New England IPA "Northeast" style IPA

[beervoid]

View attachment 631900

80% Rahr 2-row
20% White wheat malt

Single hop Nelson beer.

Stayed hazy to the last drop.
Clear before dry hopping.

Which maltster and how long till the last drop?
Dry hopping schedule?

 

[leesmith]

Which maltster and how long till the last drop?
Dry hopping schedule?

Briess White Wheat.

2.5 gallon batches
3 gallons into fermenter

30 ibus of Warrior at 60 min

3 oz Nelson at flame out

Fermented and then cold crashed for 48hrs at 50 degrees.

3 oz Nelson for two days at 62

Crashed to serving temp for 2-3 days

Transferred to serving keg, chilled and carbonated for 1.5 weeks

Then drank on it for 3-4 weeks.

 

[Hammy71]

Galaxy is back in stock at Yakima Valley. 155 pounders available right now

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[stickyfinger]

I finally have some information from my first cold crash beers. I dropped both to 60F for 2 days and then dry hopped with a headspace purge (in kegs with 4.5G total volume) and then let rest two days and just racked to serving kegs tonight after 2 days of 38F. One had 5 oz galaxy and 1 oz ctz; one had 5 oz citra cryo and 1 oz ctz. the galaxy version is super awesome. the citra version is too floral and geraniol-like for me but is ok. i either overdid the dryhop with the citra one or it just has too much geraniol for a 60F dry hop. I do like that the cold crash beer is drinkable instantaneously. It doesn't have much yeast at all in it, just hoppiness. However, I really like the flavor of dry hops in contact with active yeast. I think next time I'll try adding some prefermentation or biotransformation dry hops AND a smaller amount of soft crash dry hops.... If I could get the flavor of the biotransformation beer without the yeast I'd be set.

 

[Dgallo]

I finally have some information from my first cold crash beers. I dropped both to 60F for 2 days and then dry hopped with a headspace purge (in kegs with 4.5G total volume) and then let rest two days and just racked to serving kegs tonight after 2 days of 38F. One had 5 oz galaxy and 1 oz ctz; one had 5 oz citra cryo and 1 oz ctz. the galaxy version is super awesome. the citra version is too floral and geraniol-like for me but is ok. i either overdid the dryhop with the citra one or it just has too much geraniol for a 60F dry hop. I do like that the cold crash beer is drinkable instantaneously. It doesn't have much yeast at all in it, just hoppiness. However, I really like the flavor of dry hops in contact with active yeast. I think next time I'll try adding some prefermentation or biotransformation dry hops AND a smaller amount of soft crash dry hops.... If I could get the flavor of the biotransformation beer without the yeast I'd be set.

I think the citra one will get much better in time. 5oz cryo is like 10 oz pellets. Keep me posted on how that beer conditions

 

[couchsending]

Yeah that’s a lot of cryo! Cryo has a vastly different flavor/aroma than regular T-90.

 

[Oldskewl]

Definitely. The Aussie hops are notorious for it, some American varieties. It’s not necessarily directly related to oil content although they do tend to coincide. Have you used Galaxy before?

I used galaxy one other time for the OP recipe and it turned out great. I purchased it through Northern Brewer at the time. The last batch was purchased from Morebeer. I’m wondering if it was just a bad sourcing of Galaxy. I plan to order some hops from Yakima Valley soon.

 

[beervoid]

I finally have some information from my first cold crash beers. I dropped both to 60F for 2 days and then dry hopped with a headspace purge (in kegs with 4.5G total volume) and then let rest two days and just racked to serving kegs tonight after 2 days of 38F. One had 5 oz galaxy and 1 oz ctz; one had 5 oz citra cryo and 1 oz ctz. the galaxy version is super awesome. the citra version is too floral and geraniol-like for me but is ok. i either overdid the dryhop with the citra one or it just has too much geraniol for a 60F dry hop. I do like that the cold crash beer is drinkable instantaneously. It doesn't have much yeast at all in it, just hoppiness. However, I really like the flavor of dry hops in contact with active yeast. I think next time I'll try adding some prefermentation or biotransformation dry hops AND a smaller amount of soft crash dry hops.... If I could get the flavor of the biotransformation beer without the yeast I'd be set.

My guess is that the bio transform flavor will come anyway with time. No need to dry hop during active. Just give it some time to mellow out, especially galaxy needs time. Please keep us posted how it develops!

As for cryo, I have the same experience as other. Its very raw one dimensional hop flavor that is best combined with pellets to shine.

 

[beervoid]

I had a lot of luck with malted oats, just hated the lack of head retention with it.

This is the first time I’ve used malted wheat at 15 % or more of a NEIPA

Repost I think you missed it.

Did u use any other protein rich grains?
It's funny cause Janish's book and the research there in says you get the most stable haze with malted wheat at 15%

Which brand and type of malted wheat did you use?
How much % oats do u usually add?

Also how did you dry hop?

 

[Dgallo]

Repost I think you missed it.

Did u use any other protein rich grains?
It's funny cause Janish's book and the research there in says you get the most stable haze with malted wheat at 15%

Which brand and type of malted wheat did you use?
How much % oats do u usually add?

Also how did you dry hop?

Repost I think you missed it.

Did u use any other protein rich grains?
It's funny cause Janish's book and the research there in says you get the most stable haze with malted wheat at 15%

Which brand and type of malted wheat did you use?
How much % oats do u usually add?

Also how did you dry hop?

