Plate Chiller First Use Lessons Learned

[TheMadKing]

Ok, I've been brewing a good while and have a set system down. On a whim I bought a plate chiller on sale and today was the first use.

Pros: Chilled faster than an immersion chiller overall, it can be mounted and hard plumbed in place for quicker use

Cons:
-twice as many hoses,
-didn't chill in a single pass because I have warm water so all the trub in my kettle was boiling hot, and my wort is stuck in the fermentor at 102F
-it clogged because I used loose pellet hops
-my garden hose connectors leaked but once it was going it was too hot to touch to fix anything
-I had to backflush it with pressurized water for 15 minutes before hop particles stopped coming out

Despite the large list of cons, I think I can overcome all of them and make this a better system than my trusty immersion chiller.

Here's my lessons learned:

-Never use loose hops with a plate chiller, pellet or otherwise. I will always be using a hop spider or sock
-Always recirculate your wort back into the kettle to chill everything below 100F so that it's easier to handle/clean when you're done
-Keep silicon potholder gloves on hand just in case
-Mount it to something and minimize how many hookups you need to make before using it
-Install a ball valve on the outlet side of my pump to optimize my wort flow and make chilling more efficient
-Buy a bigger pump
-Buy dedicated garden hoses so you're sure they have good gaskets and won't leak


Anyone who has anything to add or thinks I was being a dipsh*t please feel free to opine

 

[iijakii]

Sounds like a headache, still worth it for slightly quicker chilling?

I got rid of mine when even after a hop spider I still had the endless flushing. I think they're awful from a HB point of view personally.

 

[Qhrumphf]

-Whirlpool first, and then a side drain, and/or a kettle wall. Or a spider works too. That'll be easier and doesn't require modding a kettle.

-Pump ice water, not ground water.

For standard 5-10 gal batches, no they're really not that useful. If you're brewing 20 gal+ batches that might be a different story.

 

[schematix]

Sounds like a lot of work to me.... i started with a plate chiller on brew day 1, but ultimately replaced it with an IC. Cools slightly slower but when you consider all the things you mention, it's overall much faster, and the best part is it can't clog.

I do use the old plate chiller still for a water chilling loop and even though it hasn't seen anything other than hot water in almsot 2 years, hops and other debris still come out each time i use it...

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Sounds like a headache, still worth it for slightly quicker chilling?

I got rid of mine when even after a hop spider I still had the endless flushing. I think they're awful from a HB point of view personally.

So iijakii, what do you use?

I never had an issue with an IC - just had another one feeding the BK chiller, in a sink full of icewater, if tap water was a bit too warm - but I'm probably moving up to 15 or better brewlengths. That's why I'm looking at the PC because I don't know if an IC will do.

 

[iijakii]

So iijakii, what do you use?

I never had an issue with an IC - just had another one feeding the BK chiller, in a sink full of icewater, if tap water was a bit too warm - but I'm probably moving up to 15 or better brewlengths. That's why I'm looking at the PC because I don't know if an IC will do.

I'm happy with my IC personally, but I'd go to a CFC if not.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I'm happy with my IC personally, but I'd go to a CFC if not.

OK, thanks. The issue with clogging up with pellets is worrisome to me, because there's nothing I hate more than to stop a brew because of some malfunction or other (probably mentioned it - nothing like decocting at -10F, can't get a clear vorlauf, finally figure out your false bottom has come free and is floating around your mash...).

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I was sure I wanted a plate chiller when I first started all grain. I had a crappy immersion chiller that I got in a lot of used equipment that I couldn't wait to replace. While searching for info on plate chillers I came across a blog discussing the pros and cons of different chillers. This got me researching more comparisons.

The bottom line is that I concluded that immersion chillers are far superior for 5 gallon brewers.

My replacement will be a Hydra.

 

[passedpawn]

Ok, I've been brewing a good while and have a set system down. On a whim I bought a plate chiller on sale and today was the first use.

