Actually it's a sweet by-product of combustion that EVs don't have. If you want to talk about fuel efficiency, start with E=MC^2. Yea, that's a different topic, isn't it.
Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?
- Thread starter Oldpaddy
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
What parts do you have in mind that don't like to be cold? The water and oil necessities of a gas engine?
I'm currently glad for heat in the car, not so much in the summer. I'd have to guess if you took data for all the days across the country you'd find more often than not the A/C is on as opposed to the heat. Only a guess, so nevermind.
Curious who the zealots are? As a non EV owner, I see people who have them debunking the myths, but not a single zealot. I haven't seen a single person that wont' immediately tell you they aren't for everyone. Only that they could work for more people than some people think. And who tire of the nonsense hit pieces.
My next car will almost certainly be ICE, but I do like to see what EV's can and can't do. I also like people to actually share an opinion an not just drop off a hit piece, or to back up whatever assertions they make. Stirring the pot can be fun too.
Anyhow, the heat thing. Gas engines are good because... gas engines like to be hot? Or something?
I think I see now - this is a homebrew forum after all. Clearly I haven't had as much as you have tonight. Cheers.
Combustion engines create heat. Heat can be used to warm the cabin, and also warm the mechanical parts which work better when the lubricating oil is less viscous. That's all I was saying. Won't comment on the rest of your post.
Too bad about the lightning. I kind of want one, mostly for V2H. Not at the price they want to charge, however.
our next car will be a hybrid, mostly due to there being no dacia jogger full ev yet 
.
Price is still an issue for me personally, if we would have needed a second car, i'd go for a small electric one, but my ebike is fine and doesn't require us to spend 2-3k on renovating our home electrics and paying 100 a month more on "base-carry capacity" to our electric company(you pay a base price+kwh to the local company that does "transfer" and the base is based on main fuse size for some reason).
.Price is still an issue for me personally, if we would have needed a second car, i'd go for a small electric one, but my ebike is fine and doesn't require us to spend 2-3k on renovating our home electrics and paying 100 a month more on "base-carry capacity" to our electric company(you pay a base price+kwh to the local company that does "transfer" and the base is based on main fuse size for some reason).
My ICE cars do too, which I attribute mostly to the 0 mpg when I let it idle warm up for one or two remote start cycles, go into a store, etc.
I presume EV has some sort of similar warm up / heat producing "idle" capability?
Yeah, I think when one remote starts an EV while it's plugged into a Level 2 charger the components that start will draw energy slower than the plug supplies it. So people start from their garage/driveway and don't suffer a range penalty.
I've been really enjoying starting my vehicle in the garage and not worrying about getting carbon monoxide poisoning.
I've been really enjoying starting my vehicle in the garage and not worrying about getting carbon monoxide poisoning.
I turn the heat on 2-3 minutes before leaving, while plugged in.
On the LiFePO4 cells I've used to build battery packs, example during build 12V, 210Ah
they can't be charged at low temps or risk damage. So, for cold weather one can incorporate heating or the BMS prevents charging.
In an EV, do the batteries have the same cold charging concern? If so, is battery heating part of an automatic process below a certain temp?
they can't be charged at low temps or risk damage. So, for cold weather one can incorporate heating or the BMS prevents charging.
In an EV, do the batteries have the same cold charging concern? If so, is battery heating part of an automatic process below a certain temp?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Messages
- 3,372
- Reaction score
- 4,291
- Location
- Either in the brewery or on the road
Our motorhome has 400W of solar panels to charge/maintain a 200 amp/hr battery bank. The system has an integral heater (manual off/on operation) to be used at ambient outdoor temperatures below 40F. It facilitates the charging and efficient discharge of the battery bank, though we are seldom using the RV in temperatures below freezing.
Our Prius has an interesting multi-function display screen that comes on when I plug in to charge when ambient temp exceeds 90F or thereabouts. It asks if I will allow the A/C to operate while charging for more efficient and complete charging, though nothing for heat when below 40F.
I kinda like the coming e-Dodge...
https://carbuzz.com/features/electric-dodge-charger-daytona-srt-what-to-expect
https://carbuzz.com/features/electric-dodge-charger-daytona-srt-what-to-expect
Cold weather adversely affects all cars. EVs perhaps less so than ICEs, according to this possibly biased source.
It's often a challenge to make true heads or tails of lots of the articles.
Admittedly, I didn't read it through and through, but it struck me somthing like the average age of fleet could play in too.
Average of passenger cars on the road is around 13-14 years, yet EV is just short of 4 years average, per some other article I perused.
The effect of cold is real. Range “issues” are real. The problem is when this discussion is framed as an ice vs ev when it is more appropriately framed in NEED.
