Porter one week in fermenter, is it what its supposed to taste like?

[Ali01]

Hello
I haven't opened the fermenter, my fermenter comes with a valve a few inches above the bottom, I was very careful with sanitation and sealing to avoid oxidation, I opened the value, took a little sample, a little bit of water rised up in the blow off tube but it went back in since the fermentation was still a bit active, so in short, I didn't mess things up taking this sample, I tasted it and it tastes awful
There's a little roastiness to it, but it feels more like alcohol, bitter and just a tiny bit sour, is it what its supposed to taste like one week after fermentation? I'm using us05 and my og was 1.047

One more thing, I've seen many people suggest taking two gravity readings at two points, usually within two days after 2/3 weeks to make sure fermentation is over, in order for me to take a sample, I'll have to open the lid, will that cause oxidation even if I don't splashing anything, causing bubbles?

 

[VikeMan]

I haven't opened the fermenter, my fermenter comes with a valve a few inches from the bottom, I was very careful with sanitation and sealing to avoid oxidation, I opened the value, took a little sample

in order for me to take a sample, I'll have to open the lid,

Or you could take another sample from the valve. Just sayin'

 

[DBhomebrew]

There's a little roastiness to it, but it feels more like alcohol, bitter and just a tiny bit sour, is it what its supposed to taste like one week after fermentation?

Yes. Just let it be for a couple more weeks, it'll get better. Stronger, darker beers tend to require more time for the beer to fully mature. At merely a week, you're tasting green beer with yeast and other particles in suspension.

 

[Ali01]

Or you could take another sample from the valve. Just sayin'

There's a limit to this since co2 isn't produced anymore, as I open the valve, some liquid leaves the fermenter, the negative pressure built by the new space sucks some water in the blow off tube, if I take so much liquid, the water will eventually travel all the way through the tube and get to the inside of the fermenter

I was wondering if opening the fermenter without splashing anything will cause oxidation since co2 generation is over and the introduced o2 will not be pushed out

 

[RM-MN]

If you take a hydrometer sample from the valve that volume of air will be introduced into the fermenter. If you open the lid to get a sample, you are sure to get more air mixed into the CO2. Neither way will be perfect, neither way will be wrong for a porter. This isn't a NEIPA with tons of hops whose flavor and aroma will be degraded by oxygen.

 

[Ali01]

If you take a hydrometer sample from the valve that volume of air will be introduced into the fermenter. If you open the lid to get a sample, you are sure to get more air mixed into the CO2. Neither way will be perfect, neither way will be wrong for a porter. This isn't a NEIPA with tons of hops whose flavor and aroma will be degraded by oxygen.

Thanks
I just read somewhere that oxidation will make a good beer taste like cardboard
So it's not really a thing in a porter? I don't wanna take any chances
Oxidation and bottle bombs are both my nightmare and it seems like I can't make sure I avoid one without raising the chances of the other

 

[Langerz]

Do you have a way to connect CO2 to the fermenter? In that case do that and draw from sample valve.

Otherwise what I generally did before getting a Tilt was just leave it to ferment plenty long rather than taking samples.

If you open the lid the headspace will be basically regular air with plenty of oxygen. Stirring or not your beer is exposed

That said I personally wouldn’t be too worried about it for a beer that isn’t a highly hopped one

 

[Ali01]

Do you have a way to connect CO2 to the fermenter? In that case do that and draw from sample valve.

Otherwise what I generally did before getting a Tilt was just leave it to ferment plenty long rather than taking samples.

If you open the lid the headspace will be basically regular air with plenty of oxygen. Stirring or not your beer is exposed

That said I personally wouldn’t be too worried about it for a beer that isn’t a highly hopped one

I don't have a co2 tank, but I will let it in the fermenter longer, 3 weeks should do it, right?

 

[jschein]

I don't have a co2 tank, but I will let it in the fermenter longer, 3 weeks should do it, right?

For a Porter 3 to 4 weeks is my minimum

 

[RM-MN]

Thanks
I just read somewhere that oxidation will make a good beer taste like cardboard
So it's not really a thing in a porter? I don't wanna take any chances
Oxidation and bottle bombs are both my nightmare and it seems like I can't make sure I avoid one without raising the chances of the other

Yes, oxidation will make beer taste like cardboard but oxygen doesn't absorb into beer as readily as you assume. To get it to dissolve you need to stir the beer. That's why you stir your wort before adding the yeast, to get more oxygen dissolved. Don't be in a hurry to take the sample, your porter will benefit from time in the fermenter and even more time in the bottle. I leave most of my beers for 3 weeks in the fermenter and my porters usually get 3 months or more in the bottles before the flavor really peaks. The porters will taste good before that so don't hesitate to sample some earlier but don't guzzle them all too soon.