Pros: Chilled faster than an immersion chiller overall, it can be mounted and hard plumbed in place for quicker use

Cons:
-twice as many hoses,
-didn't chill in a single pass because I have warm water so all the trub in my kettle was boiling hot, and my wort is stuck in the fermentor at 102F
-it clogged because I used loose pellet hops
-my garden hose connectors leaked but once it was going it was too hot to touch to fix anything
-I had to backflush it with pressurized water for 15 minutes before hop particles stopped coming out

Despite the large list of cons, I think I can overcome all of them and make this a better system than my trusty immersion chiller.

Here's my lessons learned:

-Never use loose hops with a plate chiller, pellet or otherwise. I will always be using a hop spider or sock
-Always recirculate your wort back into the kettle to chill everything below 100F so that it's easier to handle/clean when you're done
-Keep silicon potholder gloves on hand just in case
-Mount it to something and minimize how many hookups you need to make before using it
-Install a ball valve on the outlet side of my pump to optimize my wort flow and make chilling more efficient
-Buy a bigger pump
-Buy dedicated garden hoses so you're sure they have good gaskets and won't leak


Anyone who has anything to add or thinks I was being a dipsh*t please feel free to opine

Sounds about right. I used one for many years, mostly without issues. But like you, on a whim I bought a coaxial CFC (JaDeD Cyclone). Happier with it, mainly because it can be cleaned.

 

[applescrap]

Really nice review of the plate chiller madking. It was because of good reviews like this that I chose ics as the best route for me. My plan for pc was quick disconnects from brewhardware, so i could clean and dry hoses quickly and easily. I chill 5g batches in 5 to 7 minutes with a 40 dollarc ic, which sounds cool, but its physical. So every method has its pros and cons. Good hop filter action is key to these chillers along with a good oxy soak from what I have read. Recirculation with boiling hot oxy, maybe.

 

[schematix]

Sounds about right. I used one for many years, mostly without issues. But like you, on a whim I bought a coaxial CFC (JaDeD Cyclone). Happier with it, mainly because it can be cleaned.

No maggots either, i bet.

 

[passedpawn]

No maggots either, i bet.

not yet

 

[TheMadKing]

Thanks for all the great input and discussion guys. It sounds like there's a lot of general dislike for plate chillers.

There are several members of my homebrew club who swear by them, so when I saw one at $50 I had to give it a shot.

I'm going to incorporate my lessons learned on a second batch and see if I can use it headache free.

I already use camlock fittings on everything so the connections are fairly straightforward. I also already have a sump pump, a ball valve, and a hop sock, so it might not be a big deal for me to get this thing to work headache free. If I still don't like it after a few brews I'll sell it and buy a cfc. I've used an immersion chiller for years and I don't like how many steps it takes to use.

Ideally I'd like a chiller that's stationary on my brew stand, I just hook up a couple houses, turn a ball valve and have a beer. I think the cfc can be made to do that, but I think cleaning it might become an issue.

I'll figure out what works for me eventually!

 

[wyowolf]

Get a SS filter, then you can run it however you wish. yes you have to deal with water temps, but you will no matter what system you run. in the winter I can easily chill in one pass...
just flush it out immediately after use with hot water... back and forth a few time... never had any issues with mine... every now and then i put some PBW in kettle and crank it to 180 or so and run through the hoses and filter chiller etc.. never had anything come out...

the key is the filter keeping it out...

https://www.brewershardware.com/Wort-Strainers/

CFC chillers might be ok... never used one... immersion are the slowest... i saved a huge amount of time when I got rid of mine... even after cleaning PC. Like i said immediately blast it with hot water both ways and make sure its dry...

best money I ever spent.

