Obnoxious Football Trash Talk Thread

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jpakstis said:
But I think this is part of the NFLPA's issue. Why is this case the one where the NFL is making an issue out of it? Players similarly situated are not being punished the same. Brady is ostensibly being punished for two alleged activities: being "generally aware" of a scheme to deflate footballs (a game-day issue) and for not cooperating with the investigation. In all other similar deflation/game-day investigations, the league either didn't do anything (the Vikings/Carolina game from last year) or fined them according to the game manual (the Chargers). If the the issue is non-cooperation, Favre didn't turn over his cell phone and so was docked $50K. This of course assumes that Brady actually did it. So maybe they are taking extraordinary steps because its unprecedented. But then again that's why the NFLPA has an issue with it.

Another problem is that the NFL is applying team conduct policies (the deflation regulations) on a player without notice. The only argument I can see the NFL making is that this is the way these types of cases will be decided from now on, i.e. any sort of game-day violation will from here on out will subject the violator to a 4 game suspension. But if that's the case, Brady did not know that would have been the consequence because it wasn't the "law of the land" when he allegedly did it.
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Your bringing up comparison cases we've already gone over. Farve and Brady were two different situations.. Farve didn't mess with the actual game of football. He did something outside the ream of football. Whereas Brady and the Patriots messed with the actual game of football.. on the field. The punishment is not for not cooperating with his cell phone. The punishment is for being involved with cheating the game. Not cooperating is simply being used against him in that point. If he is so innocent, why have a problem with proving it? Delete the nudies of his super hot wife and show the damn messages that show you weren't conspiring.

I don't really understand your saying without notice. Without notice of what? Of how a football is supposed to be? Again, you can't possibly be trying to argue that Tom Brady of all people doesn't know every single in and out of a football and how it is supposed to/has to be. And surely you aren't trying to say that he didn't know there could be punishments for breaking rules and cheating. So him not knowing how bad the consequences shouldn't matter at all. Lesser consequences don't make a decision to cheat more OK.

In regards to the same action not being taken before? There is a first time for every punishment for every offense.. I'm sure you know that as a lawyer. Or just from life itself. Sometimes when an example is being made... or someone finally says "this will not happen any more, we're done letting it off easily" The punishment is seen as new and extreme. But little slaps on the wrist don't seem to cut it. Particularly when it comes to insanely rich folks.
 
CLREuPdWcAA3SB2.png
 
Roadliner said:
Your bringing up comparison cases we've already gone over. Farve and Brady were two different situations.. Farve didn't mess with the actual game of football. He did something outside the ream of football. Whereas Brady and the Patriots messed with the actual game of football.. on the field. The punishment is not for not cooperating with his cell phone. The punishment is for being involved with cheating the game.
Click to expand...

That's why I also brought up the Vikings/Carolina game and the Chargers situation. They were also cheating the game. The Chargers even tried to destroy the evidence.

Roadliner said:
Not cooperating is simply being used against him in that point. If he is so innocent, why have a problem with proving it? Delete the nudies of his super hot wife and show the damn messages that show you weren't conspiring.
Click to expand...

Wells told him he didn't need the phone. Wells confirmed this in his May phone press conference. Brady also offered to gather up as much data as he could. Additionally the NFL was in possession of any communications between Brady and the his alleged co-conspirators. The NFL is shifting the goalposts here.

Roadliner said:
I don't really understand your saying without notice. Without notice of what?
Click to expand...

Of what the possible consequences would be of his alleged non-cooperation. The only mention of the PSI regulations is in the NFL game manual, which is distributed to teams not players. As well the punishments for altering the balls in the manual are directed solely toward the head coach and club personnel. Brady is neither the head coach nor club personnel. As well, Brady is not subject to the Competitive Integrity Policy

Roadliner said:
In regards to the same action not being taken before? There is a first time for every punishment for every offense.. I'm sure you know that as a lawyer.
Click to expand...

Working in the criminal field, you cannot be punished for an action that has not been determined by either the legislature or the courts to be a crime. I understand that the CBA cannot contemplate every potential action and consequence, but there is precedent for both "integrity of game" issues and for non-cooperation issues. And none of them have remotely come close to Brady's 4 game suspension.

