poured wort on sanitizer solution - HELP!

[kbuzz]

Alright, I have to start brewing sober...I just poured a perfectly good wort into my fermentor which still had the sanitzed solution in it that I forgot to pour out. I'd say it was about a gallon of water mixed with a no rinse sanitizer.

What effect will this have on my beer? Obviously it had a lower OG than expected because I was not anticipating the extra gallon of water - 6 versus 5 - but any other side effects of pouring wort on top of sanitized tap water??

 

[hoppymonkey]

Was it starsan?

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

We all have poured our beer into primary's with some sort of sanitizer solution left in it in some capacity. Now having said that I've never poured it onto a gallon of the solution, but I wouldn't think it would cause to much of a problem. Will probably make the beer taste a little more watered down and change the mouth feel some? Just my opinion........

 

[ezzieyguywuf]

What was your sanitizer? StarSan? I hear its totally ok to pour your wort on that stuff, even gives the yeasties something extra to snack on. I bet someone will recommend to make a second batch with higher OG and mix them, so that you can get closer to what you originally intended.

 

[kbuzz]

Was it starsan?

Nope, I use LD Carlson Easy Clean...it's what my LHBS sells.

We all have poured our beer into primary's with some sort of sanitizer solution left in it in some capacity. Now having said that I've never poured it onto a gallon of the solution, but I wouldn't think it would cause to much of a problem. Will probably make the beer taste a little more watered down and change the mouth feel some? Just my opinion........

Anything I can do to compensate?? I was already worried that this was a low starting gravity...ended up being about .06 - .1 lower. Can adding more to the dry hop comepensate for the watered down quality?

 

[kbuzz]

What was your sanitizer? StarSan? I hear its totally ok to pour your wort on that stuff, even gives the yeasties something extra to snack on. I bet someone will recommend to make a second batch with higher OG and mix them, so that you can get closer to what you originally intended.

This is actually a brilliant idea. Maybe I just gave myself an excuse to brew again tomorrow - off for President's Day :rockin:

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

I'm not familiar with LD Carlson Easy Clean so I can't say if it's gonna be safe to drink or not. I use StarSan, but if it's a no-rinse sanitizer it shouldn't be a huge worry.

As far as compensating, I'll have to defer to one of the more experienced brewers to see what you can do. The watered down tastes can sometimes be fixed by carbonation and time in the bottle to condition properly.

 

[ChshreCat]

From what I've read, Easy Clean is the same stuff that's in Oxyclean. I've had a slight Oxyclean residue on my brew equipment and it gave me big off flavors. I don't think I'd want to drink beer with a gallon of it mixed in.

This is another reason I use my sanitizer in a spray bottle rather than filling vessels with it.

 

[kbuzz]

It's not that easy clean...it's just a phrase that I think they use to refer to the no-rinse aspect of it.

Just read the label - "No Rinse Powdered Cleanser - Dissolve 1 Tbs per one gallon of warm water. Wash surfaces with solution. No rinsing is required..."

 

[bruin_ale]

I know you don't want to hear this, but I'd dump it. Even if it was starsan..

 

[kbuzz]

I know you don't want to hear this, but I'd dump it. Even if it was starsan..

Well, no I don't...but still curious...for health reasons or taste reasons??

 

[bruin_ale]

health reasons mostly.. it's rated as no rinse, but I'm fairly sure they didn't intend for a full gallon of their solution to make it into your beer.
I don't usually dump things for taste reasons, once it's brewed most of the cost is already in there and I have plenty of fermentors to let things go a bit and see how they turn out.

 

[ezzieyguywuf]

if he brews another 5 gallon batch, that's one gallon no-rinse stuff to 9 gallons brew. You can work out the ppm if you want, but it will be a small amount (I believe). AND the yeasties get to eat up on it. Still, I defer to the more experienced member (i.e. bump)

 

[DogFace_Brewing]

dump it...there can be no good outcome of drinking a gallon of solution used to sanitize even if it was properly diluted...cut your lose and brew again

 

[flabyboy]

if it's one step solution, you should be ok

 

[malweth]

+1 on dumping
and
+1 on spray bottle.

I use Na/K-metabisulfite in a spray bottle for my sanitizing. Anything standing I dump out unless it's for long-term sanitization (in a bucket with other equipment). This product sounds more like a cleaner (it is supposedly similar to oxy-clean).

