Off flavor - whats the cause?

[KepowOb]

Back to home brewing after 6 years. First batched turned out fine. Went with something easy and safe and I'm enjoying it, so a win there.

Batch #2 less so . Was supposed to be a simple APA. It has a bit of a nasty off flavor though.

Reading as much on off-flavours as I can, it the closest I can link it to is wet cardboard, but I even tasted it when I sampled when I was kegging, so I'm not sure how it would have been oxidized already? Plus the color doesn't look darker than I'd expect (image attached).

If there something else that has that type of flavor? Maybe I'm getting it wrong in how I'm describing it? I'm not great at describing flavors in general. My wife said it was like an ashtray, if that helps, but I really don't get that at all. It seems to be more an aftertaste. I don't have it when it hits the tongue, or swish it around, but once you swallow it comes through strong.

Was in the fermenter for 10 days. Took gravity reading after 7 and 9 days, the kegged it the next day. It's 2 days later now (forced carbed at a higher PSI, then dropped it to serve because I'm impatient).

As for process, I brew BIAB. Sorry for the mix between fahrenheit and metric units here, lol. Full-volume mash 28.5L @153F to start. 60min, 147 by the end, including a few stirs during the mash.

No sparge, but gave the bad a pretty thoughrough squeeze.

Recipe:
2.75kg 2-row
1.3kg Vienna
1kg Munich I
225g caramel 60
21 IBU Cascade @ 60min (25g at 7.2aa)
17 IBU Cascade @ 30min (25g)
50g Cascade 20min hopstand @176F

WYeast 1056 - pitched at 64F

Entire fermentation @ 64 with temp control.

OG: 1.057
FG: 1.012

Any thoughts, either from possible causes or even from the recipe, would be greatly appreciated! I'm hoping it fades over time, but have a feeling it won't... But I'd like to avoid it going forward obviously!

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Back to home brewing after 6 years. First batched turned out fine. Went with something easy and safe and I'm enjoying it, so a win there.

Batch #2 less so . Was supposed to be a simple APA. It has a bit of a nasty off flavor though.

Reading as much on off-flavours as I can, it the closest I can link it to is wet cardboard, but I even tasted it when I sampled when I was kegging, so I'm not sure how it would have been oxidized already? Plus the color doesn't look darker than I'd expect (image attached).

If there something else that has that type of flavor? Maybe I'm getting it wrong in how I'm describing it? I'm not great at describing flavors in general. My wife said it was like an ashtray, if that helps, but I really don't get that at all. It seems to be more an aftertaste. I don't have it when it hits the tongue, or swish it around, but once you swallow it comes through strong.

Was in the fermenter for 10 days. Took gravity reading after 7 and 9 days, the kegged it the next day. It's 2 days later now (forced carbed at a higher PSI, then dropped it to serve because I'm impatient).

As for process, I brew BIAB. Sorry for the mix between fahrenheit and metric units here, lol. Full-volume mash 28.5L @153F to start. 60min, 147 by the end, including a few stirs during the mash.

No sparge, but gave the bad a pretty thoughrough squeeze.

Recipe:
2.75kg 2-row
1.3kg Vienna
1kg Munich I
225g caramel 60
21 IBU Cascade @ 60min (25g at 7.2aa)
17 IBU Cascade @ 30min (25g)
50g Cascade 20min hopstand @176F

WYeast 1056 - pitched at 64F

Entire fermentation @ 64 with temp control.

OG: 1.057
FG: 1.012

Any thoughts, either from possible causes or even from the recipe, would be greatly appreciated! I'm hoping it fades over time, but have a feeling it won't... But I'd like to avoid it going forward obviously!

Curious, what were the actual gravity readings at 7 and 9 days? Was it stable and you were sure it was truly done? with those stats it seems you are at ~79% attenuation so thats a little higher than the expected values on WY1056. Never used that yeast myself. Other things: how are you doing temp control? how are you measuring it and how confident are you with your setup in that the temp may have not gotten too high? Nevertheless, while I personally haven't gotten the dreaded dark/obviously visual signs of oxidation myself yet, from what Ive read the visual color is the last stage of oxidation. Aside from your flavor, is there any aroma? Also wondering on your kegging/transfer process. Is it closed or open? Definitely want to please the wife so that she still supports the hobby and "ashtray" is never a good descriptor of success lol. The only other thing I can think of is what is your fermenter itself? bucket? carboy? bitching SS conical? just wondering that if it is oxidation, perhaps you had some sort of "leak" along the way where O2 did its damage. Just some thoughts here.

 

[IslandLizard]

Wet cardboard hints to oxidation. Read up on how to prevent it.
Ashtray hints to scorching. Can happen when direct heating the mash, without sufficient stirring and scraping the bottom perpetually.

 

[KepowOb]

Curious, what were the actual gravity readings at 7 and 9 days? Was it stable and you were sure it was truly done? with those stats it seems you are at ~79% attenuation so thats a little higher than the expected values on WY1056. Never used that yeast myself. Other things: how are you doing temp control? how are you measuring it and how confident are you with your setup in that the temp may have not gotten too high? Nevertheless, while I personally haven't gotten the dreaded dark/obviously visual signs of oxidation myself yet, from what Ive read the visual color is the last stage of oxidation. Aside from your flavor, is there any aroma? Also wondering on your kegging/transfer process. Is it closed or open? Definitely want to please the wife so that she still supports the hobby and "ashtray" is never a good descriptor of success lol. The only other thing I can think of is what is your fermenter itself? bucket? carboy? bitching SS conical? just wondering that if it is oxidation, perhaps you had some sort of "leak" along the way where O2 did its damage. Just some thoughts here.

Temp control is in a converted freezer with temp probe insulated and stuck to the side of the fermenter. I know you can be more accurate, but I'm not concerned that temps skyrocketed or anything.

The aroma isn't as much as I'd have expected from the hops, but it's there. Maybe another sign of oxidation there too, with the hops taking a hit...

Fermenter is a 6gal fermonster. Only time it was opened was take take gravity readings. It was stable between both readings, and I was surprised by how low it was as well. And I only removed the plug and grabbed a reading, I didn't open the entire top.

Never had an issue with oxidizing it at that stage, and to that amount, just by taking a reading in the past. I'll look for possible leaks, but I don't see how. The lid screws on pretty tight, it's not like a bucket that can accidentally not be closed all the way on one side

Might just chalk this up as a "triple check everything next time and hope it's a one off" and if it happens again, then really dive in. I'll also pay close attention to how it ages.

 

[KepowOb]

Wet cardboard hints to oxidation. Read up on how to prevent it.
Ashtray hints to scorching. Can happen when direct heating the mash, without sufficient stirring and scraping the bottom perpetually.

Done a lot of reading on preventing oxidation, and I'm pretty careful here, which is why I'm at such a loss. As I said, it had the flavor coming out of the fermenter when I kegged, so even if I had a terrible transfer (it was fine), it seemed to have happened previous to that... Which I am having trouble figuring out. I'll double check my equipment and fermenter and seals and everything before the next brew though.

Heat was off during the entire mash, so it wouldn't be that. I also think she's off on that one, lol.

I'll check my equipment, and pay extra attention next time around and see what happens I guess.