Cavpilot2000
Well-Known Member
I've used a variety in NEIPAs, from WLP 001 to WLP 007 to Imperial Juice to 1318.How about the yeast you are using?
I like 007 and Juice best.
I've used a variety in NEIPAs, from WLP 001 to WLP 007 to Imperial Juice to 1318.How about the yeast you are using?
I've used a variety in NEIPAs, from WLP 001 to WLP 007 to Imperial Juice to 1318.
I like 007 and Juice best.
Imperial Juice and 1318 are the same strain.
They are though. A38 is Imperials version of LAIII. Just as A04 is Imperials Conan strain which is WL Burlington strain.Nope.
They are though. A38 is Imperials version of LAIII. Just as A04 is Imperials Conan strain which is WL Burlington strain.
That's actually not true. It's a common myth.
What’s not true? Love to hear this myth debunked.
1318 and Juice act exactly the same during fermentation and produce that signature soft, kinda sweet beer.
Not saying they aren't similar, I've never seen anything that said they were the same strain. I've looked at multiple charts and they are never listed as being the same strain. Below is the most comprehensive chart I've ever seen and it's not listed there.
https://www.saltcitybrewsupply.com/media/YeastComparison3.pdf
Did you think the esters were stronger than the hop notes? I may try to up my pitch next time
What was that grain bill? Was it 82% Pilsner? Looks perfect
@nick sekerak
I have an experiment to share with you all. There have been several experiments about oats vs wheat in neipa - usually flaked variety, But I have yet to stumble across malted oats vs wheat malt. I decided to do my own. I brewed two seperate small batch neipas:
80% TF Golden Promise
18% Crisp Malted Oats or Weyerman White Wheat Malt
2% Honey Malt
(Normally I decrease oats and use chit but I did not want to skew the foam/body comparison)
1oz gal WP of Citra
1oz gal dryhop of Citra on Day 3
Since these were small batches I could not do my usual cold side LODO but I figured it would be okay since each would have roughly the equivalent exposure to oxygen. After 24hrs dryhop (still some SG left), I transferred each to a uKeg to spund w/ a CO2 cylinder for backup. In day 14, no discernible difference, day 21 - oat had better mouthfeel & foam (shaving cream vs big bubbles for wheat) and malted oats slightly darker.
Here is day 28 - the difference in oxidation characteristics is shocking. Malted oats is much darker, the hops aroma has taken a huge hit BUT the mouthfeel & foam are significantly more "desirable". Malted wheat batch has okay foam that lingers for a minute and thin body, but the hop aroma & flavors are popping like crazy vs stale/oxidized for the malted oats brew.
View attachment 646560
I was originally planning to take pics every two weeks up till 8, but I feel like this is enough data for me to stop the experiment.
I have still have some malted oats to work through, but I will not be using in the future. I plan to switch to flaked barley for the body/head component after that and test again vs wheat malt.
Tangent - Another thing I am trying to quantify is the impact of polyphenols in hops on mouthfeel. The brew I made a while back that was solo dryhop of 1.5oz per gal of galaxy (known for high polyphenols) had the best mouthfeel of any beer I have ever made. It had malted oats but it was a split batch and the other had el dorado, citra, mosaic dryhop - the mouthfeel/body wasnt even close to the galaxy batch.
Cheers!
Slightly off topic but I think this is the right crowd to potentially help.
Had a 6 month old overbuilt starter of 1318 that I decided to build up via a blonde ale (which I planned on DHing). This is the oldest yeast I've tried using so I'm in uncharted territory for me. I usually always use healthy yeast.
I made a 1L starter with it and there was about 24-36 hour lag time but eventually it picked up and flocked out. I didn't take a FG.
I then decanted it and pitched it into a 1.050 blonde a day later with 90s pure O2 and nutrient.
The main batch had a decent lag time too but I attributed that to pitching at 63. I let it free rise to 172 from there.
Fast forward a week later and it has stalled at 1.020 when it should be around 1.014 or lower (144/148/154/162 mash).
I'm adding some Energizer and rousing the fermenter and it seems to be doing something however my bigger concern is the beer smells and tastes like I used Belgian yeast.
Has anybody gotten Belgian-type esters from 1318 when under-pitched? Think it will clean up if I can restart fermentation?
1318 and Juice act exactly the same during fermentation and produce that signature soft, kinda sweet beer.
i asked WL if Burlington Ale is Conan. They said it is very similar then gave the usual comments about mutation and not knowing exact sourcing
So the difference between 001/1056/US05 is that Yeast strain is more prone to genetic mutations than almost any brewing strain. It’s a diploid yeast strain
WHat kind of OG are you starting with?What would cause fermentation to halt at the last few points? I made a few NE IPAs and used 1318 in May, and slurry for the next few-they all finished 1.020 at best, maybe 1.018 on one. I just made an entirely different recipe (following post 5803), this time using Omega OYL-052 and this one finished at 1.022.
I ferment around 68* for 10 days at least, I've dry hopped 3 days in, 6 days in-didn't seem to matter. I've had others finish out with the same yeast in the same conditions that dropped a little lower-the only thing that changed this year is that I am using a SS BrewBucket-process is all remotely the same. I can't figure out why they're stalling at the end now.
WHat kind of OG are you starting with?
What kind of mash regimen are you using?
