New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[exit8]

Get that Riwaka while you can, less than 100 pounder bags available!

https://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/product_p/hopsnzriwaka1-2019crop.htm

This going back in stock made me pull the trigger on it, Vic and Nelson. The Riwaka IPA I had from HFS was one of my favorite beers all year.

 

[emr25]

I ordered a bunch of new to me hops to try out in NE IPAs over the next 6 to 9 months. Grabbed some Taiheke, supposedly NZ grown Cascade that amps up the aroma/flavor. Not much available, I’m interested to see how it fares!

1 lb Nelson Sauvin
1 lb Riwaka
1 lb Wai-iti
8 oz Taiheke
8 oz BRU-1
8 oz Idaho Gem
8 oz Strata

https://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/product_p/hopsnztaiheke2-2019crop.htm

 

[Dgallo]

Get that Riwaka while you can, less than 100 pounder bags available!

https://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/product_p/hopsnzriwaka1-2019crop.htm

Good looks

 

[Dgallo]

I ordered a bunch of new to me hops to try out in NE IPAs over the next 6 to 9 months. Grabbed some Taiheke, supposedly NZ grown Cascade that amps up the aroma/flavor. Not much available, I’m interested to see how it fares!

1 lb Nelson Sauvin
1 lb Riwaka
1 lb Wai-iti
8 oz Taiheke
8 oz BRU-1
8 oz Idaho Gem
8 oz Strata

https://www.yakimavalleyhops.com/product_p/hopsnztaiheke2-2019crop.htm

I just had single hop done with Bru-1 from a brewery in Schenectady and did not care for it. Seemed way to one densional as herbal earth. That being said the beer had some technical flaws that could have taken away from the hop

 

[emr25]

I just had single hop done with Bru-1 from a brewery in Schenectady and did not care for it. Seemed way to one densional as herbal earth. That being said the beer had some technical flaws that could have taken away from the hop

I’ll probably be pairing BRU-1 and Idaho Gem in a dual-hopped NE IPA using my standard grain bill for trying new hop combinations.

11 lbs Barke Pilsner
3 lbs 8 oz Golden Promise
2 lbs White Wheat
10 oz Acidulated
4 oz Gambrinus Honey

 

[flintoid]

How would you guys describe Idaho Gem in a dry hop and in a whirlpool?

 

[couchsending]

How would you guys describe Idaho Gem in a dry hop and in a whirlpool?

I’ve used it in two beers. One was a single hop 4.5% hoppy “blonde” ale. It definitely has this bright red fruit character to it. Hard to describe exactly. However IMHO the earthiness of it was a little strong, especially as the beer aged. Not sure I’d use it again, maybe.

 

[isomerization]

Anyone used these types of hop before? Are we using these to generate lower IBUs but style get the expected hop character? If so, when are they being added to the boil?

https://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/825977.htm

And on a different note, looking at doing a Southern hemi NE IPA with Vic Secret, Galaxy, Nelson and Riwaka. Any suggestions on how to partition the hops, specifically hot/cold and ratios. Thanks!

 

[jjw5015]

Anyone used these types of hop before? Are we using these to generate lower IBUs but style get the expected hop character? If so, when are they being added to the boil?

https://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/825977.htm

And on a different note, looking at doing a Southern hemi NE IPA with Vic Secret, Galaxy, Nelson and Riwaka. Any suggestions on how to partition the hops, specifically hot/cold and ratios. Thanks!

Doesn't look like you'd get much hop character from it. Remove the glands to remove bitterness, you're also losing the flavor/aroma.

 

[leesmith]

Anyone used these types of hop before? Are we using these to generate lower IBUs but style get the expected hop character? If so, when are they being added to the boil?

https://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/825977.htm

And on a different note, looking at doing a Southern hemi NE IPA with Vic Secret, Galaxy, Nelson and Riwaka. Any suggestions on how to partition the hops, specifically hot/cold and ratios. Thanks!

The ones you have never used...do a single hop beer.

The ones you have do 2/3 one and 1/3 the other at flameout (whatever the kids are doing these days) and then dry hop the same ratio.

Galaxy with Nelson will be my next combo to try.

 

[isomerization]

The ones you have never used...do a single hop beer.

