Poll: Do you have, or plan to get, an electric car?

[sibelman]

There's a weird debate going on here - everybody is on the same side of the argument.

And those on "the other side" are told this is not a debate forum. But many have clocked in with "over my dead body" so at least the voting part isn't all one-sided.

I've been driving electric for over a decade, with occasional ICE rentals for road trips. Done some longer trips with my Chevy Bolt, and had a couple of uh-oh moments with broken or unavailable chargers, but for in town it can't be beat. It was tougher to do longer drives in my 2012 LEAF with its comparatively tiny range. In warm weather without highway speeds, the Bolt now gets well over 300 miles on a 90% charge. Could break 350 with a full charge.

By the time my 2018 Bolt (with upgraded 2022 battery due to recall) needs replacement, there should be a wealth of small, "inexpensive" electric cars available, notwithstanding the Tesla-led trend toward bigger, upscale-priced electric vehicles. I'm glad to see Volvo is headed this way with the EX30.

 

[Kent88]

We're dealing with a parking break issue on the Volt. We're actually considering leasing a Bolt EUV. When we test drove a Bolt a few years ago my wife wasn't pleased with it, so I'm debating if we want one as a bridge EV between our Volt and whatever EV looks nice in 2-3 years. We have fallen into keeping one Jeep and one GM vehicle, and GM has a lot of new vehicles coming up, while Jeep is lagging behind.

 

[Brooothru]

And those on "the other side" are told this is not a debate forum. But many have clocked in with "over my dead body" so at least the voting part isn't all one-sided.

I've been driving electric for over a decade, with occasional ICE rentals for road trips. Done some longer trips with my Chevy Bolt, and had a couple of uh-oh moments with broken or unavailable chargers, but for in town it can't be beat. It was tougher to do longer drives in my 2012 LEAF with its comparatively tiny range. In warm weather without highway speeds, the Bolt now gets well over 300 miles on a 90% charge. Could break 350 with a full charge.

By the time my 2018 Bolt (with upgraded 2022 battery due to recall) needs replacement, there should be a wealth of small, "inexpensive" electric cars available, notwithstanding the Tesla-led trend toward bigger, upscale-priced electric vehicles. I'm glad to see Volvo is headed this way with the EX30.

I’m definitely looking seriously at an E-Volvo as a replacement for our current 2013 S60. Always garaged, never damaged, mint condition, runs great with 26 mpg on the highway.

We’ve always owned at least one Volvo since 1973, but this one will probably be running strong long after SWMBO’d and I are just a happy memory. An E-Volvo would be an impulse buy. So I guess we’ll settle our present ICE, Mercedes Diesel, and Prius hybrid till the kids take away the keys.

 

[Kent88]

The PHEV Hornet sounds strange

Review: 2024 Dodge Hornet R/T plug-in hybrid puts performance first

 

[TwistedGray]

so...I saw this lovely matte black i8 roadster today on the road....damn if I ever win the lottery, i might be getting a hybrid

Used one are in the 50's or 60's (not bad for a pretty awesome looking ride)

 

[Sailingeric]

I am tired of paying over $4.50 a gallon for gas and want to go electric but both my wife's 2007 Mazda 3 and my 2016 CX 5 are paid for and we work at home it is hard to justify the cost of an EV or plug in hybrid now. Her car gets maybe 2000 miles year.. probably less than that...and my CX5 I put less than 7k miles a year on it....and around town it gets 25 mpg..on the highway..30 to 35 mpg. Right now we spend less than $100 a month on gas. But should one of our cars die, will look at a plug in hybrid.

 

[passedpawn]

I am tired of paying over $4.50 a gallon for gas and want to go electric but both my wife's 2007 Mazda 3 and my 2016 CX 5 are paid for and we work at home it is hard to justify the cost of an EV or plug in hybrid now. Her car gets maybe 2000 miles year.. probably less than that...and my CX5 I put less than 7k miles a year on it....and around town it gets 25 mpg..on the highway..30 to 35 mpg. Right now we spend less than $100 a month on gas. But should one of our cars die, will look at a plug in hybrid.

I work from home, so gas isn't an issue. Still, I haven't seen gas that expensive in a while. Last time at the pump I payed $2.90. You might be looking at tax issues in your area.

 

[Airborneguy]

Unfortunately to see the true benefits, one has to put down a lot of annual miles. For me, that’s always been the case so my Tesla has been a godsend. It costs me so little to drive now that I don’t even think about tolls anymore, and those are really bad around here.

 

[Sailingeric]

I work from home, so gas isn't an issue. Still, I haven't seen gas that expensive in a while. Last time at the pump I payed $2.90. You might be looking at tax issues in your area.