1000% overwhelmingly without question the EV is ALWAYS more convenient for MOST HOMEOWNERS for DAILY DRIVING NEEDS every single time.
I could sit here and explain every number every which way showing exactly what the effect of the cold was on my car today. Hint: not good. But the key is “not good” is irrelevant without discussing needs. I have zero interest anymore interacting with hell-bent anti-ev’ers who whip out ridiculous scenarios that we all know are bunk. Most people drive 30 miles or so per day. My car can lose 90% of its rated range (it doesn’t) and still accomplish that task.
1000% overwhelmingly without question the EV is ALWAYS more convenient for MOST HOMEOWNERS for DAILY DRIVING NEEDS every single time.
I could sit here and explain every number every which way showing exactly what the effect of the cold was on my car today. Hint: not good. But the key is “not good” is irrelevant without discussing needs. I have zero interest anymore interacting with hell-bent anti-ev’ers who whip out ridiculous scenarios that we all know are bunk. Most people drive 30 miles or so per day. My car can lose 90% of its rated range (it doesn’t) and still accomplish that task.
True in so many cases. Crime statistics, dietary science, astrophysics all come to mind. Comparing vehicle types should be fairly straightforward. Correcting for vehicle age seems easy, as such things go.
But bias colors many EV articles (as well as my own posts in this thread
).
Yes. In my case, a smaller percentage. But I need my car to go more than 30 miles with fair frequency, so I'd use an even lower number.
Still, with almost 200 miles of range even in our coldest Portland OR winters, I can still do almost anything I ever need to do. I guess I might still rent an ICE for a trip to Seattle in the dead of winter.
I don't think anyone is arguing the effect of cold, but the 2nd two paragraphs seem a little defensive.
Same here, I was just being obtuse.
I will have owned my Model 3 for 2 full years as of the last week of February. I believe it was the 26th. As of today, I have put 46,000 miles on it. My daily average is insanely higher than the general public’s.
I have NEVER ONCE needed a public charger when I didn’t already plan for it, ie, a true roadtrip. For example, the last 12 months, 84% of my charging was accomplished at home. 16% on roadtrips. 80% of the time, I absolutely enjoyed more convenience than my gas cars. 16% of the time I stopped for a few minutes longer than I would have anyway.
It’s a no-brainer unless you don’t own a home or tow regularly.
Owning an EV and being willing to discuss it publicly almost guarantees some level of defensiveness from time to time. I won’t deny that.
We had to use a public charger “unexpectedly” for the first time yesterday, though I don’t know the contribution the cold actually made to that need vs. my perception of the potential range drop from the cold.
Still: Supercharger was near our first destination, took 15 minutes to charge, and got back home at the end of the day with 35%. Could we have made it without supercharging? Probably. Oh well.
Still: Supercharger was near our first destination, took 15 minutes to charge, and got back home at the end of the day with 35%. Could we have made it without supercharging? Probably. Oh well.
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Messages
- 3,372
- Reaction score
- 4,291
- Location
- Either in the brewery or on the road
Absolutely correct.
My wife drives an older (2017) Prius PHEV with the small capacity traction battery. It only provides about 32 miles range per full charge, which takes between 4~5 hours to accomplish using a Level1 charger on a 20 amp house circuit.
The charge time varies with ambient temperature in our garage (cold or hot). She plugs in only when the range is fully depleted and the hybrid IC has taken over. She plugs in 3-4 times per week on average, and I only fill the 9 gallon gasoline tank up 2-3 times per year to top off fresher fuel in the tank.
We’ve got an IC Volvo and a diesel Mercedes Sprinter, and nearly all ‘city’ driving gets done in the Prius. After several years experience, I have no doubt that 100% of daily driving could be accomplished in an EV, and most non-city driving in a vehicle with adequate range and added recharging infrastructure is also possible.
Just curious as to your high cost of ownership.
We have a ‘14 Forester, purchased new, and it’s been an excellent vehicle for us. It’s at 105k now and I’ve replaced the brake pads and had to replace the safety transmission key lock module, which the dealer replaced for free.
I know it’s a little diff than an Outback but I love the visibility, ease of driving in downtown, parking it etc.
When it’s time to replace I hope I can get the same vehicle in a bev or hybrid.
It’s not the most fuel efficient car, in heavy city traffic I’m still averaging 26 mpg. I know that’s not great but this thing is unstoppable in snow and crappy weather.
That's why I'm letting all you nice folks work out the kinks for me.
My current fleet used vehicles consisting of a CSUV, car, and 3/4 ton pickup have a cumulative 49 years and 580,000ish miles between them for a total purchase price of $29k.
So to me, the capability of a vehicle to keep existing through their second decade is kind of a big deal.