The ones you have do 2/3 one and 1/3 the other at flameout (whatever the kids are doing these days) and then dry hop the same ratio.

Galaxy with Nelson will be my next combo to try.

While I could experiment over the course of 4-5 brews with these hops, I’m looking for a shortcut here!

 

[couchsending]

Anyone used these types of hop before? Are we using these to generate lower IBUs but style get the expected hop character? If so, when are they being added to the boil?

https://www.ritebrew.com/product-p/825977.htm

And on a different note, looking at doing a Southern hemi NE IPA with Vic Secret, Galaxy, Nelson and Riwaka. Any suggestions on how to partition the hops, specifically hot/cold and ratios. Thanks!

Oh sweet. I’ve been waiting for them to actually release those American Noble hops. They’ve been available to pro brewers since Cryo but they never have actually packaged and sold them to homebrewers . I think they gave some away at NHC a couple years ago but that’s it.

I’d be interested to make a lager with them but also interested in using them during fermentation on hoppy beers. A lot of the Aromatic and biotransformative compounds are found in the bracht material. I’m usually opposed to adding hops during very active fermentation due to the mercaptan formation you can get when hops are in contact with lots of yeast for extended periods of time. However with almost all the oil content removed and especially the alpha acid you aren’t likely to get those weird mercaptan sulphury/rotting veggie notes.

As far as those Aussie/NZ hops go I’ve never combined all of them. Done plenty of Vic Secret/Galaxy, Galaxy/Nelson, and a few Nelson/Riwaka but never combined them all, not sure I would honestly. They’re all very powerful hops.

 

[leesmith]

While I could experiment over the course of 4-5 brews with these hops, I’m looking for a shortcut here!

Your experimenting anyways...

Anything someone recommends is going to be new to you (unless they suggest a combo you have already done).....hence an experiment of sorts...your taking a chance on someone’s recommendation.

My guess would be any of those hops are worthy of a single hop brew and would not make a bad beer.

But a sure bet is a single hop of Galaxy which also goes well with Citra among others.

Or a single hop of Nelson which is excellent with Mosaic.

I have not brewed with Vic or Riwaka...but the first thing I would do is brew a single hop with them. No sense in using them blindly in combination with another hop until you know what they bring (especially as a result of YOUR process).

 

[isomerization]

As far as those Aussie/NZ hops go I’ve never combined all of them. Done plenty of Vic Secret/Galaxy, Galaxy/Nelson, and a few Nelson/Riwaka but never combined them all, not sure I would honestly. They’re all very powerful hops.

Point taken, perhaps I should refocus my question to hot verse cold side usage. Any preferences there? If not, I will probably try a 1:1 ratio with each hop either cold or hot.

@leesmith I get what you’re saying, my primary concern is that with single hop beers, you use them throughout (duh!), so it’s hard for me to see how they’d work in concert with other hops. Some times 2+2 does not equal 4

 

[Dgallo]

While I could experiment over the course of 4-5 brews with these hops, I’m looking for a shortcut here!

I agree with couch and lee here. Do Single hop beers with the ones that are completely new to you.

You could even incorporate them into one of your proven recipes where you get constant results. By replacing the main hop of that recipe with the new one. That was you can still get some understanding of the hop

 

[isomerization]

I agree with couch and lee here. Do Single hop beers with the ones that are completely new to you.

You could even incorporate them into one of your proven recipes where you get constant results. By replacing the main hop of that recipe with the new one. That was you can still get some understanding of the hop

I only brew ~15 times a year, with maybe every 3 beers an IPA, so that’s putting me at next fall before I start blending them!

See my previous comment regarding translating single hop usage to blends at different times/temps/etc.

How are you using tasting notes from a single hop beer to guide hop blending?

 

[Dgallo]

How are you using tasting notes from a single hop beer to guide hop blending?

For me, I feel that making single hop beers and seeing how the hop presents itself is the easy way to determine how well they will pair with other hops. Take a hop most of us are pretty familiar with, mosaic. Tasting it in a single hop you will pick up that it’s fruity, berry/mango with some light citrus but still has a pretty earthy/dankness character to it. So you know you can pull out more of it’s dank characteristics if you pair it with Columbus, more of its fruity/berry notes if paired with Belma, more mango and citrus with citra. Obviously more hops will pair well with Mosiac, such as it’s parent hops simcoe and nugget. It also pairs great with Galaxy.