I live in Oregon. We do have higher fuel taxes, but we have no sales tax and the car tag fee is every two years and it is fairly low.. it is the same if you drive an 82 escort or a 2023 Lamborghini, in the end it is all washes out.

 

[passedpawn]

I live in Oregon. We do have higher fuel taxes, but we have no sales tax and the car tag fee is every two years and it is fairly low.. it is the same if you drive an 82 escort or a 2023 Lamborghini, in the end it is all washes out.

The cost of gas is great exaggerated by state gas tax. Tax alone can add 40-50% to the cost.

 

[passedpawn]

I live in Oregon. We do have higher fuel taxes, but we have no sales tax and the car tag fee is every two years and it is fairly low.. it is the same if you drive an 82 escort or a 2023 Lamborghini, in the end it is all washes out.

Well, I don't know if it all washes out. My state has no income tax, so if you make considerable money, that is a thing to be considered.

 

[Sailingeric]

Well, I don't know if it all washes out. My state has no income tax, so if you make considerable money, that is a thing to be considered.

A RAV4 plug in hybrid is $45k...I could probably get $20k for my CX5. $25k difference buys a lot of $5 a gallon gas. My CX5 has 42k miles so a lot of life left in it.

 

[RePete]

I am tired of paying over $4.50 a gallon for gas and want to go electric but both my wife's 2007 Mazda 3 and my 2016 CX 5 are paid for and we work at home it is hard to justify the cost of an EV or plug in hybrid now. Her car gets maybe 2000 miles year.. probably less than that...and my CX5 I put less than 7k miles a year on it....and around town it gets 25 mpg..on the highway..30 to 35 mpg. Right now we spend less than $100 a month on gas. But should one of our cars die, will look at a plug in hybrid.

Honestly, it sounds like you drive little enough that it’s really not worth making the switch. In my case I put more like 25k miles a year on my car. I did the math and made the decision.

 

[Airborneguy]

Honestly, it sounds like you drive little enough that it’s really worth making the switch. In my case I put more like 25k miles a year on my car. I did the math and made the decision.

Little enough that it’s worth the switch or NOT worth the switch? I’m like you, I drive between 25-30k per year, so switching for me was a no brainer. But those who drive low mileage annually won’t see a benefit.

 

[Kent88]

But those who drive low mileage annually won’t see a benefit.

I would rephrase that to "those who drive less won't see a benefit as quickly", but that's just me.

 

[Airborneguy]

I would rephrase that to "those who drive less won't see a benefit as quickly", but that's just me.

Unless they find a sweetheart deal on a quality used EV, it will be really tough to "catch up" with low annual mileage. Play with the numbers some. Gas would have to be really high, kwh/m efficiency high, and electric costs really low for it to be worthwhile in my opinion.

Last year, it was a no brainer. At $3 per gallon, I've saved closed to $3000 in annual gas costs, but we haven't seen gas at $3 in over 2 years so I'm killing it. Last year it was touching $5 all summer.

But as it creeps down, a gas-sipping car could get really close to my numbers, especially if the annual miles are very low.

 

[Imhoppy]

A hundred years from now, there will be someone who will write about the lessons learned from the demise of the internal combustion engine (ICE). It will read: In the end, the demise of the ICE and the ascent of the electric vehicle (EV) ably illustrated two characteristics of energy transitions: they don't always solve energy problems and rarely perform as advertized. Everyone wants to believe that somehow there is a painless way to consume more energy that costs nothing with no consequences.

 

[mac_1103]

Everyone wants to believe that somehow there is a painless way to consume more energy that costs nothing with no consequences.

The point should be to find ways to consume less energy and objectively evaluate the consequences.

 

[bleme]

The cost of gas is great exaggerated by state gas tax. Tax alone can add 40-50% to the cost.

Average price in California right now is $4.83. We've been the highest for quite a while but I hear Washington just passed us up and is averaging $4.98. It cost me $106 to fill up yesterday. Fortunately, that lasts me about a month.

 

[passedpawn]

Average price in California right now is $4.83. We've been the highest for quite a while but I hear Washington just passed us up and is averaging $4.98.

I don't drive too much (self-employed out of home), so cost of gas isn't a thing I think about. For those who have long commutes, I can see how it could become a significant cost though. If I was one of those, I'd have an efficient electric vehicle for sure.

Just filled up my truck. Odd how costs are so much different.

 

[Airborneguy]

A hundred years from now, there will be someone who will write about the lessons learned from the demise of the internal combustion engine (ICE). It will read: In the end, the demise of the ICE and the ascent of the electric vehicle (EV) ably illustrated two characteristics of energy transitions: they don't always solve energy problems and rarely perform as advertized. Everyone wants to believe that somehow there is a painless way to consume more energy that costs nothing with no consequences.

