale (http://www.wychwood.co.uk/#/home//hobgoblin/home) tasted much more carbonated than a cask pulled pint. Backing this up: as per BJCP's guidelines for an ESB, "Mouthfeel: Medium-light to medium-full body. Low to moderate carbonation, although bottled commercial versions will be higher. Stronger versions may have a slight alcohol warmth but this character should not be too high." (http://www.bjcp.org/2008styles/style08.php)

Take a look at this article, too: http://***********/stories/techniqu...598-enjoy-the-real-thing-cask-conditioned-ale. While it's for kegging, 1.2 volumes seems about right for a real ale (bitter), and an ESB might edge a little higher.

So...try it out and see, and post your results here! If you like it, then it's good. I'm guessing that it is difficult to exactly replicate a cask-pulled ale in a bottle due to the introduction of air in a beer engine...but perhaps someone can enlighten me.

 

[Locham]

Just because I'm interested in this, too - I've read that if you want to get the 'cask pulled' flavor from your bottled bitter/ESB, you need to prepare them. One suggestion I read is to open the bottle and let it sit for a few hours. This, of course, depends on how much a stickler you are to a 'real ale' taste, a la CAMRA.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[unionrdr]

I brewed my Cooper's English bitter with 500g box of DME, added.5oz Haulertauer @ 20 minutes. The remaining .5oz @ 10 minutes. I then got it down to 3.3%ABV by priming to 1.3 volumes. At 3 weeks,it had a decent head,but still tasted nearly flat. I primed to the maximum for ordinary bitter. I'm thinking 1.8 volumes will push it closer to bottled examples next time around.
I was told that by adding a 2nd 500g box of the Cooper's plain light DME,& 1oz East Kent Golding will yieald a Fuller's ESB clone. But I honestly think 1.8V would bring it closer to actual carbonation levels from bottled bitters.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

This is where I would break from the style guide. I do not enjoy less carbonated beer. It is a personal preference. Do what you enjoy. I checked your calcs and your original number is correct (per the style).

i agree with you here. i actually like beers with a lower level of carbonation, but in this case you want to shoot for the high side of the style when using the TastyBrew calc. the 1.025 volumes will give you a beer that's carbonated a lot like a Fuller's London Pride, which is fairly flat even in the bottle. i've carbed ESBs to that volume and they're good, but a li'l closer to 2 (1.5-1.8 would probably be ideal) volumes seems to be better, IMO.

 

[unionrdr]

i agree with you here. i actually like beers with a lower level of carbonation, but in this case you want to shoot for the high side of the style when using the TastyBrew calc. the 1.025 volumes will give you a beer that's carbonated a lot like a Fuller's London Pride, which is fairly flat even in the bottle. i've carbed ESBs to that volume and they're good, but a li'l closer to 2 (1.5-1.8 would probably be ideal) volumes seems to be better, IMO.

After tasting my 1st batch of EB that I primed to the max of 1.3V,I agree that it def needs a hair more. So I decided,after we talked about this last time,to shoot for 1.8V. That would seem to me to be a better balance. Maybe we could work toward an American bitter? (other than arrogant bastard).

 

[heckler73]

Thanks for the info guys! I'll give 1.3 volumes a try for now. 1.2 oz of dextrose will be a lot less than I've ever tasted (other than when I rack it), and I'm not going to risk going flatter than that on the first go around.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,1.3V is ok,& to style. Flavor is great,but I think me & nordeast agree that 1.8 should be more like it. You'll kow in a couple months. I need to make a home brew run this week! To tell you the truth,this Salvator doppel bock is tasting a heck of a lot like it has munich & Vienna malts in an ESB to me. All the Salvators we've drunk,& I finally taste those to sweet German malts. A very different sort of malt sweetness. Brighter,& a bit sweeter than usual. But not clying at all,although I can see where it'd be easy to slip into that amount-wise. Which gives me an even better idea.

 

[Locham]

I'm thinking along the lines of 1.5-1.8V when I bottle my Scottish Export in a few weeks. Appreciate the discussion, and since you're ahead of the game, heckler, let us know how it works out at 1.3V!

 

[heckler73]

the wife says 'no flat beer!', but agrees to brew to style.

 

[unionrdr]

Like I said earlier,I primed my 1st batch of EB to the maximum for ordinary bitter at 1.3V. It had decent head,but almost no carbonation. Quite flat tasting by our standards. But boy,did it make for wonderful malt flavors. Even a little bitterness from the malts. That's what 1.3V seemed like to me.

 

[heckler73]

I went with 1.2 oz dextrose to prime.

yup, it's low carbonation, but it's good! 19 days in the bottle. Tiny little bubbles, and no head, but plenty carbed up.

 

[heckler73]

1 month in bottles with 1.2 oz and I'm regretting it. That last bottle (1 L flip top) was flat and gross. Poured it into the sink.

 

[SwampassJ]

1 month in bottles with 1.2 oz and I'm regretting it. That last bottle (1 L flip top) was flat and gross. Poured it into the sink.

Been there. I did 3 bitters back at 1.8 volumes and it just barely worked for me. Next one I did at 2.1 and it's much better. I wouldn't go under 2.0 for a bottled beer again.

 

[Locham]

Sorry to hear it didn't work out. So it was alright at 3 weeks, but another week and it was garbage? Bummer.

I primed my Scottish Export with 2.3 oz of corn sugar, 1.7 volumes. I bottled it a little less than a week ago, so we'll see how it goes in a few weeks or so. Hope ot not pour it down the sink, either...either that, or there will be a lot of beer cooking in the house for a while.

 

[mattd2]

1 month in bottles with 1.2 oz and I'm regretting it. That last bottle (1 L flip top) was flat and gross. Poured it into the sink.

Have they all been 1 litre bottles? From what I have heard it can take longer to carb up a bigger bottle (have no idea why and it goes against what I thought would be the case really).

 

[SwampassJ]

1 month in bottles with 1.2 oz and I'm regretting it. That last bottle (1 L flip top) was flat and gross. Poured it into the sink.

Just noticed the flip top. What about adding those carb drops? I think they call for 2-3 per bottle, what if you just add in some to each bottle and reseal?

 

[heckler73]

Unbelievable! RAHAHB is so true!

It's been another week (5 weeks in bottles), and now we've cracked two 0.5L bottles that have had great carbonation and a nice white head with very tiny bubbles. Actually very nice to drink.

Never, ever, dump a batch. Just wait a little longer.

I've got another 1L bottle in the fridge to test it out in a couple days.

 

[Locham]

Huzzah! Glad it worked out. Maybe your sugar solution wasn't mixed completely in your bottling bucket which led to some inconsistent results...and you just happened to sample the 'wrong' bottles? I forgot to stir mine until I filled the second bottle last time.

I'll keep in mind a longer conditioning time for my lower volume beers.

Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[heckler73]

it seems temperature plays a large part as well.

warm beer, never seen the fridge - perfectly carbonated.
ice cold, in the fridge for a few days - flat and gross.

A couple hours in the fridge and it's golden, or you mix half a warm one and half a cold one if you're desperate.