Now for ratio of the usage I think about the oil content of the hops and perceived strength from the single hop beers I did with them. Based on that and what desired flavor/aroma I’m looking for in the final product I will come up with what I believe will work. Most of the time it’s pretty ball park from my expectation and then I try to dial it in during future batches.

 

[couchsending]

These are my recommendations based on what I’ve done:

Galaxy/Nelson:

The Nelson we get doesn’t tend to be that amazing and can be borderline terrible. That being said when using it hotside some of the worst characteristics can ferment out. I’d favor Nelson in the WP (I like it at 20
Or 10 as well) and Galaxy in the dry hop. I’ve found the Galaxy to be much more consistently good, at least the stuff from YVH. 3:1 Nelson Galaxy hotside, flip it dry hop.

Galaxy/Vic Secret:

Depends on what you want. I find Vic Secret to be strong Pineapple and pine and some people say eucalyptus as well. Definitely don’t boil it, it can be harsh. You could split evenly or just do a bit of VS to add some pine notes to the crazy fruit of Galaxy.

Again all of these hops on their own are pretty rad. I would try Riwaka on its own if I was you or blend in a little Galaxy in the DH. It’s really unique and crazy potent for how low oil/alpha it is.

I would blend some American hops with Riwaka before any of the Aussie hops. Amarillo, Centennial, maybe even Mosaic.

Hope that helps.

 

[leesmith]

Point taken, perhaps I should refocus my question to hot verse cold side usage. Any preferences there? If not, I will probably try a 1:1 ratio with each hop either cold or hot.

@leesmith I get what you’re saying, my primary concern is that with single hop beers, you use them throughout (duh!), so it’s hard for me to see how they’d work in concert with other hops. Some times 2+2 does not equal 4

Typically...I want one to support the other. For instance Mosaic has a rounded flavor profile compared to Nelson....which is dynamic. Nelson seems to have a tartness/dryness to it that Mosaic does not. This tart (white wine/gooseberry) seems to compliment the broad fruitiness of Mosaic well and they both have a earthy quality to them.....Mosaic's earthiness being more herbal whereas pepper would describe Nelson's earthiness more. Overall, Nelson is powerful...and why I wouldn't pair MORE Nelson than Mosaic. A little bit of Nelson takes Mosaic a long way. If I was going to use a lot of Nelson....well...then I'd just use Nelson.

By doing single hop beers some of this pairing becomes intuitive.

All that being said...I get it too....I don't brew much myself. 15 to 20 times per year at most....half farmhouse and half hoppy and maybe one or two other styles to mix it up. It really is disappointing to commit to something, spend a lot of time and effort and then the result isn't what I was hoping for.

 

[isomerization]

I feel like we’re moving in the right direction here!

What I’d love to see is a the following type of information for all hops, using Mosaic as an example:

From BSG “Strong impressions of citrus oil, balsam pine, blueberry, peach and tropical fruit. Notable mango character, but also shades of lime and mandarin orange.”

Which aroma/flavor profile is accentuated by boil, whirlpool or dry hop additions? Does blueberry come out more when boiled or dry hopped?

 

[Dgallo]

I feel like we’re moving in the right direction here!

What I’d love to see is a the following type of information for all hops, using Mosaic as an example:

From BSG “Strong impressions of citrus oil, balsam pine, blueberry, peach and tropical fruit. Notable mango character, but also shades of lime and mandarin orange.”

Which aroma/flavor profile is accentuated by boil, whirlpool or dry hop additions? Does blueberry come out more when boiled or dry hopped?

Now I get exactly what you’re asking. In my experience strong blueberry comes out in specific batches. I’ve had good success couxing out some blue berry notes out by using a small amount of cryo in whirlpool like an oz and about 2/3 oz in dryhop. That being said it’s not consistent for me. I recently did a single hop double with mosaic and it started out quite dank/B.O. but after about 2 weeks it was solid blueberry. That leads me to believe it’s more grow lot specific

 

[leesmith]

Which aroma/flavor profile is accentuated by boil, whirlpool or dry hop additions? Does blueberry come out more when boiled or dry hopped?