I don’t “want to believe” anything besides my personal dollars and cents, and EV destroys gas in my situation.

As I’ve repeated a few times now, my situation is averaging 60-80 miles every day, including weekends. Far above average, while driving less 100+ mile trips than others. EV is literally perfect for me. I never charge outside of my garage except for roadtrips or the rare “why not” free charger.

Not to mention my car is faster than all but the top 5% or so ICE cars, something I also enjoy.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Average price in California right now is $4.83. We've been the highest for quite a while but I hear Washington just passed us up and is averaging $4.98.

Of course, electrons ain't cheap here either.

 

[bleme]

Of course, electrons ain't cheap here either.

$.30 kWh

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

$.30 kWh

Yep. Almost double the national average.

 

[mac_1103]

Oregon state gas tax is $0.38/gallon. That's twelve cents more than here in Virginia. So what's the other $1.75? Other than state excise taxes, the biggest driver of regional differences in gas prices is the cost of buying or leasing land to put filling stations on. I get that dirt is a lot more expensive in California compared to most places, but Oregon?

 

[bleme]

Oregon state gas tax is $0.38/gallon. That's twelve cents more than here in Virginia. So what's the other $1.75? Other than state excise taxes, the biggest driver of regional differences in gas prices is the cost of buying or leasing land to put filling stations on. I get that dirt is a lot more expensive in California compared to most places, but Oregon?

California posts a breakdown of gas prices but the $.66 in taxes doesn't come close to explaining the $2 difference. I suspect our crude and refining prices are inflated as well.

 

[erikn68]

I will not get a straight electric car. I would only consider a hybrid that has a gas option. But their pricing is too expensive. I live in Minnesota and if you travel outside of Minneapolis/st paul, there are no chargers to be seen. I have only seen chargers in ramps or the tesla onces at target. Without a gas option, you would be up a creek without a paddle.

 

[TwistedGray]

I will not get a straight electric car. I would only consider a hybrid that has a gas option. But their pricing is too expensive. I live in Minnesota and if you travel outside of Minneapolis/st paul, there are no chargers to be seen. I have only seen chargers in ramps or the tesla onces at target. Without a gas option, you would be up a creek without a paddle.

Are you sure there are no chargers? Are you looking through the various charging apps to confirm this or just your impression?

 

[Kent88]

I will not get a straight electric car. I would only consider a hybrid that has a gas option. But their pricing is too expensive. I live in Minnesota and if you travel outside of Minneapolis/st paul, there are no chargers to be seen. I have only seen chargers in ramps or the tesla onces at target. Without a gas option, you would be up a creek without a paddle.

Off the top of my head, there are chargers in at least Rochester and Mankato. I think Owatonna, Austin, and Albert Lea have a few apiece. Duluth doesn't have as many as I think it should, and I think Blue Earth might have some by the Giant. Wouldn't surprise me if New Ulm had a couple.

 

[Sailingeric]

Oregon state gas tax is $0.38/gallon. That's twelve cents more than here in Virginia. So what's the other $1.75? Other than state excise taxes, the biggest driver of regional differences in gas prices is the cost of buying or leasing land to put filling stations on. I get that dirt is a lot more expensive in California compared to most places, but Oregon?

The other $1.75 or so for the rest of the west coast...because oil companies can use the excuse of "refinery maintenance" and in Oregon we don't have self serve so some of it is for paying the gas pump attendant. I am actually surprised the gas tax is not higher, since we have a low flat car tag fee. When I moved to Oregon almost 30 years ago it was one of the higher gas tax states.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I will not get a straight electric car.

Nobody is telling you what to do. However two of the most dangerous words in our language are "always" and "never". It may be that an electric car is not the right option for you today, or even in the near future. But as with anything, keep an open mind because it might change down the road.

I would only consider a hybrid that has a gas option. But their pricing is too expensive.

I think the PHEV was an interim step. For 90% of PHEV owners, the range, cost, and charging infrastructure for BEV vehicles make them obsolete. For the drivers who absolutely need ICEV (towing, long distance daily driving, etc), a PHEV doesn't offer enough benefit relative to pure ICEV to justify the cost. Ultimately, I don't think PHEV survive long term, and if they do, will always be a niche vehicle.

I live in Minnesota and if you travel outside of Minneapolis/st paul, there are no chargers to be seen. I have only seen chargers in ramps or the tesla onces at target. Without a gas option, you would be up a creek without a paddle.