 

[VikeMan]

Yes, oxidation will make beer taste like cardboard but oxygen doesn't absorb into beer as readily as you assume. To get it to dissolve you need to stir the beer.

Stirring increases the surface area, which accelerates O2 pickup. But it's not strictly speaking necessary. O2 moves just fine (though more slowly) through a still beer surface, until it reaches equilibrium according to Henry's law.

 

[bellhp]

Worrying negatively impacts the beer more than oxygen .
RDWHAHB

 

[seatazzz]

Carbon dioxide (co2) is heavier than the air we breathe; so there should be a nice blanket of co2 in your fermenter that will somewhat protect it from oxidizing. Even if the airlock is not bubbling there is still action going on with the yeast, just not energetic enough to cause bubbles in the airlock, or to see the yeast moving around in the beer. The yeast need time to clean up the by-products of fermentation, this can take a few days or a few weeks depending on the beer. Leave it alone (I know how hard this can be!) for at least another week, then take another small sample. You will be amazed at the change.

Patience is the most important ingredient in any homebrew recipe!

 

[VikeMan]

Carbon dioxide (co2) is heavier than the air we breathe; so there should be a nice blanket of co2 in your fermenter that will somewhat protect it from oxidizing.

The CO2 in the headspace can slow down the initial diffusion of O2 through the headspace a little, through random collision of gas molecules. But assuming no further CO2 production/off-gassing, whatever O2 manages to get into the headspace will ultimately completely mix with the CO2 and will reach the same equilibrium with O2 dissolved in the beer, regardless of the amount of CO2 present.

 

[seatazzz]

Very correct; this is why I said 'somewhat'. Just trying not to confuse a new brewer too much. Porters are also a bit more forgiving when it comes to oxidation.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

If the objective is to extend the "shelf life" of the beer, refrigeration may be a useful tool. We can also "embrace and extend" some of the ideas (including packaging techniques) that commercial craft brewers use to attempt to deliver fresh beer.

But, as home brewers, we rarely need to subject our beers to harsh shipping and storage conditions.

Starting out, perhaps

• small(er) batches
• of styles that don't oxidize rapidly,
• packaged with reasonable care,
• stored cool, and
• consumed fresh

while reading up on the latest techniques for bottling and/or kegging.

 

[tracer bullet]

Very correct; this is why I said 'somewhat'. Just trying not to confuse a new brewer too much.

I get it, but the CO2 blanket is a myth that needs to stop being talked about. As mentioned the gasses mix, and do so almost immediately.

If @Ali01 is still reading, I've learned a few things I'll share...

* If you have good yeast and visually see lots of fermentation (swirling, cloudy beer, lots of airlock activity) for a few days that eventually subsides, then the beer has likely fermented and the yeast is finished. Give it a few more days to be sure it's cleared up and stopped bubbling and you're pretty much done. In other words - trust it. I do, anyhow. I'll take a gravity reading from the remnants of the fermenter after I keg it via closed transfer. It's more to see how I did and for record keeping, but if it stopped fermenting a little short I wouldn't do anything about it anyhow. And I feel sure it hasn't stopped fermenting way too early because I know how much activity I saw. I used to take readings all the time and after a few years of the beers always fermenting completely I realized I just didn't need to do it any more, to "check" if it was done. After a couple weeks, yep, it's done.
* You have to wait to take tastes tests. Between fermenting still going on, the yeast being suspended in the beer, and so on, it usually will just taste bad. I ferment, keg, let sit a few days in the refrigerator carbonated, and then finally start drinking and tasting it to see how it turned out. Anything prior to that and it's just not ready.

 

[hotbeer]

One week in the FV? I wouldn't even bother to do anything but look at it through the sight glass or clear sides of the FV if you have it in a clear glass or plastic FV. It'd never cross my mind to want to taste it. Yeast gives off a lot of bad flavors too during fermentation that need to have time to go away.

You also don't have to check your SG. Sure it's nice to know, but not really necessary. At least not during fermentation time before you bottle or keg. Probably less so if you keg. Just wait until the beer is cleaned up and as clear as it's going to get. That'll probably be at least ten days from pitch and maybe even 2 - 6 weeks. By then it's long past the time it reached FG.

Having to do the checks to ensure it's reached FG is only important if you are in a big hurry and can't wait. But IMO, waiting lets more good stuff happen to your beer with out all the hassles of having to cold crash, use gelatin and even filtering your beer.