Last edited:
We’re back into the high 30’s today. This caused a noticeable difference in power usage. I drove similar mileage yesterday and today, 20% less used today.
IMHO the fact that ICEV also have range/efficiency losses due to heat isn't as big of a factor as BEVs, because it only takes 5 minutes to fill up an ICEV at the pump.
That said, if some BEV maker really wanted a good advertising idea, all you have to do is show a montage of ICEV owners shivering and freezing as they fill up their ICEVs at gas stations, and then simply cut to someone getting into their (pre-warmed off house electricity) BEV and setting off. And then driving right past one of those frozen gas stations while sipping their piping-hot coffee and smiling because they don't have to do that.
"Tired of freezing while you fill up at gas stations? When you 'fill up' every night in your garage, that's a problem of the past."
That said, if some BEV maker really wanted a good advertising idea, all you have to do is show a montage of ICEV owners shivering and freezing as they fill up their ICEVs at gas stations, and then simply cut to someone getting into their (pre-warmed off house electricity) BEV and setting off. And then driving right past one of those frozen gas stations while sipping their piping-hot coffee and smiling because they don't have to do that.
"Tired of freezing while you fill up at gas stations? When you 'fill up' every night in your garage, that's a problem of the past."
Has anyone yet seen a Cybertruck in the wild? If so, where do you live?
Here in Orange County, I see pretty much every EV that exists. I've seen multiple Polestars, and I have even seen a Lucid or two. Tons of Rivians, seen a few Audi eTron GT (and the normal eTron SUV), Jaguar, etc... (And non-EV, I see Fisker Karmas often b/c their HQ is ~4 miles away).
But I haven't yet seen a Cybertruck.
Here in Orange County, I see pretty much every EV that exists. I've seen multiple Polestars, and I have even seen a Lucid or two. Tons of Rivians, seen a few Audi eTron GT (and the normal eTron SUV), Jaguar, etc... (And non-EV, I see Fisker Karmas often b/c their HQ is ~4 miles away).
But I haven't yet seen a Cybertruck.
Funny my uncle texted me less than an hour ago that he saw one today in LA.
I've seen it all down here. No cybertrucks. They are kinda dumb looking, can't imagine. I suppose I'll regret that statement 20 yrs from now.
They look like a SWAT riot truck.
They look like a SWAT riot truck.
Guess the owner doesn't like to venture beyond the "Orange Curtain"...
...which is fine. I prefer not to cross the LA County border unless I have to.
Gotta drive through there Fri/Sun on the way to/from Paso Robles though, so maybe I'll see one through LA or along the way.
My cousin sent a picture of one a few days ago at a grocery store in Austin, TX.
I guess they're keeping Austin weird
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2012
- Messages
- 3,372
- Reaction score
- 4,291
- Location
- Either in the brewery or on the road
Got the T shirt!I guess they're keeping Austin weird
what I find weird about tesla is that they go from:
model 3, pretty basic styling but recognisable, not a bad looking car
model x quite fun looking, maybe not the most practical door solution but at least it's interesting and looks okay.
model s, sporty, good looking car.
cybertruck, who let the toddler on drugs design this thing?
model 3, pretty basic styling but recognisable, not a bad looking car
model x quite fun looking, maybe not the most practical door solution but at least it's interesting and looks okay.
model s, sporty, good looking car.
cybertruck, who let the toddler on drugs design this thing?
The toddler on drugs (Musk) designed it. Obviously.
To my eye, the only good-looking Tesla that exists is the Model S. That's a damn fine vehicle.
The X is a boring bubble. The 3 is a platypus. The Y is a fat platypus. And the less said about the Cybertruck, the better.
It's one of the things that I dislike about a lot of the EVs. They want to highlight that they're EVs in the design features. The Model 3, in particular, highlights that the vehicle doesn't require a grill at the front of the vehicle. But they drew attention to it not by use of styling, but by LACK of styling. No badging. Nothing to break up the front.
Auto styling is not easy. And I'm not saying I could do better. But I'm saying they could.
Dude, are you trying to draw Musk's scorn at HBT? He almost certainly has web crawlers looking for mentions of his name so he knows who to
I liked the Roadster more.
While the S (especially the 3-motor) is an awesome vehicle, it has a fat nostril...
Cheers!
[edit] What a ridiculous edit.
Last edited:
I will say I don't even remember what the Roadster looked like, and it's no longer for sale, so I avoided mention. And I was reading an article today that says only 2400 were sold. It did say it was based on the Lotus Elise, which is beautiful. My lack of mention wasn't because I think the Roadster was gorgeous or ugly; I figured it was irrelevant for the purposes of the conversation.
Similar threads
- Poll