 

[TheMadKing]

Get a SS filter, then you can run it however you wish. yes you have to deal with water temps, but you will no matter what system you run. in the winter I can easily chill in one pass...
just flush it out immediately after use with hot water... back and forth a few time... never had any issues with mine... every now and then i put some PBW in kettle and crank it to 180 or so and run through the hoses and filter chiller etc.. never had anything come out...

the key is the filter keeping it out...

https://www.brewershardware.com/Wort-Strainers/

CFC chillers might be ok... never used one... immersion are the slowest... i saved a huge amount of time when I got rid of mine... even after cleaning PC. Like i said immediately blast it with hot water both ways and make sure its dry...

best money I ever spent.

Unfortunately those strainers won't work with my system without serious modification of my kettle. I use camlock fittings on the outlet of my ball valve, and have a standard pass-through ball valve with a dip tube on my kettle.

If I have to rebuild my system around the chiller, I would rather just get a different chiller.

I'll look into a strainer that will fit my dip tube though, thanks!

 

[wyowolf]

Unfortunately those strainers won't work with my system without serious modification of my kettle. I use camlock fittings on the outlet of my ball valve, and have a standard pass-through ball valve with a dip tube on my kettle.

If I have to rebuild my system around the chiller, I would rather just get a different chiller.

I'll look into a strainer that will fit my dip tube though, thanks!

oh i see, surely there is some fairly easy way to adapt to cam fittings?

 

[bassmang4]

I use a hop spider and a counterflow Zchiller with quick disconnects. Never had anything close to a clog. When done, back flush with clean water from the faucet with hose, then recirculate w homemade PBW from boil kettle through pump through CFC and back to clean all. Rather easy. If you have reasonable ground water temp and a pump, I can't see why you wouldnt use one.

 

[TheMadKing]

oh i see, surely there is some fairly easy way to adapt to cam fittings?

I could probably do a cam to tri-clamp adaptor yes, but that would add at least another 2" of length to the fittings outside my kettle.. so it would go:

kettle wall -> ball valve (4"), adaptor (2"), strainer (4"), Pump (4"), hoses... That's a little much sticking out of my kettle for my liking.

 

[wyowolf]

ok, i see.... I just thinking camlock on one end, barb on other end of the hose... none of mine is mounted to the table so i can easily move./ clean it later...

mine just sits on the table between the chiller/pump

 

[TheMadKing]

ok, i see.... I just thinking camlock on one end, barb on other end of the hose... none of mine is mounted to the table so i can easily move./ clean it later...

mine just sits on the table between the chiller/pump

Oh I gotcha! I didn't think of using it in-line on the tubing. Once I can afford to upgrade to a chugger pump and have everything mounted to my brew stand, that is probably exactly what I'll do. Thanks!

 

[wyowolf]

here is a pic, i changed it a bit, now i just lay it next to chiller, and shortend the hoses... it looks a bit cluttered... but it comes apart in minutes..

 

[passedpawn]

I think the cfc can be made to do that, but I think cleaning it might become an issue.

The JaDeD CFC that I mentioned earlier is very easy to clean. 100% visual access to all interior of all wort-carrying channels, and comes with brush. Almost the perfect chiller (IMO )

 

[TheMadKing]

here is a pic, i changed it a bit, now i just lay it next to chiller, and shortend the hoses... it looks a bit cluttered... but it comes apart in minutes..

See my engineer-OCD just kicked in hard core I'll post a pic later on when I get mine all plumbed in.

 

[TheMadKing]

The JaDeD CFC that I mentioned earlier is very easy to clean. 100% visual access to all interior of all wort-carrying channels, and comes with brush. Almost the perfect chiller (IMO )

I'm still leaning toward switching to a CFC... but a plate chiller is just so dang thermally efficient, and its a beautiful piece of engineering.

 

[wyowolf]

It def is, it will cool to damn near whatever the water temp is in one pass flat, as fast as the pump will pump it through... now in summer its around 72 but in winter will easily be low 50s, i have to slow the water down in winter else its too cold...

sorry for the clutter, but like i said, its just min to set up, the pump and all is already in the system, I just hook up the filter/chiller after recirc/boil part is done...