 

[jerrylotto]

Foam works better than gas protecting your beer from oxidation. I've taken to shaking my fermenter up a bit to create a layer of foam at the top before opening the lid if I have to do so.

 

[Ali01]

Foam works better than gas protecting your beer from oxidation. I've taken to shaking my fermenter up a bit to create a layer of foam at the top before opening the lid if I have to do so.

Yeah but the problem is I don't have a co2 tank using which I can fill the top space with co2, and that foam will disappear after a while, exposing the beer to the o2 in the top space, right?

 

[VikeMan]

Foam works better than gas protecting your beer from oxidation. I've taken to shaking my fermenter up a bit to create a layer of foam at the top before opening the lid if I have to do so.

But what happens after the foam falls? Whatever O2 got into the headspace will still get into the beer, until equilibrium is reached.

 

[jerrylotto]

It's just what I do when I have to open the lid. Works better than no foam. Eventually you'll want to put a ball lock post on to your fermenter and get a CO2 tank so you can purge it but you work with what you got. The more foam you have the lower the headspace.

 

[bellhp]

Bottling my Marzen right now ... Day 45 . It will be delicious ... because i'm not worrying about it.

 

[Ali01]

After reviewing I'll the comments, I've decided that without a co2 tank, I will just give it more time like 3-4 weeks to make sure fermentation is over and also to let more sediments sink down the bottom and give the yeast more time to clean up it's byproducts

 

[mac_1103]

I've decided that without a co2 tank, I will just give it more time like 3-4 weeks to make sure fermentation is over and also to let more sediments sink down the bottom and give the yeast more time to clean up it's byproducts

I know that there are those who like to set grain-to-glass speed records, but for me one week is way too early to even think about taking a sample for a gravity reading (much less to taste). One thing you can do instead of a CO2 tank is to capture fermentation gas in a mylar balloon connected to the top of your fermenter. Then when you pull a sample from the spigot it will suck back CO2 instead of air.

 

[Ali01]

I know that there are those who like to set grain-to-glass speed records, but for me one week is way too early to even think about taking a sample for a gravity reading (much less to taste). One thing you can do instead of a CO2 tank is to capture fermentation gas in a mylar balloon connected to the top of your fermenter. Then when you pull a sample from the spigot it will suck back CO2 instead of air.

Wow that's smart
That's what I'm gonna do next time

 

[Quentin Nelson]

1 - All this obsession with keeping air/oxygen away from fermenting beer is way over-rated. Great beer has been made for centuries with open fermentation. Notice the brewer by the “Yorkshire SQuare” is not wearing an oxygen mask. However, if he was in the very real “blanket of CO2” over the square he would suffocate.

2 - No commercial brewery keeps beer in a fermenter for 4-6 weeks. 4-6 DAYS is typical. Learn how they do that. LARGE yeast slurry pitch, lots of pure oxygen to get it started, temp control etc.

I never use an airlock or sealed fermenter during first 3-4 days of rapid fermentation. Maybe after I transfer into a second container to let brew clean up for a week. Put whiskey in your airlock & don’t worry if a little gets sucked back into beer.

 

[Quentin Nelson]

Picture to go with previous post. SIte was constantly crashing (due to so many popups?)

 

[tracer bullet]

All this obsession with keeping air/oxygen away from fermenting beer is way over-rated. Great beer has been made for centuries with open fermentation.

Go ahead and open ferment a NEIPA and let us know how it tastes.

I tend to agree with you actually, but as long as we can both agree it is dependent on the style.

Some beers can be great with open fermentation. Maybe even better. But not ALL beers.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Go ahead and open ferment a NEIPA and let us know how it tastes.

To be fair, this thread is about a porter.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

dependent on the style.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

No commercial brewery keeps beer in a fermenter for 4-6 weeks. 4-6 DAYS is typical. Learn how they do that.

Ouch.We're here talking about home brewing techniques. Can you tell us what you do?

 

[mac_1103]

1 - All this obsession with keeping air/oxygen away from fermenting beer is way over-rated. Great beer has been made for centuries with open fermentation.

Breweries that do open fermentations tend to be orders of magnitude cleaner than my basement, and I suspect that this was also true centuries ago.

2 - No commercial brewery keeps beer in a fermenter for 4-6 weeks. 4-6 DAYS is typical. Learn how they do that. LARGE yeast slurry pitch, lots of pure oxygen to get it started, temp control etc.

