Please help. Wife made me do PowerPoint for electric brewery budget approval

[johnwpowell]

I'm an AG brewer of 7 years and been in the garage with propane. We are moving to a house with a detached garage and there’s no running water and it’s not practical to run stuff back and forth inside to clean. Bottom line I can’t brew until I get an indoor electric brewing solution. She’s on board—she gets the house and I get an indoor brew room.

She made me put together a PowerPoint and convince her what I need and how much it will cost.

She is on board with a dedicated room with ventilation, stainless tables, utility sink, etc, but I can’t figure out what the “best” electric brew setup is for my situation.

I’m really struggling to justify the expense of a controller that I can grow into and retrofitting my existing investment compared to the grainfather. Dollar for dollar, the all in one system has more juice for the squeeze and I can’t prove otherwise. Best I can come up with as a counter is that I can’t do 10 gallon batches and it heats slower.

I had this conversation with my wife “so let me get this straight. You can spend about 1200 on the grainfather (with coat and sparge heater) and have better temp control and easier clean up than your electric system?”

Let me explain....

I have 2 Chugger pumps, a plate chiller, nice kettle and use coolers for HLT and MT. I can’t do a step mash now and my efficiency is in the high 60s to low 70s.

Cheapest I can get into electric brewing retrofitting my kettle and pulling the circuit with a super basic knob controller is $500. I could go with the Auber Cube and be around $1000 and still can’t step mash and still using coolers. Or next option I could go with the SS 1v controller and be at $1100 and permanently limited. 2V controller puts me at $1600 and I still wouldnt have a second heated vessel for that price. Next option is to add another vessel/mash tun and I’m at $2000 to have the same capabilities as the grainfather.

If I was a bachelor, I’d have theelctricbrewery setup, but since I don’t want to be single, must compromise.

I’m having a hard time justifying what I want.

FWIW I’m pretty handy (as most home brewers are), and DIY is an option.

What’s the best solution? Please be opinionated.

 

[doug293cz]

You should be able to get the Auber Cube upgraded to use the DSPR320, which is step mash capable. You already have the pumps, so a recirculating e-BIAB could be an option.

Edit: Just checked, and Auber's CUBE 2 comes standard with the DSPR320.

Brew on

 

[johnwpowell]

You should be able to get the Auber Cube upgraded to use the DSPR320, which is step mash capable. You already have the pumps, so a recirculating e-BIAB could be an option.

Brew on

Could you walk me through how the recirculating e-BIAB brewing process works?

 

[doug293cz]

Could you walk me through how the recirculating e-BIAB brewing process works?

Sure. Probably be Wed. before I can write up a good description. To help me know where I should start, how much do you know about the BIAB (brew in a bag/basket) process?

Brew on

 

[johnwpowell]

Sure. Probably be Wed. before I can write up a good description. To help me know where I should start, how much do you know about the BIAB (brew in a bag/basket) process?

All I really know is the grain goes in a big tea bag and you got to hoist it out .
Brew on

 

[TBC]

So if I knew then what I know now. I never would have invested in a propane system and would have went electric right from the start.

Having said that I went from a 3 tier propane gravity system to the grainfather. I love the grainfather. My brew days are quicker and I have better efficiency and repeatability with the grainfather.

Now the drawbacks are batch size, grain bill and your heating times. The batch size is fine for me as I brew no more than 5 gallons at a time. I also purchased the micro pipework so I can brew 2 1/2 gallons at a time. Cost for the micro pipework is $35.

I believe the grain bill max is 18lbs. I do brew some big beers RIS and an upcoming Barleywine. I just supplement my batch with DME or honey to get a higher OG.

My biggest gripe was the temperature ramp time. From ground water temp to mash, mash to mash out and then mash out to boil. I eventually broke down and bought a hot rod heat stick to speed up my ramp times.

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/hotrodrtu.htm

I love it and it saves about 30-45 minutes during my brew day and the cleaning cycle. Hope this helps a little. Good Luck. You will enjoy electric brewing in the house!