One link I found discussing it:
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40045&start=0

 

[theredben]

Following the above link, it seems like it is some kind of peroxide product. As long as it ferments, it will be good to drink. Being worried about 1 gallon of oxyclean is silly when there is 1 quart of ethanol in it by the time it is finished. That ethanol stuff can kill you.

I did the same thing as you with a stout 1 month ago when transferring to secondary, cursed a lot, then went down to the LHBS and picked up an extra strong version. When the extra strong was done fermenting I mixed the two at bottling and it tastes great. Well, not great, but good.

 

[kbuzz]

+1 on dumping
and
+1 on spray bottle.

I use Na/K-metabisulfite in a spray bottle for my sanitizing. Anything standing I dump out unless it's for long-term sanitization (in a bucket with other equipment). This product sounds more like a cleaner (it is supposedly similar to oxy-clean).

One link I found discussing it:
http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40045&start=0

Man I've never dumped before...an entire brew session down the drain. I'm leaning toward dumping at this point...although I'm still not convinced that there's a substantial risk from drinking this. I know it's not going to be any good, but at this point, I'm just hoping that it won't kill me if I drink it.

I wish the local shop was open on Mondays and I'd be dumping for sure...unfortunately they aren't and I'd be forced to wait an entire week before brewing again...that is a hard thought to entertain.

 

[408Brewer]

If it was an iodine based cleaner you must dump it for sure. Iodine is POISON and will kill you. Star San is safer, but I wouldn't want a gallon of it in my beer.

 

[kbuzz]

Following the above link, it seems like it is some kind of peroxide product. As long as it ferments, it will be good to drink. Being worried about 1 gallon of oxyclean is silly when there is 1 quart of ethanol in it by the time it is finished. That ethanol stuff can kill you.

I did the same thing as you with a stout 1 month ago when transferring to secondary, cursed a lot, then went down to the LHBS and picked up an extra strong version. When the extra strong was done fermenting I mixed the two at bottling and it tastes great. Well, not great, but good.

How many of these stouts have you consumed? Does it taste "okay"?? I may not be dumping afterall...as long as it doesn't hospitalize me, I may just keep this around...it was brewed as a spring/summer beer, so if a little thin, no matter...

If it was an iodine based cleaner you must dump it for sure. Iodine is POISON and will kill you. Star San is safer, but I wouldn't want a gallon of it in my beer.

No, not iodine based. I didn't want a gallon of the stuff in my beer either, but it's there so I need to know what effects to be concerned about...

 

[BWN]

It sounds more like a cleanser than a sanitizer.

 

[kbuzz]

It sounds more like a cleanser than a sanitizer.

According to the guys at the shop, it's both...more so a sanitizer, but can be used as a cleanser too.

 

[mixedbrewer]

I have used it. It becomes a per-oxide solution when mixed with water. It can be used for sanitizing but it needs about a 30 minute contact time.

 

[aidan]

If it is a similar product to oxi-clean the active ingredient is sodium percarbonate. Here is the MSDS for sodium percarbonate: http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927598

Looking at that it definitely doesn't look safe to consume. However the question is does it break down during fermentation or over time?

If I were you I would try calling the manufacturer (LD Carlson - 1-800-321-0315 ) and asking what the active ingredient is and does it break down during fermentation.

I'm wondering what effect it has on the yeast. Has it started to ferment yet?

 

[malkore]

Its a percarbonate cleanser. You can't drink it.

I think you made a dumper

 

[joetothemo]

Here's a thought...Contact the manufacturer and see what they say.

 

[hamiltont]

Go ahead & let it ferment out. If we don't hear from you in say six months we'll assume it didn't work out. Seriously, are you really willing to take that risk?

 

[BIGREDIOWAN]

Having this new information...............dump the stuff.

 

[bryanjints]

I used to use that same stuff because it was all the LHBS had. Now I use StarSan had to order it through the mail. My guess is you should do the same.


Dump the beer. It is unsalvageable. In order to salvage it you would have to make more beer than you are allowed to make by law.

 

[Navy_Chief]

Dump it, definitely not worth the risk.

 

[brewit2it]

If it is a similar product to oxi-clean the active ingredient is sodium percarbonate. Here is the MSDS for sodium percarbonate: http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927598

Looking at that it definitely doesn't look safe to consume. However the question is does it break down during fermentation or over time?

If I were you I would try calling the manufacturer (LD Carlson - 1-800-321-0315 ) and asking what the active ingredient is and does it break down during fermentation.

I'm wondering what effect it has on the yeast. Has it started to ferment yet?