Commercial breweries also don't package right out of the fermenter after 4-6 days for the most part. Leaving beer in the FV for weeks is really just combining the commercial brewer's primary fermentation and bright tank functions, and it works just fine for many (most?) homebrewers.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Oxygen aside, nothing good can be gained by tasting a porter 7 days into fermentation. Go outside and play for a while. Let it ferment.

 

[jerrylotto]

After reviewing I'll the comments, I've decided that without a co2 tank, I will just give it more time like 3-4 weeks to make sure fermentation is over and also to let more sediments sink down the bottom and give the yeast more time to clean up it's byproducts

Two goals that are at odds there. If you want the yeast to clean up you want to raise the temperature a couple of degrees and if you want the sediments and yeast to settle you want to lower the temperature (cold crash). With lagers I generally do a diacetyl rest for 3 days or so 10° above fermentation temperature and then cold crash. Ales and porters generally fermented a high enough temperature that you don't need to do a diacetyl rest, so you should probably start lowering the temperature a couple of degrees per day if you have that level of control down to about 35 F

Go ahead and open ferment a NEIPA and let us know how it tastes.

I tend to agree with you actually, but as long as we can both agree it is dependent on the style.

Some beers can be great with open fermentation. Maybe even better. But not ALL beers.

I have had a great NEIPA that was open fermented. The key was to open ferment in a closed off space with little to no air movement. Clearly you don't want to be in the same room without an air tank to breath from - this was a commercial operation with about 50 open buckets going...

 

[Ali01]

I don't have enough equipment to do what most of you do
And no cold basement or dedicated fridge to control the temperature, just an air conditioner, my preferred yeast was s04 since I prefer my beers to have a little sweetness, but that's not an option here, I'm living in a hot zone, the lowest temp I can reach with my air conditioner is 22.
That's why I went with the us05
Now I think I should've gotten a kveik yeast, people say that stuff is awesome, they can ferment good beers at 20-40 with no off flavors!

 

[Ali01]

I appreciate all the replies and I apologize for my broken English.

 

[Langerz]

I have had a great NEIPA that was open fermented. The key was to open ferment in a closed off space with little to no air movement. Clearly you don't want to be in the same room without an air tank to breath from - this was a commercial operation with about 50 open buckets going...

If the space was closed off was it an open fermentation or a closed fermentation in a really big vessel with tons of headspace?

I don't have enough equipment to do what most of you do
And no cold basement or dedicated fridge to control the temperature, just an air conditioner, my preferred yeast was s04 since I prefer my beers to have a little sweetness, but that's not an option here, I'm living in a hot zone, the lowest temp I can reach with my air conditioner is 22.
That's why I went with the us05
Now I think I should've gotten a kveik yeast, people say that stuff is awesome, they can ferment good beers at 20-40 with no off flavors!

In the end I wouldn't worry too much. Be patient and you'll end up with good beer. I've increased my equipment quite a bit and still look back at that first batch with bare bones equipment and it was pretty dang good.

 

[user 338926]

I recently did a New Belgium clone of their "Fat Tire" Amber Ale. In a huge stand up freezer w/Stainless conical inside, but in a garage that was 50F (10C). Figured I didn't need to turn on the freezer/temp controller, it was plenty cold.

Uhh, Wrong...

OG of 1.062 (little high for this clone) and using US-04 it went to 77.5F (25.3C) all on it's own... Created a horrible alcohol aroma, and might get dumped out because of it. I never would have guessed it could raise the temp of the entire freezer in such a cold garage, but I guess they're insulated pretty well. Who knew, lol.

Admittedly, now another week later at 60F (15.5C) It's a little better, but still has a nose that makes you want to dump the glass. Doesn't taste terrible, but it's not what I was expecting.

Moral of the story is, your fermentation temp probably caused this, as did mine. This could be my second 10 gal batch getting dumped out in the last month. What stinks is that the equipment is again tied up with a batch of beer I'm trying to save by letting it sit. Where it should be in kegs and in the kegerator already and I should be making another batch of something else. I suppose I could keg it and do something else. But I so enjoy cleaning kegs, I hate to stick bad beer in 2 only to dump it and have to clean them again for nothing....

Mistakes are bad...

 

[homebeerbrewer]

Patience is the most important ingredient in any homebrew recipe!

^That is the quote of the day.

I leave most beers in the fermenter, untouched, for 4 weeks. Lagers, and high gravity beers are left longer. I was impatient at first too, but learned patience.

I've not had any experience with kveik yeast, but from what I hear, it may be what you need. US-05 is pretty tolerant of temps, but it does have its limits.