 

[zeptrey]

High Gravity Wart hog controller, blichmann boil coil, you already have the pump that will save some dough. EBiab is cheapest and easiest but you could easily do a 2 vessel with the items mentioned above and another kettle.

https://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/Brewing-Systems-c269.htm

They have videos explaining setup and use of all their systems I believe. I know for sure the ebiab setup has a couple vids.

 

[brewbama]

I used to use propane outside in a two vessel system. To use equipment I already had (sunk cost) I simply added a pump, an induction cooktop, and a vent hood. I could have done it without the pump but lifting several gallons of hot liquid chest high is not exactly the safest thing I’ve done.

After I was inside, I later added a RIMS tube and controller.

 

[bracconiere]

Tell your wife it's either electric or your going to use the stove to brew! and show her this pic.....

but i do love my NG brewing!!!

 

[mongoose33]

What kind of help are you looking for? Divorce lawyer recommendation?

I presume the powerpoint is done and she's convinced?

I went to electric brewing this past summer and into the fall. I built the Auber Instruments Kit-Brew panel (pic attached), added a tri-clamp port to my 10-gallon kettle into which I installed a 5500-watt electric element, added a RIMS system separately, and a steam-slayer to control the steam.

Biggest reason I went to electric brewing? So I could brew in my garage in the winter. Secondary issues were to support some LODO stuff, be able to manage mash temps more effectively, and heat water without having to babysit a propane burner.

I'm wondering about your efficiency: seem awfully low to me. I'm not sure electric brewing will do anything for that.

Further, why the concern with step mashes? What are you going to be able to accomplish that you cannot do now?

********

I'm wondering if anyone has every cobbled a system together and gotten everything correct right off the bat. Part of the fun is in figuring it all out, and you can plan until you're blue in the face, produce powerpoints, imagine all the possibilities you can, and still you will face the following: no battle plan every survives contact with the enemy.

This is supposed to be fun. It doesn't sound so much like that.

*********

And as far as justifying anything, here's the only justification I've needed: I wanted to do it because I thought it would please me. And even when it doesn't quite do that, there's fun in correcting it. Brewing for me isn't about saving money; it's about the process, and the fun, and producing good beer.

Case in point: i recently installed a self-priming transfer pump to move water from aquatainers to the kettle so I am not lifting so much (two back surgeries). Tonite I realized I needed to put a different backer board on the bench where the kettle sits, so as to move that pump more out of the way and less prone to being bumped. That wasn't apparent until it was installed. To do this, I needed a couple of fittings from the home store.

I didn't foresee this. If you'd asked me to specify everything I needed ahead of time, I'd have been wrong. So I think other than general specification of basic parts, you should try to avoid specifying every last nut and bolt. In addition to that being virtually impossible, it'll suck the fun out of the whole enterprise.

My 2 cents. Good luck, and keep us updated as to how the project proceeds.

 

[6Tap]

Keep it simple.

Take out the largest loan you can and charge the system
You want to by. Make sure to buy everything you need at once so you only need to ask for forgiveness to the wife once!
Don’t put anything in writing to the wife!
Cheers [emoji482]

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I comes down to what you WANT not NEED.

All you NEED is heat and a pot.

I went simple and built a controller for around $75

Got a 20 gallon pot for 10 gallon batches for around $100 and drilled a hole for a 5500w element.

That was 5 years ago and still dont feel the need to upgrade anything...and never will. I just put this pic on another thread. MY ENTIRE brew setup in one giant pot...Thats how I would do it because thats how I did do it

Take your extra $700 and look like a hero to the wife

You would need 220 power in the area.

Of course you would have a nice table leave it setup on

 

[Blazinlow86]

My advice would be unless your doing batches larger than 10gallons convert your current kettle into a electric 240v biab setup and retire the coolers. I have a electric brewery clone which works excellent for my typical 18 gallon batches but it can be overkill for 5-10g. Mongoose33 has a nice biab setup. I'd probably clone that. Cheers

 

[S-Met]

I'm confused, but that is my norm. I'm also not an electric brewer, so no help from me on this side other than robo-brew and a someone else too makes a system about 1/2-1/3 the price of the grainfather. However, none of this matters.