Ingestion:
Do not induce vomiting. Loosen tight clothing such as a collar, tie, belt or waistband.

This is what I always do when drinking homebrew, even when it doesn't contain a gallon of poison in the batch

 

[hamiltont]

Ingestion:
Do not induce vomiting. Loosen tight clothing such as a collar, tie, belt or waistband.

That's just so the mortician doesn't have to work so hard when you arrive...

 

[theredben]

Still confused why suddenly percarbonate means a dumper? My understanding of sodium percarbonate as a sanitizer is that the peroxide breaks off and leaves baking soda and peroxide. The resulting oxidation leaves you basically with baking soda in your beer. Before you get too worried about sodium percarbonate you should do some research into how much of our food is surface sanitized with it before processing.

EDIT: If the yeast can survive it, why can't we?

 

[aidan]

Still confused why suddenly percarbonate means a dumper? My understanding of sodium percarbonate as a sanitizer is that the peroxide breaks off and leaves baking soda and peroxide. The resulting oxidation leaves you basically with baking soda in your beer. Before you get too worried about sodium percarbonate you should do some research into how much of our food is surface sanitized with it before processing.

EDIT: If the yeast can survive it, why can't we?

Yes, kbuzz should first call the manufacturer and verify exactly what chemicals are in the cleaner/sanitiser to see if it is just sodium percarbonate. And although the MSDS shows it to be a toxic substance, it may well break down to something harmless. But find out exactly what it does break down into and under what circumstances (time, temp, etc). I don't know the answer to that but I would find out before deciding whether or not to dump.

 

[kbuzz]

Hasn't started a full blown fermentation yet. There are little clumps of yeast floating on the top surrounded by little pockets of CO2 bubbles. Steady temp at around 68 - which has worked fine for me in the past for this yeast (WLP001). If I don't have a solid fermentation in a day or two, I may not even have to make a decision on this.

Will have to call the manufacturer during their business hours tomorrow...but their website says this is an "no-rinse oxygen based compound for cleaning beer and winemaking equipment." Sounds like oxyclean to me.

 

[mindfire22]

I think it'll taste really clean in the end

 

[kbuzz]

I think it'll taste really clean in the end

Great first post

 

[mindfire22]

Great first post

Couldn't help myself

 

[cklages]

Still confused why suddenly percarbonate means a dumper? My understanding of sodium percarbonate as a sanitizer is that the peroxide breaks off and leaves baking soda and peroxide. The resulting oxidation leaves you basically with baking soda in your beer. Before you get too worried about sodium percarbonate you should do some research into how much of our food is surface sanitized with it before processing.

EDIT: If the yeast can survive it, why can't we?

Actually, sodium percarbonate breaks down into hydrogen peroxide (which breaks down into water and oxygen), and sodium carbonate which is soda ash or washing soda (not bicarbonate which is baking soda).

Soda ash is actually used as a food additive (E500), the following I pulled off of the interwebs.

Sodium carbonate is naturally occurring in alkaline waters, however it is also synthesised by the Solvay process or by electrolysis of sea water. Sodium carbonate is used as an acidity regulator, particularly in beer making. Excessive ingestion may result in stomach upset. Typical products include beer, baking, soft and fizzy drinks, medications. No known adverse effects in small quantities. May irritate the eyes and respiratory tract.

You will notice that lots of things you might want to avoid ingesting are also food additives, like good old E507 (hydrochloric acid).

It doesn't seem like sodium carbonate is particularly dangerous, it kind of looks like you are in for no worse than a tummy ache if there is too much. I'm no doctor, just some dude on the internet, so take that for what its worth.

That being said, oxygen based cleansers are awesome but make mediocre sanitizers IMHO. Once the beer is fermented, do you want a chemical that works by throwing pure oxygen exposed to your beer even in trace amounts? Get some starsan, its cheap and works great! Save the percarbonate for cleaning the scum out of your fermenter. :rockin:

 

[theredben]

Actually, sodium percarbonate breaks down into hydrogen peroxide (which breaks down into water and oxygen), and sodium carbonate which is soda ash or washing soda (not bicarbonate which is baking soda).

Soda ash is actually used as a food additive (E500), the following I pulled off of the interwebs.



You will notice that lots of things you might want to avoid ingesting are also food additives, like good old E507 (hydrochloric acid).

Thanks for correcting me on the bakind soda stuff. Seriously though, this stuff is not a safety issue in these kinds of concentrations. LD50 is 2200mg/kg. Rough math = 180g to kill you. That is a lot.