Off Flavors after bottling?

[tko17]

Howdy folks.

I've been absorbing knowledge from these forums for a little over a year, but since each of my questions had already been answered several times, I have never had the need to post.

But I can't find a situation that mirrors my current problem.

I've recently moved from extract into partial mash and small batch all grain brews (using the BIAB technique I found here). My first two all grain batches (a pumpkin ale and a saison) each developed a weird off flavor in between bottling and drinking.

I wasn't worried as much after the pumpkin ale because I made some other mistakes with the mash temperature and flavor additions, but before bottling the saison tasted delightful and now it tastes like nothing.

And that's the issue. I call this an off flavor strictly based on the definition of an off flavor being a flavor that I don't want. It isn't terrible, it isn't super strong. It just tastes like a flavorless beer. A little bready? A little yeasty? The saison had a great flavor and aroma from the wyeast 3724 with just a hint of mint and pepper before bottling, and now those are all gone and the beer just tastes flavorless.

I'm thinking that this is a sanitation issue of some sort. I learned last night that I should be disassembling the spigot for my bottling bucket. But I think this particular infection might be coming from my racking hose. Upon inspection I noticed a little bit of crud on the inside of the last 8 inches of the hose. Not a massive amount, but some spots here and there. I think this probably came from a few batches ago when I left the cane and hose in the primary bucket with the yeast trub for a little too long after I racked into my secondary.

So I'm already planning on replacing the hose, but I really want to make sure that I'm not missing something else. I have a couple of (i think ) pretty special batches going right now and I would be truly pissed if they got infected.

So my questions are these: 1) Has anyone had experience with this sort of non-offensive off flavor that offends by covering up the rest of the flavor in the beer? and 2) I notices that some of my bottles of the saison have a pattern of something yeast colored growing on the inside of the bottles. Haven't noticed this before, but it certainly seems to indicate an infection. Is that reasonable? 3) could the crud inside the racking hose really be the source of infection even though it soaks in a strong starsan solution for at least a half hour before I use it? and lastly 4) should I have any hope for these beers? Or should I dump them and try again?

Thanks for the help!!

 

[Revvy]

Unless I missed it you haven't told us how long the beer's been in the bottles. How long has it been bottle conditioning? Time is sometimes all that's needed for clearing up off flavors, as stories in this thread have illustrated.

 

[tko17]

oops.

It sat in the primary for 7 weeks and in the bottles for 15 days. I'm planning on giving it a little more time, but I got worried when the flavor which had me so excited seemed to completely vanish.

 

[Revvy]

oops.

...in the bottles for 15 days.

Herin lies the issue..... Your beer is green, nothing else, really.

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Stouts and porters have taken me between 6 and 8 weeks to carb up..I have a 1.090 Belgian strong that took three months to carb up.

Pumpkin beers have taking me about 6-8 weeks.

And just because a beer is carbed doesn't mean it still doesn't taste like a$$ and need more time for the off flavors to condition out.

Everything you need to know about carbing and conditioning, can be found here Of Patience and Bottle Conditioning. With emphasis on the word, "patience."

 

[billl]

Generally, infections have a very pronounced flavor and they get worse with time. Obviously though, any gunky lines need to be fixed regardless.

Lots of people perceive oxidation as a general muting of all flavors, so that would be the first think I looked at.

 

[unionrdr]

True,but he didn't describe it as being like wet carboard,which oxidation usually is. It may well just be green yet. Idk how long saison's take to condition in bottles,but it obviously isn't there yet...

 

[tko17]

The 3 weeks at 70 degrees, that we recommend is the minimum time it takes for average gravity beers to carbonate and condition. Higher grav beers take longer.

Shoot.

And I was trying so hard to not have my first actual question on this forum NOT be one that was answered by "be patient."

But such is life. I guess from here I'll just relax, then I'll stop worrying, and then (in about 8 hours or so) I'll have a homebrew.

Thanks guys!

 

[billl]

Looks like I was typing while you were providing more info. At 2 weeks - yep, you gotta be patient. Partly carbed beer isn't usually tasty.

At 7 weeks in the primary, I'd think any "green" tastes would be gone already. If you were "checking" on your first batch over those 7 weeks though, I'd still think the oxidation risk is quite possible. Everyone tastes things differently - and not everyone chews enough cardboard to describe it that way.

 

[Revvy]

At 7 weeks in the primary, I'd think any "green" tastes would be gone already. If you were "checking" on your first batch over those 7 weeks though, I'd still think the oxidation risk is quite possible. Everyone tastes things differently - and not everyone chews enough cardboard to describe it that way.

No matter how long you condition something pre-bottling, green beer is still green beer if it's only been 15 days in the bottle. It's almost like a blank slate at bottling time. Remember, carbonation is still nothing more than another fermentation, and as with any fermentation some byproducts are produced, that the yeast still need to clean up after carbonation.