What does matter: the story! And with this I can help!

What do yo want?
What do you have?
What do you need?
What do you hope to achieve?
What do you normally brew and how often does it exceed 5gal?
Would you be willing to substitute dme/honey/sugar to boost your og if it exceeds the capacity of a grainfather(or similar)?
Do you have electricity? 240?
Running h2o?
Drainage?
Any construction?
Added ventilation?
Dual purpose for other hobbies?

What is your budget? What s the flex in said budget?

Now for setting the story:
What value can your system add to the marriage?
Can the area be used for gatherings?
Can prep area be used to help with...
You can boil h2o for 20lb of potatoes fpr all 35 of your favorite family on thanksgiving.
Does your wife like your brew?
Or does she like to get rid of you for hours and take advantage of your brew time for her time?
Do you entertain the boys? (Or girls)?
Is this man cave territory?
Does your brewery offer anything else for multi-purpose (family)?

It sounds like your wife wants you to "sell" her on your system. Lets tell your story!

 

[Jayjay1976]

First of all, she sounds large & in charge, and I like that. Nice pull, bruh.

Myself, I really liked the wort hog setup, but didn't have a grand to drop on one so I built a clone of it, tailored to my particular application for about half the cost. Works great, elec. BIAB in a single vessel is simple, easy, and fun. An Auber ez-boil is at the heart of my system, its a great device and worth every penny.

 

[johnwpowell]

Thanks guys. Lots of great advice here.

2 things I need to look into is BIAB and possibly DIYing my own panel.
I never considered it BIAB before now and need to better understand what a brew day is like with it.

I’ve been through a few progressions and equipment changes and really want something that will give me a lifetime of enjoyment. I don’t mind being a little wrong on this decision but not totally wrong. I brew every few weeks (5-10 gallons) and want quality and reliability. It’s ok if I don’t buy everything up front as long as I don’t box myself in. I can embezzle some money from the marriage next year for add ons.

What I want is theelectricbrewery.com (or spike) setup. What I need is probably the Grain father, but I can see myself making some excuse next year why I need the 3 vessel system in addition to it.

Maybe my problem is I’ve got it in my head the 3 vessel system is the gold standard and maybe that just isn’t the case.

 

[PrrCabin]

What kind of help are you looking for? Divorce lawyer recommendation?

I presume the powerpoint is done and she's convinced?

I went to electric brewing this past summer and into the fall. I built the Auber Instruments Kit-Brew panel (pic attached), added a tri-clamp port to my 10-gallon kettle into which I installed a 5500-watt electric element, added a RIMS system separately, and a steam-slayer to control the steam.

Biggest reason I went to electric brewing? So I could brew in my garage in the winter. Secondary issues were to support some LODO stuff, be able to manage mash temps more effectively, and heat water without having to babysit a propane burner.

I'm wondering about your efficiency: seem awfully low to me. I'm not sure electric brewing will do anything for that.

Further, why the concern with step mashes? What are you going to be able to accomplish that you cannot do now?

********

I'm wondering if any has every cobbled a system together and gotten everything correct right off the bat? Part of the fun is in figuring it all out, and you can plan until you're blue in the face, produce powerpoints, imagine all the possibilities you can, and still you will face the following: no battle plan every survives contact with the enemy.

This is supposed to be fun. It doesn't sound so much like that.

*********

And as far as justifying anything, here's the only justification I've needed: I wanted to do it because I thought it would please me. And even when it doesn't quite do that, there's fun in correcting it. Brewing isn't about saving money; it's about the process, and the fun, and producing good beer.

Case in point: i recently installed a self-priming transfer pump to move water from aquatainers to the kettle so I am not lifting so much (two back surgeries). Tonite I realized I needed to put a different backer board on the bench where the kettle sits, so as to move that pump more out of the way and less prone to being bumped. That wasn't apparent until it was installed. To do this, I needed a couple of fittings from the home store.

I didn't foresee this. If you'd asked me to specify everything I needed ahead of time, I'd have been wrong. So I think other than general specification of basic parts, you should try to avoid specifying every last nut and bolt. In addition to that being virtually impossible, it'll suck the fun out of the whole enterprise.