This "scandal" allows you to believe whatever you want to believe. Maybe the NFL prevails, maybe Brady prevails. It really makes no personal difference to me. But in terms of the PR "battle" I find it fascinating that Goodell gets skewered after the Freeh report came out and has not a single shred of credibility. Now with similarly "shaky" evidence, he is a paragon of virtue.
 
jpakstis said:
That's why I also brought up the Vikings/Carolina game and the Chargers situation. They were also cheating the game. The Chargers even tried to destroy the evidence.



Wells told him he didn't need the phone. Wells confirmed this in his May phone press conference. Brady also offered to gather up as much data as he could. Additionally the NFL was in possession of any communications between Brady and the his alleged co-conspirators. The NFL is shifting the goalposts here.



Of what the possible consequences would be of his alleged non-cooperation. The only mention of the PSI regulations is in the NFL game manual, which is distributed to teams not players. As well the punishments for altering the balls in the manual are directed solely toward the head coach and club personnel. Brady is neither the head coach nor club personnel. As well, Brady is not subject to the Competitive Integrity Policy



Working in the criminal field, you cannot be punished for an action that has not been determined by either the legislature or the courts to be a crime. I understand that the CBA cannot contemplate every potential action and consequence, but there is precedent for both "integrity of game" issues and for non-cooperation issues. And none of them have remotely come close to Brady's 4 game suspension.

This "scandal" allows you to believe whatever you want to believe. Maybe the NFL prevails, maybe Brady prevails. It really makes no personal difference to me. But in terms of the PR "battle" I find it fascinating that Goodell gets skewered after the Freeh report came out and has not a single shred of credibility. Now with similarly "shaky" evidence, he is a paragon of virtue.
Click to expand...

The consequences aren't for his "alleged" non-cooperation. They are for cheating. The argument that Brady doesn't know how his footballs are prepared again, is absurd. You can't believe that one of the greatest QBs in the sport doesn't know this because it isn't in the player's manual. That is a weak argument. There is no way in hell someone in his position, as good as he is, doesn't control those balls. He cheated.. he got caught. The sad part, and the part that should piss off fans more than the punishment when the Patriots cheat.. is that they don't need to. they are an exceptional team that could win honestly.
 
jpakstis said:
That's why I also brought up the Vikings/Carolina game and the Chargers situation. They were also cheating the game. The Chargers even tried to destroy the evidence.
Click to expand...

Weirdly it sounds like the Chargers weren't even cheating (it wasn't against the rules to put sticky stuff on the ball then, though that was quickly changed), the really were fined entirely for failure to cooperate with the refs' investigation.

jpakstis said:
This "scandal" allows you to believe whatever you want to believe. Maybe the NFL prevails, maybe Brady prevails. It really makes no personal difference to me. But in terms of the PR "battle" I find it fascinating that Goodell gets skewered after the Freeh report came out and has not a single shred of credibility. Now with similarly "shaky" evidence, he is a paragon of virtue.
Click to expand...

Probably a stupid question but which Freeh report are you referring to (Google points to a Bountygate report the Saints hired him to do but evidently never released, but I didn't see anything else relevant)? Regardless, I'm not sure how Goodell's honesty/virtue are at issue here -- is it really "blame the ref" time for Pats nation? I thought you all were feeling pretty bullish about the CBA arguments prevailing in court given how "unfair" and "unprecedented" the four game suspension is?
 
fosaisu said:
Pot + Street Racing ≠ Cheating
Click to expand...

No, no, no, no.

Pot + Street Racing ≠ Serial Murderer

Pretty sure Richardson hasn't gone on a nationwide tour denying his guilt all while getting his team to echo his desperate pleas and being the biggest whiniest puss bag possible. If Richardson is suspended further, the team will deal with it and if he keeps this **** up he'll get cut. His replacement is already on the roster.
 
fosaisu said:
Probably a stupid question but which Freeh report are you referring to (Google points to a Bountygate report the Saints hired him to do but evidently never released, but I didn't see anything else relevant)? Regardless, I'm not sure how Goodell's honesty/virtue are at issue here -- is it really "blame the ref" time for Pats nation? I thought you all were feeling pretty bullish about the CBA arguments prevailing in court given how "unfair" and "unprecedented" the four game suspension is?
Click to expand...