This is where I lack knowledge.

I lean towards keeping all my additions at flameout. I’ve given up on any extended whirlpooling at lower temps....don’t feel like it adds much. Flameout and cooling right away do it for me. The beer benefits from a quick 212-200 degree soak of the hops before chilling.

There are many variables such as ingredient quality which could effect perception of a given trait of a particular hop. Even crop year could effect that trait or harvest time. Things like this cause me to limit my process.

 

[isomerization]

Now I get exactly what you’re asking. In my experience strong blueberry comes out in specific batches. I’ve had good success couxing out some blue berry notes out by using a small amount of cryo in whirlpool like an oz and about 2/3 oz in dryhop. That being said it’s not consistent for me. I recently did a single hop double with mosaic and it started out quite dank/B.O. but after about 2 weeks it was solid blueberry. That leads me to believe it’s more grow lot specific

So it may be impossible to really nail down usage specific outcomes. Mosaic seems like one of the “easiest” to do this with (maybe because of its diverse profile?) and yet there are still variable outcomes.

 

[couchsending]

Mosaic is al over the map. The blueberry note is very lot specific I think.

Got a buddy that does selection for a large craft brewery. He said the first four lots of Mosaic YCH gave him to rub were terrible. One was super onion/garlic, one was incredibly woody and said it didn’t resemble Mosaic at all. Had to ask them to bring out more...

I don’t think there’s any way you can say for certain what process delivers what flavor/aroma. Maybe if you’re a large brewery and have one lot to brew with all the time. As a homebrewer, no way.

 

[couchsending]

Funny I’ve used oats for maybe the last four batches and three of those beers have cleared quite a bit in the keg. It was about 5% oats in each. Haven’t used oats in a hoppy beer in maybe a year. I don’t recall any highly hopped beer with just 2 row and carafoam ever clearing.

That experiment is over with.

 

[beervoid]

Funny I’ve used oats for maybe the last four batches and three of those beers have cleared quite a bit in the keg. It was about 5% oats in each. Haven’t used oats in a hoppy beer in maybe a year. I don’t recall any highly hopped beer with just 2 row and carafoam ever clearing.

That experiment is over with.

I recall reading research on haze stability and wheat. It was mentioned there I believe that below 10% or above 20% it can actually make beer more clear. Perhaps this is the same with oats?
Scott Janish also wrote about the study in his new book.

Which type of oats did you use?
What was the ph post fermentation?

 

[leesmith]

Funny I’ve used oats for maybe the last four batches and three of those beers have cleared quite a bit in the keg. It was about 5% oats in each. Haven’t used oats in a hoppy beer in maybe a year. I don’t recall any highly hopped beer with just 2 row and carafoam ever clearing.

That experiment is over with.

I had mentioned you in another thread about this style in regards to haze, dry hop timing, and flavor and aroma stability. But maybe the oats this person is using is causing more of his issue than dry hop timing.

New England Style IPA issues
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/New-England-Style-IPA-issues.671182/

 

[JohnConnor]

Funny I’ve used oats for maybe the last four batches and three of those beers have cleared quite a bit in the keg. It was about 5% oats in each. Haven’t used oats in a hoppy beer in maybe a year. I don’t recall any highly hopped beer with just 2 row and carafoam ever clearing.

That experiment is over with.

Weird, I just did one with 7ish % oats (I like oats because the beer looks brighter for some reason) and it's probably the haziest beer I'm made in awhile. It's been in the keg for 2 months (I've been traveling a lot) and it shows no signs of clearing.

 

[BeerFst]

We’re talking flaked or malted here right? Just checking it’s not Golden naked oats, though they are malted, are a like a crystal Malt, and on their own I doubt would add much protein

 

[couchsending]

Flaked

 

[nick sekerak]

Weird, I just did one with 7ish % oats (I like oats because the beer looks brighter for some reason) and it's probably the haziest beer I'm made in awhile. It's been in the keg for 2 months (I've been traveling a lot) and it shows no signs of clearing.

I have been using only flaked oats and wheat about 10% of each i all my batch except the last one where I tried malted oats & wheat. And have not had any haze loss with either. I do say I think I like using malted because it is giving my brew a smoother mouthfeel and is less astringent quicker.