My 2 cents. Good luck, and keep us updated as to how the project proceeds.

View attachment 613695

Love the phone !!!

Cabin

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

I never considered it BIAB before now and need to better understand what a brew day is like with it.


Maybe my problem is I’ve got it in my head the 3 vessel system is the gold standard and maybe that just isn’t the case.

Plenty of award winning beers made with BIAB. Three vessel is not the gold standard...maybe the Gold Bar because it cost 3 times more than BIAB but thats about it. You beer will be the same either way

A brew goes like this:
Fill a pot with water. Stick a bag in the pot. Fill bag with grain. An hour later pull bag with grain out of pot. Boil. Clean one pot...done....thats it in a nutshell. It couldnt be simpler and easier and makes commercial grade beer

 

[Jayjay1976]

If you switch to BIAB you can use a much finer crush without fear of a stuck sparge; that change in combination with a thinner mash will boost your efficiency quite a bit. I brew this way and my efficiency hovers between 70-75% even with bigger beers.

I use an 11 gallon (44qt) bayou kettle with two 1500W elements powered off two 110V outlets on different circuits. I did this because I wanted 220V performance but the flexibility to brew in my kitchen which doesn't have a 220V outlet. My controller has two isolated SSRs to manage the elements separately with a single controller. This combo was inexpensive to build and gives excellent performance; I generally regulate the output down to 80% once boil is achieved to keep it at a nice steady vigorous boil. My kettle has three wraps of reflectix insulation which helps efficiency and I use a MKII pump to recirculate the wort through my DIY counterflow chiller to bring it down to pitching temps.

 

[Bilsch]

She made me put together a PowerPoint and convince her what I need and how much it will cost.

Funny. My mom would do stuff like this to me as a kid to 'convince' her I needed something.

 

[johnwpowell]

Im really leaning towards a 2 vessel setup and started a new thread on this. I like the idea of having a separate mash tun and not having to lift a bag.

 

[TwistedGray]

@johnwpowell - Someone said, I can't recall who (Palmer?), that the difference between a multi-tier system and a BIAB system is that with a multi-tier system you are taking the wort off the grain; whereas, with a BIAB system (eBIAB or traditional) you are taking the grain off the wort. That is literally the only difference, and a eBIAB system will cost you pennies on the dollar, and it will take up an extremely small footprint.

If I were in your boat I would buy several Mash & Boil eBIAB systems and buy the pump(s) separate if you find them necessary. You can mash and boil in this single urn as well as ferment (+$40 for the fermentation lid). The downside is that maximum capacity is 5 gallons; however, I don't even do 5 gallon batches anymore. Within this system you can also kettle sour (holds temp for unlimited period of time) and hold fermentation temperatures. The reason I would buy multiples is so that you don't lost the ability to brew because you chose to ferment in one.

 

[doublehaul]

If you are asking me to help you justify to your wife what system you need then I say you can not adequately brew with anything less than a 20 gallon 3 vessel Spike Pilot System. Anything less would make subpar beer, plus what would the neighbors think if they saw you in the garage brewing with some cobbled together EBIAB setup?! If that helps you sell it you can buy me a beer (I doubt it will if she's asking for a powerpoint presenation!)

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

^^ good point^^

At least get get a 12" sight tube....she'll love that

 

[beernutz]

I'm an AG brewer of 7 years and been in the garage with propane. We are moving to a house with a detached garage and there’s no running water and it’s not practical to run stuff back and forth inside to clean. [snip]

I brew outside and just use a hose for water with an RV water filter (optional) on the end. Is a hose not an option?

 

[Jayjay1976]

I proposed to my wife with a powerpoint slideshow. It's all in the fancy transitions, I tell ya.

Joking aside, if she really has to be convinced just skip the asking. Me personally, I'd rather beg for forgiveness than ask for permission.

 

[S-Met]

Im really leaning towards a 2 vessel setup and started a new thread on this. I like the idea of having a separate mash tun and not having to lift a bag.