The Freeh report was whether Goodell had ever seen the Rice elevator video. It found that he had not although it was widely ridiculed. The question it was commissioned to answer was so narrowly tailored that it failed to answer whether anyone else at the NFL had seen it and/or whether Goodell had an opportunity to see it.

I'm not confident because I can never be confident unless and until Brady is exonerated. Even the most slam dunk cases have an element of risk of losing.

I think I've made my points as well as I could. If you want to believe that Brady is a cheater there is no outcome that will dissuade you. Even if he is totally exonerated I know people will always associate him with cheating. It's the way it goes.
 
fosaisu said:
Probably a stupid question but which Freeh report are you referring to (Google points to a Bountygate report the Saints hired him to do but evidently never released, but I didn't see anything else relevant)? Regardless, I'm not sure how Goodell's honesty/virtue are at issue here -- is it really "blame the ref" time for Pats nation? I thought you all were feeling pretty bullish about the CBA arguments prevailing in court given how "unfair" and "unprecedented" the four game suspension is?
Click to expand...


The Freeh report was whether Goodell had ever seen the Rice elevator video. It found that he had not although it was widely ridiculed. The question it was commissioned to answer was so narrowly tailored that it failed to answer whether anyone else at the NFL had seen it and/or whether Goodell had an opportunity to see it.

I'm not confident because I can never be confident unless and until Brady is exonerated. Even the most slam dunk cases have a risk of losing.

I think I've made my points as well as I could. If you want to believe that Brady is a cheater there is no outcome that will dissuade you. Even if he is totally exonerated I know people will always associate him with cheating. It's the way it goes.
 
Most hated cheaters in sports history:

5) Barry Bonds
4) Tonya Harding
3) Lance Armstrong
2) the 1919 Black Sox
1) Tom Brady
 
Roadliner said:
The consequences aren't for his "alleged" non-cooperation. They are for cheating. The argument that Brady doesn't know how his footballs are prepared again, is absurd. You can't believe that one of the greatest QBs in the sport doesn't know this because it isn't in the player's manual. That is a weak argument. There is no way in hell someone in his position, as good as he is, doesn't control those balls. He cheated.. he got caught. The sad part, and the part that should piss off fans more than the punishment when the Patriots cheat.. is that they don't need to. they are an exceptional team that could win honestly.
Click to expand...


You are making an assumption; in all my arguments I've never put forth any assumptions. I'm basing mine on explicit facts or statements. and I am talking about the alleged cheating. A player had never ever been suspended for even one game for cheating. I think that the largest penalty a player has ever received (if any has been actually so punished) might have amounted to $10-20K. Right now I can't research if any player has been punished at all for on-field cheating. I would think it would fall in line with stickum or cleats being too long.

And assuming that Brady did cheat, the only act the Wells report "proved" that he did was being "generally aware" of "inappropriate activities." Everything else is an assumption by the NFL. And once again we know how valuable assumptions are.

If you're going to take unprecedented steps to stop chicanery in the game I would think you'd want a stronger example. In law the saying goes "extreme action results in extreme decisions." If you want to believe that 4 games is fine for being "generally aware" of "inappropriate activities" I guess your definition of extreme differs from mine.

It won't matter anyway because either Brady plays the whole year or Garappolo leads them to 4-0. I think it's cute the Jets, Bills, and Fish think they have a chance.
 
jpakstis said:
You are making an assumption; in all my arguments I've never put forth any assumptions. I'm basing mine on explicit facts or statements. and I am talking about the alleged cheating. A player had never ever been suspended for even one game for cheating. I think that the largest penalty a player has ever received (if any has been actually so punished) might have amounted to $10-20K. Right now I can't research if any player has been punished at all for on-field cheating. I would think it would fall in line with stickum or cleats being too long.

And assuming that Brady did cheat, the only act the Wells report "proved" that he did was being "generally aware" of "inappropriate activities." Everything else is an assumption by the NFL. And once again we know how valuable assumptions are.

If you're going to take unprecedented steps to stop chicanery in the game I would think you'd want a stronger example. In law the saying goes "extreme action results in extreme decisions." If you want to believe that 4 games is fine for being "generally aware" of "inappropriate activities" I guess your definition of extreme differs from mine.

It won't matter anyway because either Brady plays the whole year or Garappolo leads them to 4-0. I think it's cute the Jets, Bills, and Fish think they have a chance.
Click to expand...


You were born out of your moms ass
 

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