Was that with hydrometer or refractometer?I actually did get a new one for this last batch after my last few (again for the reason being I wanted to pinpoint where the issue could be lol). I have a refractometer as well with ATC. I made sure both were calibrated to 0 before this most recent batch. Both gave me 1.074 as my OG with temperature correction (for the hydro reading)
I took a measurement last Thursday and it was at 1.022, took another one on Sunday and it was still at 1.022. I presume it's not dropping much further, if any. Today would be day 12 of fermentation.
I actually did get a new one for this last batch after my last few (again for the reason being I wanted to pinpoint where the issue could be lol). I have a refractometer as well with ATC. I made sure both were calibrated to 0 before this most recent batch. Both gave me 1.074 as my OG with temperature correction (for the hydro reading)
I took a measurement last Thursday and it was at 1.022, took another one on Sunday and it was still at 1.022. I presume it's not dropping much further, if any. Today would be day 12 of fermentation.
Yes, I only use the refractometer for SG/OG readings, I am aware it doesn't give an accurate reading with alcohol in the solution. I never use it beyond brew day. The hydro gave me 1.074 before fermentation, and the FG 1.022 readings have come only from the hydrometer (@68*)Was that with hydrometer or refractometer?
You are using a refractometer calculator of FG, right? You know it doesn't give a correct reading when there is alcohol in solution, yes?
I don't mean to insult your intelligence, but some people don't realize that when they first start using a refractometer.
That could be it. I always give the wort a good long shake before pitching, but perhaps that is my bottleneck. I did not know that about this yeast-may need to look into another method of getting O2 into the beer prior to pitching. Like you, my starters always seem plenty healthy, and the last few I have done have been 2L starters so according to the 4 calculators I use, it should be an adequate amount of yeast cells available when I'm pitching.What about O2?Juice is noted as needing extra O2. I have never had a problem with my Juice starters fermenting out, but the Imperial page (at least it used to) noted to double O2 requirements for complete fermentation. I do not dose beyond what is gained from transfer to FV however
1.060-1.064 for a few. Those were all 1318 being used. Most recent was 1.074 with the Omega yeast. I wanted to switch to see if using slurry was my issue, but apparently getting similar results.
Mashing 148-152 for 60 minutes. I generally lose a couple degrees during, but still hit close to my OG and efficiency doesn't take too much of a hit. I generally get between 65-75%.
Obviously more than mash temp plays into attenuation but you should get lower with that mash temp. I did 3 batches of 1318 awhile back, all were around 1.058-1.060 OG.
Gen1 - mashed at 153. FG - 1.014
Gen2(harvested) - mashed at 156. FG - 1.020
Gen2(harvested) - mashed at 149. FG - 1.010
What would cause fermentation to halt at the last few points? I made a few NE IPAs and used 1318 in May, and slurry for the next few-they all finished 1.020 at best, maybe 1.018 on one. I just made an entirely different recipe (following post 5803), this time using Omega OYL-052 and this one finished at 1.022.
I ferment around 68* for 10 days at least, I've dry hopped 3 days in, 6 days in-didn't seem to matter. I've had others finish out with the same yeast in the same conditions that dropped a little lower-the only thing that changed this year is that I am using a SS BrewBucket-process is all remotely the same. I can't figure out why they're stalling at the end now.
@paarman I do not know if anyone mentioned this yet, but have you replaced the batteries in your Thermometer lately and/or are you sure you thermometer is calibrated correctly. I had an issue two beers in a row that they were reading lower than the actual temp. Was trying to target 152 and kept finishing at 1.018ish finally checked on the third batch and 152 on my digital was actually 4 degrees higher. Just another curveball thrown into the mix
Did you use any sugar in the 1.074 batch?
I too have struggled with 1318 the few times I’ve used it in the last year or so. Actually have something going with the Omega strain right now and I’m interested to see how it ends up. I checked it yesterday and was thinking it would be lower as I overpitched it and started at 68 then bumped to 72.
I oxygenate with a .5 micron stone and pure o2 at .5 for 3 minutes. DO meter buts that around 12 ppm O2.
Yeast nutrient always
Doing all the things necessary to ensure quick and complete fermentation. Unless my yeast viability in severely challenged to begin with not sure what the issue is.
Thermapen and GF thermostat are all calibrated.
I use a dial thermometer, but I thought about upgrading to an instant-read one to save myself some headache. I'll keep this in mind, thanks!
Glad to hear someone else having similar issues. I didn't use any sugar in this batch, just these ingredients, except I somehow forgot the honey malt .. It was only 6oz of it however. 15lbs total without.
2 Row, Golden Promise, Flaked Oats, Flaked Barley, White Wheat Malt, Honey Malt
I will look into making sure my wort gets more oxygen moving forward-not something I have ever really focused on before, perhaps overlooked/forgot about it.
Thanks for the feedback!
How much would you use in a 5 gallon batch with about 15.4lbs grain... 1 cup towards the end of the boil?Yeah you definitely need to use some
Sugar at that gravity to get fermentation down lower.
I think the suggestion is to replace some of your base malt with sugar since the sugar is fully fermentable. So for the same og you are basically guaranteed to get a slightly lower fg by swapping out some base malt for 8-16 oz of sugarHow much would you use in a 5 gallon batch with about 15.4lbs grain... 1 cup towards the end of the boil?
I use a dial thermometer, but I thought about upgrading to an instant-read one to save myself some headache. I'll keep this in mind, thanks!
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