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

I used to use a plate chiller exclusively for brewing 10 gallon batches, and would always single-pass chill it straight to the fermenter.

• Always whirlpool before draining.
• Keep the dip tube away from the center.
• Throttle the flow of the wort to achieve max cooling.
• A thermometer at the wort output is helpful .
• Stop draining the kettle when you see the break material entering the dip tube.
• Always clean/flush throughly after use.

[edit] Sorry, forgot to add that I've never used a hop spider.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I'm probably just being stubborn, but having slept on this, if commercial breweries can do it, why can't we? Meaning, an effective whirlpool protocol and clean wort going out (I had it, by being slow with the outlet valve, always), and a good, vigorous and hot backflushing with an alkaline (caustic?) followed by acid wash, for the PC?

Using a hop spider goes against my gut for me, always want everything completely "free" in the kettle, but maybe it's a necessity at our level. I've just always depended on a tight trub cone from WP'ing, and so far, always gotten one.

Edit: Didn't see it till now. What Sleepy said.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I'm probably just being stubborn, but having slept on this, if commercial breweries can do it, why can't we? Meaning, an effective whirlpool protocol and clean wort going out (I had it, by being slow with the outlet valve, always), and a good, vigorous and hot backflushing with an alkaline (caustic?) followed by acid wash, for the PC?

Using a hop spider goes against my gut for me, always want everything completely "free" in the kettle, but maybe it's a necessity at our level. I've just always depended on a tight trub cone from WP'ing, and so far, always gotten one.

Edit: Didn't see it till now. What Sleepy said.

Commercial breweries do a lot of what they do by pure necessity. Just because pros do it doesn't mean homebrewers should to. 10 gallon batches I prefer using an immersion chiller.

Anyone complaining about the number of steps an IC takes should never use a plate chiller/heat exchanger.

I too prefer free floating hops. And with a good whirlpool and side draining (either dip tube or barrier wall- I've never seen that on a homebrew kettle, and our big one is a dip tube for our side drain) and picking up from the bottom), loose pellet hops are fine.

If you backflush with hot PBW and soak it hot after use, rinse near boiling back the normal direction, and then heat pasteurize before use (run until 185+, and then seal it in there for a while), you're probably getting the job done. Periodically running sanitizer through isn't a bad idea either, although I'd use something low foaming, not star-san.

 

[TheMadKing]

Commercial breweries do a lot of what they do by pure necessity. Just because pros do it doesn't mean homebrewers should to. 10 gallon batches I prefer using an immersion chiller.

Anyone complaining about the number of steps an IC takes should never use a plate chiller/heat exchanger.

I too prefer free floating hops. And with a good whirlpool and side draining (either dip tube or barrier wall- I've never seen that on a homebrew kettle, and our big one is a dip tube for our side drain) and picking up from the bottom), loose pellet hops are fine.

If you backflush with hot PBW and soak it hot after use, rinse near boiling back the normal direction, and then heat pasteurize before use (run until 185+, and then seal it in there for a while), you're probably getting the job done. Periodically running sanitizer through isn't a bad idea either, although I'd use something low foaming, not star-san.

Having used a plate chiller on an industrial scale (not for beer though), I had enough experience with one to know the potential headaches beforehand, but I had to give it a shot since it was cheap.

I think if I have it hard plumbed into a brew stand that will solve most of my issues. It's not hard to put in a butterfly valve backflush loop for in-situ cleaning. So I'll see, if I can get the amount of work down to 2 camlock hookups and a valve change it might be worth it. Otherwise I think a CFC will be the way to go. I really don't mind using a large hop sock either, that's easy enough to do.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Qhrumpf, agree we shouldn't emulate commercial practice "just because." Probably said it wrong. What I meant to say, is that it's not certain you're going to end up with a clogged PC if you homebrew with one. More a question, since I've never used a PC. I just know whirlpooling has always worked well for me, I'm careful in monitoring outflow and always ended up with extremely clear bitter wort heading to the fermentor. So I'm having a hard time wondering why this would be any different - though I know it is, for many people. Just trying to figure out why.

