Wort chilling and brew pot water volume

[NYJayhawk]

Two questions, unrelated but both have been eating at me for a while:
1.) When transferring the wort to the fermenter I've been using a wort chiller (typical copper coil hooked up to a hose). Nevertheless, the recipes I've used only use 2-3 gallons in the brewpot and have me adding water when I transfer to the fermenter. Is there any reason NOT to use ice (or ice and water) in the fermenter when I pour the wort in? I tried it today because I had an issue with the wort chiller and it took my wort down from around 150 degrees down to around 80 when it was mixed together. I guess I'll find out if I did something horrible, but I'm wondering why this isn't "standard procedure".
2.) Is there any issue with brewing with MORE water in the pot than the recipe calls for? For example, the recipe I made today called for boiling everhing with 2 1/2 gallons of water in the pot. Would there be an issue if I brewed the wort with 3 or even 4 gallons and then topped it off with only 1 gallon as I transfer it into the fermenter? Seems that all of the ingredients would still be in the beer, albiet diluted in the initial boil, but the final dilution would be the same.
Thanks in advance for the info.

 

[mac_1103]

I assume that these are extract brews we're talking about, correct?

1) If you want to make adding ice to top off and chill a "standard procedure" then you probably want to use sterile ice. Boil your top off water and then freeze it in sanitized tupperware or similar.

2) There is no reason not to use more water in the kettle, up to the total recipe volume. The only disadvantages are a) increased risk of boil over and b) you can't use (as much) cold top off water (or ice) to help chill the wort. Every extract kit or recipe I've ever used gives a minimum recommended boil volume; I've never seen one that says you can't use more.

 

[NYJayhawk]

Thanks Mac, very helpful. Yes, extract recipes. I'm not boiling my 'top off" water at this point, so I'm not sure how ice made from the same water could contaminate it. I've been using regular old tap water to top off my batches since I started messing around with this stuff in 1995, so I'm curious how the ice could transmit any significant amount of potential critters.
But this is why we ask the questions. Thanks again.

 

[IslandLizard]

Would there be an issue if I brewed the wort with 3 or even 4 gallons and then topped it off with only 1 gallon as I transfer it into the fermenter?

As @mac_1103 said, you can boil the full volume, but you also have to chill that full volume down to fermentation temps. For most extract recipes there's no advantage doing full boils, the extract was boiled already, then condensed.

After the chiller slows down its effectiveness, due to the temp difference becoming too small, topping up the batch with ice water or ice is the easiest and simplest way to get the temps down to pitching temps.

 

[whoaru99]

I'm not boiling my 'top off" water at this point, so I'm not sure how ice made from the same water could contaminate it.

One would expect similar results, other than possibly some sort of additional exposure depending how you freeze the ice (e.g. open trays) or handle it.

That said, many boil their top off water so those doing that typically would boil the water used for ice too. I'm sure that's where mac was coming from.

 

[IslandLizard]

I've been using regular old tap water to top off my batches

Generally, tap water safe for consumption is safe to add to wort. If your tap water is chlorinated or treated with chloramines, you do want to treat it with Campden/K-Meta to remove the chlorine/chloramines.

If your tap water is very hard, alkaline or loaded with minerals, you may not want to use it for beer brewing, especially lighter color ones.

 

[NYJayhawk]

Thanks for all the responses and educated info. Much appreciated to all of you.

 

[Bobby_M]

1. If the recipe calls for a certain volume in the boil and has an expected top off in the fermenter, the bitterness is calculated with those ratios in mind. That is, a certain peak IBUs developed in the boil per the listed hop additions and then the expected IBU dilution in the fermenter. Messing with those ratios requires some recalculation if you want the beer to be as intended.

2. The benefit to a larger boil is that IBU doesn't get quite as diluted. If you were designing your own recipes with the help of software like beersmith or brewfather, the limited loss of IBU via the top off MAY be the difference between having to buy that extra ounce of hops or not. A slightly lesser benefit is the reduced chance of scorching the sugar on the bottom of the pot. This is only really an issue with really concentrated boils with high gravity wort.

3. You should be using sanitary water for the top off. That's either preboiling your tap water or using bottled water. If you want to make ice, sanitize some tapered containers like chinese takeout soup containers. They will let the ice slide out easily.

4. I highly recommend starting with 100% distilled water for extract brewing either way. No excess minerals, other than what comes in the extract and you know there's no chlorine or bacteria in it.