Pulley system. Can make it electric for low cost.

 

[NeverDie]

It might help if you made a habit of brewing something that your wife really, really liked....

 

[Dland]

I like my three vessel system, now electric, still behind the garage, but if you got to brew in the kitchen or something the BAIB is probably better.

If one brews outside and or of the way, might be easier to concentrate on brew, stay focused and relax, 'cause you are not in anyone's way, even(or especially) if they want to make a cup of coffee.

Good advice brewing tasty brews that will be enjoyed on the home front.

As to the three point presentation, well, if you have been sitting around while she is working to pay bills, maybe you owe it to her. otherwise, maybe I'd start counting whatever she likes,, I don't know..shoes,,,pets,,children,,see which costs more ;}

3 point hitch is something else, and you know what is next..the PTO.

 

[S-Met]

I don't think the wif is saying not to spend the $$$, she's alread on board. $$$ does not appear to be the issue based on tge initial post:

She is on board with a dedicated room with ventilation, stainless tables, utility sink, etc, but I can’t figure out what the “best” electric brew setup is for my situation

I think she is responsibley asking," lets look at what we have, what is needed, and what type of capital investment this will require." Essentially, wanting to avoid dropping a bunch of $$$ only to be surprised by dropping a whole bunch more.

 

[mongoose33]

Im really leaning towards a 2 vessel setup and started a new thread on this. I like the idea of having a separate mash tun and not having to lift a bag.

I have a BK, a MT (another kettle w/ reflectix wrapped around it), for my 2-vessel system.

I also have a RIMS setup....and it occurred to me it's really a 3-vessel system. That RIMS tube is the 3rd vessel, like a HERMS kettle though not a kettle.

 

[bracconiere]

I don't think the wif is saying not to spend the $$$, she's alread on board. $$$ does not appear to be the issue based on tge initial post:


I think she is responsibley asking," lets look at what we have, what is needed, and what type of capital investment this will require." Essentially, wanting to avoid dropping a bunch of $$$ only to be surprised by dropping a whole bunch more.

I had this conversation with my wife “so let me get this straight. You can spend about 1200 on the grainfather (with coat and sparge heater) and have better temp control and easier clean up than your electric system?”

my post was just trying to bump the budget, so i can get more fancy beer equipment porn!

 

[mongoose33]

OK, it's time for us to stop pussyfooting around. I'm going to tell you how much money you're going to have into this enterprise by the time you're done.

Ready?

$5000.

There. Tell her. Then get busy.

 

[6Tap]

Tell her $10k max but only spend $5k and you will come out looking like a hero! [emoji482]

 

[Jeremydc]

Tagged for interest

 

[Backslide]

eBIAB is the way to go imho. I'm shocked that no one mentioned Grounded Brewing tech. I have their 15g kettle, basket and a panel. Fantastic stuff for cheap. Check them out

 

[brewingmeister]

Buy a garden hose that reaches the garage and you are done.

 

[johnwpowell]

I don't think the wif is saying not to spend the $$$, she's alread on board. $$$ does not appear to be the issue based on tge initial post:


I think she is responsibley asking," lets look at what we have, what is needed, and what type of capital investment this will require." Essentially, wanting to avoid dropping a bunch of $$$ only to be surprised by dropping a whole bunch more.

That's exactly right. She kept saying "how much" and I didn't have an answer...and then I realized I had no plan.

 

[johnwpowell]

Buy a garden hose that reaches the garage and you are done.

At the risk of sounding whiny, the garage is about 200ft away, there is nowhere to drain without pissing all the neighbors off and cleaning would be a pain the ass without hot water. nearby Plus I can't wait to brew inside all year long!

 

[brewingmeister]

At the risk of sounding whiny, the garage is about 200ft away, there is nowhere to drain without pissing all the neighbors off and cleaning would be a pain the ass without hot water. nearby Plus I can't wait to brew inside all year long!

Ok a couple hoses.

What's with the neighbors not understanding how water goes into the 200 ft of ground between your house and the garage? That's confusing. Do you ever wash your car? Water your garden?

Hot water to clean, not sure I've ever had that.