Maybe (without looking at charging locations) that's true. However, I'd suggest you think about two things:

1. Charging infrastructure in 2023 isn't the same as what it'll be in 2025 or 2030. It might not be adequate now, but it will improve.
2. If you've got a garage, carport, or at least a driveway, you have a charger as local to you as is possible--at your house. As long as you don't need to completely retrofit your electrical service or add another circuit, installing an L2 charger is pretty manageable cost. In that case you only need to worry about charging infrastructure on the occasions you exceed your BEV battery. Depending on your driving habits, that could be every day or it might only be a handful of times a year.

-----------------

Life changes. I looked at EVs when I needed a car in 2017. At the time, there was absolutely nothing that fit my life and budget better than the used 2014 Ford Flex that I ended up buying. The charging infrastructure was insufficient, and the vehicle options didn't meet my needs or budget. My next vehicle will probably be purchased somewhere around 2027 or later. By that point, EV will be a compelling option and I might (or might not) go that route at that time. Either way, I'm keeping an open mind and will do what is best for my driving habits and situation at that time in my life.

 

[Airborneguy]

Minnesota is somewhere under there. I could zoom in further, revealing far more, but then you’d have zero shot of seeing the state.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Oregon state gas tax is $0.38/gallon. That's twelve cents more than here in Virginia. So what's the other $1.75? Other than state excise taxes, the biggest driver of regional differences in gas prices is the cost of buying or leasing land to put filling stations on. I get that dirt is a lot more expensive in California compared to most places, but Oregon?

Oregon isn't all that cheap for real estate. I don't know how they figure the averages, but it would be stupid if they don't weight it for the actual total purchases of gasoline where they exist--and those in the populated (i.e. expensive) areas would then dominate.

So I would think that land values are affecting Oregon prices.

California posts a breakdown of gas prices but the $.66 in taxes doesn't come close to explaining the $2 difference. I suspect our crude and refining prices are inflated as well.

I don't know how big of an issue it is, but we also have unique blend requirements that as far as I am aware means that refiners need to make a CA-only product for us. I'm sure that makes a difference.

But I think a huge portion of it as well is land cost.

The other $1.75 or so for the rest of the west coast...because oil companies can use the excuse of "refinery maintenance" and in Oregon we don't have self serve so some of it is for paying the gas pump attendant. I am actually surprised the gas tax is not higher, since we have a low flat car tag fee. When I moved to Oregon almost 30 years ago it was one of the higher gas tax states.

Hey, I heard you're finally going to be able to pump your own gas now!

 

[mac_1103]

two of the most dangerous words in our language are "always" and "never"

I always try to avoid saying never.

 

[RePete]

Little enough that it’s worth the switch or NOT worth the switch? I’m like you, I drive between 25-30k per year, so switching for me was a no brainer. But those who drive low mileage annually won’t see a benefit.

Not. thanks for pointing out my error. I edited the comment.

 

[passedpawn]

Nobody is telling you what to do. However two of the most dangerous words in our language are "always" and "never".

He didn't say either of your dangerous words.

 

[Kharnynb]

I wish gasoline here was as cheap as 4.50 a gallon....I like the idea of electric cars, but until battery tech gets safer and less reliant on filthy production it's just a step in-between.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

He didn't say either of your dangerous words.

Oh, I know. The tone of the statement was definitive and not time-bound, so I read a "never" into it.

 

[Bilsch]

I wish gasoline here was as cheap as 4.50 a gallon....I like the idea of electric cars, but until battery tech gets safer and less reliant on filthy production it's just a step in-between.

I'm curious where you got the idea battery manufacturing or the chemicals used therein were somehow dirty? Lithium mining is comparable to the way salt is produced. And for the life of me I can't remember the last time we heard of a lithium platform in the gulf exploding or a manganese tanker hitting a reef and spilling it's contents into the ocean. But even if those chemicals were exceptionally environmentally damaging to produce, which they are not, battery packs are 95% recyclable compared to petroleum fuels which are zero percent.

As for the danger, you are 65 times more likely to have a fire in a gas car then an EV. So says the NHTSA and NFPA data anyway.

Also interestingly the highest safety rated car in the world is all electric.

 

[sibelman]

Lithium mining is comparable to the way salt is produced.

Could be. But this sounds like an effort to minimize or deny the adverse effects of lithium mining. Irrespective of how it compares to salt production, it's believed by some to inflict substantial harms. The Guardian posted this by a "climate justice reporter" who casts a jaundiced eye on the subject.

Even if the article is correct and lithium mines are rather nasty, it just begs the question: would/wouldn't sticking with fossil fuels for cars and trucks be (even) worse than the harm of using electric vehicles?

Other questions include: wouldn't it be better if we drove (and flew!) less, ate less meat, moderated the thermostat settings, etc. etc.? Also, can we find better ways to make steel, concrete, and even salt I guess?