 

[Dgallo]

Completely changing it up but has anyone had anything from Equilibrium lately. They may be winning right now

 

[braindead]

Luckily had some at a tap takeover here in the Uk and was blown away.
Had some amazing American beers at IndyMan Beer Con here in the UK a few weeks ago.
Arclight blew me away, Cascade were on point and had a great chat with big Mike.
Wasn't too impressed by Other half and Finback, had them last year and loved them.

Still never had Treehouse yet : (

Anyone interested in UK trades

Cant believe you guys get 4 x Equilibrium, Trillium etc for $20

We pay £8 for 1 juicy from Verdant, Cloudwater

 

[couchsending]

Transferred a hoppy beer I brewed about 5 days ago into a keg full of 2019 leaf hops from Hops Direct. Citra, Amarillo, and a touch of Centennial. About 6 ounces.

I used fermentation to hopefully purge the keg of all O2.

Beer was I think about .001 from Terminal. Relying on a bit of hop creep to hopefully carbonate the beer as well, we’ll see.

Used a very flocculent yeast so hoping to transfer minimal amounts of yeast into the dry hop keg. Harvested right before transfer without soft crashing and got a ton of yeast out of it.

Leaf was bagged with some stainless weights. Dip tube screen as well.

Interested to see if it works. I’ll cold crash and transfer to a serving keg when all is said and done.

 

[leesmith]

Transferred a hoppy beer I brewed about 5 days ago into a keg full of 2019 leaf hops from Hops Direct. Citra, Amarillo, and a touch of Centennial. About 6 ounces.

I used fermentation to hopefully purge the keg of all O2.

Beer was I think about .001 from Terminal. Relying on a bit of hop creep to hopefully carbonate the beer as well, we’ll see.

Used a very flocculent yeast so hoping to transfer minimal amounts of yeast into the dry hop keg. Harvested right before transfer without soft crashing and got a ton of yeast out of it.

Leaf was bagged with some stainless weights. Dip tube screen as well.

Interested to see if it works. I’ll cold crash and transfer to a serving keg when all is said and done.

Why leaf?

 

[couchsending]

Why leaf?

Cause Hops Direct had a bunch of 2019 available and it’s not that expensive. Both the Citra and Amarillo smelled awesome. Been using leaf more these days. Using a hopback stuffed with leaf for Pilsners and IPA/Pales for the last 7 or 8 beers I think. Enjoying the results.

Never dry hopped with leaf and probably wouldn’t except with this process.

 

[braindead]

What are you guys finding the best methods for carbonation.
Set it and forget it?

 

[schematix]

What are you guys finding the best methods for carbonation.
Set it and forget it?

Spunding, if you like your flavor and aroma to hang around. If you want it brown and meh by the time it’s carbonated then yah, set it and forget it will achieve that end.

 

[Dgallo]

Spunding, if you like your flavor and aroma to hang around. If you want it brown and meh by the time it’s carbonated then yah, set it and forget it will achieve that end.

This beer was closed transfered into a purged keg and literally force carbed by rocking back and forth for 4 minutes at 30 psi, than set to 10 psi.

Day 1:

Day 56:

Not a brown mess. Cleared a little and aroma/flavor down slightly but that’s just settling from time.

 

[couchsending]

Spunding, if you like your flavor and aroma to hang around. If you want it brown and meh by the time it’s carbonated then yah, set it and forget it will achieve that end.

That’s a rather bold statement.

I do believe that the mouthfeel from natural carbonation is better but there is a fine line between keeping O2 at bay by spunding and having too much yeast in suspension that will drag hop oils down when it floccs.

If you are really meticulous about minimizing O2 pickup you can make a more Aromatic beer that will last just as long as a spunded one.

I’ve never once had a beer darken in color. If that happens you’re doing something seriously wrong. I force carb 80% of my hoppy beers and the aroma tends to get better by week 2-3 in the keg and not fall off really from there.

Set it and forget it is the best way if you’re gonna force carb IMHO. I have a few separate chest freezers that I’ll carbonate in at lower temps as the Co2 goes into solution faster without having to crank the psi.