Add to that the backflush process, yes, I also couldn't figure out why that wouldn't resolve it. I've backflushed at the brewery, backflushed the system at a 50 meter, olympic pool. This is my experience with backflushing, and in both instances, very effective.

 

[TheMadKing]

I'm happy with my IC personally, but I'd go to a CFC if not.

After brewing a second batch with the plate chiller, I agree that an IC is less overall work for homebrewing and I intend to switch back.

No cleaning other than dunking in water, no sanitizing other than sticking in 5 minutes from the end of the boil. No back flushing, half the hoses, similar chill time if I spring for a Jaded Hydra and go back to my old whirlpool arm.

Only real downside is the inelegant act of sticking a giant hunk of metal in your beer rather than pumping it through a chiller... But really it is less work than CFC's or PC's because of the easier cleanup and fewer connections

 

[Gadjobrinus]

I honestly just don't remember, it's been so long. My old brewlength was 10 gallons or so into the fermentor. I do recall it seemed to take a long time to squeeze the final few degrees out with an IC. I intend, too, to take up to 15 gallons down to 58-60 for pitching. I am kind of like an ex-husband in an amicable breakup with the IC, nothing against it but looking strongly to a PC for its efficiency, unless I can be dissuaded.

Do you guys believe the IC can get it down to 58-60 in a reasonable time? Do you believe the 100' version is perhaps necessary. I'm not averse (in fact probably will) to setting up a pre-chill ice bath and recirc.

 

[schematix]

My Jaded Hydra cools nearly as fast as my Therminator.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Schematix, what's your brewlength?

 

[applescrap]

I honestly just don't remember, it's been so long. My old brewlength was 10 gallons or so into the fermentor. I do recall it seemed to take a long time to squeeze the final few degrees out with an IC. I intend, too, to take up to 15 gallons down to 58-60 for pitching. I am kind of like an ex-husband in an amicable breakup with the IC, nothing against it but looking strongly to a PC for its efficiency, unless I can be dissuaded.

Do you guys believe the IC can get it down to 58-60 in a reasonable time? Do you believe the 100' version is perhaps necessary. I'm not averse (in fact probably will) to setting up a pre-chill ice bath and recirc.

As your ground water gets colder an ic should take it to 60 in 5 to 7 minutes. My 40 dollar one does. You have to agitate it. If you dont want to agitate it yet want fast cooling an ic probably isn't the right tool, maybe the jaded ic will do that but still I think they recommend agitation. For me I dont like the idea of sending beer where I cant see it. But to each their own.

 

[schematix]

Schematix, what's your brewlength?

whats a 'brewlength'?

 

[TheMadKing]

whats a 'brewlength'?

Amount of time your average brew day takes I think? I've never seen it as 1 word though

 

[Qhrumphf]

Prechillers are useless. Pump ground water with an IC or recirculate with a PC/HE/CFC until you're <100F and then switch the water flow to ice water from ground water.

Or a glycol CLT. That's even better.

 

[TheMadKing]

Prechillers are useless. Pump ground water with an IC or recirculate with a PC/HE/CFC until you're <100F and then switch the water flow to ice water from ground water.

Or a glycol CLT. That's even better.

Exactly what I do.

I keep about 30 frozen water bottles in the bottom of my freezer, and dump them into a cooler with about 3 gallons of water, and circulate that through my chiller with a pond pump. It drops the wort temp FAST from 100F down to pitch temp even with my DIY IC. Then I just re-freeze them all and use them again next time. No wasting ice, or buying it every batch.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

whats a 'brewlength'?

Sorry, not trying to be cool, how big are your batches?

Applescrap, yeah, that's an issue I forgot to mention. I whirlpool, and after that, I want no disturbance in the BK. I used to sanitize the IC by dropping it after WP had settled, and it had maybe 1/2 hour at near boiling. But it never moved, and I was pretty tight about that.