Potassium Sorbate: Yay or Nay??

[DaveTheDamaja]

So,
I'm new to winemaking. I've attempted to batches so far one of raspberry wine and one Pinot Noir. I was told to use potassium sorbate to back sweet the raspberry wine; I was also told to use it on the Pinot Noir to halt fermentation before bottling. Both batches turned out pretty horrible. They had the same strange aftertaste. I attribute this to the potassium sorbate. I followed the directions on the bottle which states half a teaspoon per gallon but somehow both batches had the same strange taste. What are your thoughts on the use of potassium sorbate on dry wines? Is it necessary? Should I trust that fermentation is complete once the specific gravity has leveled out?

 

[Honda88]

potassium sorbate should not be used for dry wines...only potassium metabisulfite should be used. For sweet wines most home winemakers use potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfite at the same time to prevent fermentation from restarting...if the specific gravity is less then 1.000 and it doesn't seem to be changing then I would go ahead and call it done...Sometimes the specific gravity will stop at a higher gravity though. I just had a wine stop at 1.000 on the dot. you just have to check for movement in the hydrometer to determine if it is still fermenting...As far as the taste goes it may not be caused by just the sorbate but it could be other things like acidity or an h2s problem....

 

[Yooper]

I don't like the taste of sorbate myself either.

I don't use it much, as I don't make sweet wines as a rule. You don't need it at all when you make a wine that you're not sweetening. Once the wine is dry, sorbate isn't necessary.

As far as using it for wines you will sweeten, there are a few things that help. One is to use it only long after the wine is completely finished and clear, and then use only enough to halt the yeast from reproducing- generally about 1/2 teaspoon per gallon. It should be used in conjunction with sulfites (campden), as it works better in the presence of sulfites. Then, a few days later, the wine is sweetened.

It should never be used unless the sulfites are used, as sorbate can interact with malolactic fermentation and cause a horrible taste and smell called geraniol.

 

[DaveTheDamaja]

Thank you! Both of your responses are very helpful. I appreciate the insight. Looks like I need to study a bit in the chemistry of wine making...

 

[DoctorCAD]

...sorbate can interact with malolactic fermentation and cause a horrible taste and smell called geraniol.

I will attest to this!!!!

I ruined 5 gallons of Carmenere because my LHBS told me to sorbate the MLF'ing wine. It tastes like someone shoved geraniums in your mouth!

 

[DaveTheDamaja]

Do you know of any good books or websites that detail the best practices and methods for winemaking as far as chemistry goes?

 

[DaveTheDamaja]

I honestly don't want to use sorbate ever again. Are there any alternative chemicals to use?

 

[max42]

I just saw a similar post in the Mead forum and posted a reply. I was getting ready to use potassium sorbate in a sweet peach brandy prior to bottling and was researching how to use it. I'm not sure what to do now to ensure I don't have bottle bombs.

I found the following on the Winemakers Academy website:

While this additive does stabilize wines it does have three distinct limitations. First, it is ineffective against bacteria.

If stray bacteria or lactic acid bacteria were to get in your wine while using only potassium sorbate it would not prevent spoilage or malolactic fermentation (as caused by lactic acid bacteria). The combination of sulfites and sorbate help reduce your risks of this as mentioned before.

The second limitation of potassium sorbate is the length of time it is effective. Once added to wine it stays in the desireable form of sorbic acid only for a short time. Over time it breaks down into ethyl sorbate which can add notes of pineapple or celery to your wine.

The change into ethyl sorbate is not preventable. By using potassium sorbate winemakers are putting a definite shelf life on their wines before they pick up these off flavors.

The third limitation is that it reacts poorly with lactic acid bacteria. According to my research it can produce strong geranium odors which most wine drinkers consider a flaw.

Because of these limitations many wineries do not use potassium sorbate. They opt to stabilize with sulfites only an rely on their ability to properly sanitize everything to prevent spoilage. Interestingly, wines with potassium sorbate may not be classified as organic.

 

[DaveTheDamaja]

So do you think the combination of Camden tablets and potassium sorbate might prevent the geranium like flavor? Assuming the Camden tablets kill the bacteria?

 

[helibrewer]

I have only ever used sorbate (Sorbistat) in conjunction with K-meta when back sweetening cider. I would not use it in wine.

If you want to try it, do a bench trial on the raspberry wine to see what the effect will be before treating the entire batch.

 

[DaveTheDamaja]

Is the K-meta a sulfite? Sorry for the elementary questions. I'm new to this.

 

[DoctorCAD]

K-meta stands for potassium (chemical symbol = K) metabisulfite.

 

[DaveTheDamaja]

Thank you for the clarification

 

[Yooper]

I honestly don't want to use sorbate ever again. Are there any alternative chemicals to use?

Sodium benzoate is one that is often available, and while I've never used it it may be flavorless, or more so.

So do you think the combination of Camden tablets and potassium sorbate might prevent the geranium like flavor? Assuming the Camden tablets kill the bacteria?

No. The campden should be used of course, but it will not stop active MLF. In order for the combo to "work", the wine must be finished, and clear, and not dropping any lees at all for at least 60 days. Then it can be used. Some people are far more sensitive to the taste of sorbate than others- some can't taste it at all it seems, while people (like me) can detect it in minute amounts and dislike it.

 

[wildozarkwine]

If you want a sweeter wine you can keep adding sugar in small amounts until the alcohol kills the yeast. This can give you a very high ABV depending on the yeast used, I have hit 20+%! Another method I have read about is to add a non-fermentable sugar after the wine is clear, I have never tried this myself.

 

[pumpkinman2012]

If you are going to back sweeten a wine, you need to use sorbate and meta as others have already stated, I add it to any wine that I'm back sweetening, if you follow the directions, you'll be fine and you'll never taste it, if you go heavy handed with it as some do, you'll taste it.

The short and simple is this:
Sorbate will not stop an active fermentation, meta and sorbate will not stop an active fermentation, they will however stop any new fermentations from starting. And yes, you could actually stop a fermentation with meta, but the amount necessary would render the wine undrinkable.

Never add sorbate to a wine that has been put through Malolactic fermentation, or add Malolactic bacteria to a wine that has been treated with sorbate, as Yooper stated it can create a strong geranium smell and taste.