Only 2 row, small amount of carapils and briess red wheat. Soft crash 36 hours at 48ish to drop yeast then allowed the beer to rise back to room temp. dryhoped 4 days before kegging and again with 36 hours to kegging. 2.5 ounces in each with 1 oz of both dryhops being cryo

I make an Other Half Oat Cream Clone and malted oats are 35% of the bill. Zero head retention past 3 minutes

 

[leesmith]

briess red wheat. Soft crash 36 hours at 48ish to drop yeast then allowed the beer to rise back to room temp. dryhoped 4 days before kegging and again with 36 hours to kegging. 2.5 ounces in each with 1 oz of both dryhops being cryo

I make an Other Half Oat Cream Clone and malted oats are 35% of the bill. Zero head retention past 3 minutes

When you soft crash, do you get the beer off the yeast afterwards? And before dry hopping?

 

[Dgallo]

When you soft crash, do you get the beer off the yeast afterwards? And before dry hopping?

Don’t have the capabilities to do so with out a rack.

But that’s certainly not what’s causing the floc. I used to dryhop with yeast present and never experienced a clearing like this before. I’m still wondering if moving the keg to beverage center to can them had something to do with it. It resuspended anything that had previously flocced out in the keg and I’m wondering if it attracted with other proteins/polyphenols and pulled them back down when it settled again

 

[beervoid]

Only 2 row, small amount of carapils and briess red wheat. Soft crash 36 hours at 48ish to drop yeast then allowed the beer to rise back to room temp. dryhoped 4 days before kegging and again with 36 hours to kegging. 2.5 ounces in each with 1 oz of both dryhops being cryo

so 1oz cryo plus 1.5oz pallet x2 ?
that's 3oz total pellets and 2oz cryo... I think maybe there where too little pellets and hops in total to give stable haze.. paired with using malted wheat.. to me it seems it's all about hitting the right ratio of the right proteins from hops/grains..

I had a beer with 15% flaked wheat. 3oz cryo and 2oz pellets.. dropped clear within 1 week.. Dry hopped at the end of fermentation. Wyeast1318

Do you experience that the malted oats make the beer take longer to get rid of hopburn?

 

[Dgallo]

Do you experience that the malted oats make the beer take longer to get rid of hopburn?

Yes. It took til the 2nd week for it not to be noticeable and then another week or so to truly be enjoyed

 

[beervoid]

Don’t have the capabilities to do so with out a rack.

But that’s certainly not what’s causing the floc. I used to dryhop with yeast present and never experienced a clearing like this before. I’m still wondering if moving the keg to beverage center to can them had something to do with it. It resuspended anything that had previously flocced out in the keg and I’m wondering if it attracted with other proteins/polyphenols and pulled them back down when it settled again

How long did u cold crash the beer before final transfer to the keg to can from? Perhaps more yeast got in but then again I can't imagine this being the case, some people ship there haze beers (white beers) upside down so that they are hazy when they arrive at the client... So if anything it should give extra haze..

 

[beervoid]

Yes. It took til the 2nd week for it not to be noticeable and then another week or so to truly be enjoyed

Just a theory but I see lots of NEIPA brewers putting Wheat and Oats in their beers.. Perhaps as oats % goes up they add wheat to balance out some proteins that stick too long?
In my experience using flaked oats it always took long for the beer to become drinkable. Never had a chance to try malted.

 

[Dgallo]

How long did u cold crash the beer before final transfer to the keg to can from? Perhaps more yeast got in but then again I can't imagine this being the case, some people ship there haze beers (white beers) upside down so that they are hazy when they arrive at the client... So if anything it should give extra haze..

No I get that, when everything is re suspended it’s just as hazy as it was in the beginning, I was getting at once that resuspended material starts to floc out again, let’s say 2 weeks at 39/40*f, that it pulls more proteins with it that previously didn’t floc out. Other than that, I’m dumb founded because this is the only time it’s ever happened to this extent.

 

[leesmith]

Don’t have the capabilities to do so with out a rack.

But that’s certainly not what’s causing the floc. I used to dryhop with yeast present and never experienced a clearing like this before. I’m still wondering if moving the keg to beverage center to can them had something to do with it. It resuspended anything that had previously flocced out in the keg and I’m wondering if it attracted with other proteins/polyphenols and pulled them back down when it settled again

You are resuspending yeast back into solution by warming the beer back up during dry hopping along with increasing the risk for hop creep.

I could see the movement stirring up the sediment (yeast and proteins) expediting the clearing of the beer once stationary again.

 

[Dgallo]

You are resuspending yeast back into solution by warming the beer back up during dry hopping along with increasing the risk for hop creep.

I’ll find the article again and post it but they claimed that very minimal amounts of yeast will resuspended by temperature alone, it takes rousing. It’s claimed only extremely active yeast would resuspended by temp which is very small percentage after the cold crash.

 

[beervoid]

I’ll find the article again and post it but they claimed that very minimal amounts of yeast will resuspended by temperature alone, it takes rousing. It’s claimed only extremely active yeast would resuspended by temp which is very small percentage after the cold crash.

Do you use finings. If so do you meassure them exactly at each batch?

 

[murphyslaw]

Just sharing this as it seems relevant

 

[Dgallo]

I could see the movement stirring up the sediment (yeast and proteins) expediting the clearing of the beer once stationary again.

That’s what Im guessing is the cause. Also since it probably went back in my kegerator with 2 gallons left, the original sediment from the entire 5 gallons went back into suspension, so if it is the culprit it would of had double the effect based on volume

 

[leesmith]

I’ll find the article again and post it but they claimed that very minimal amounts of yeast will resuspended by temperature alone, it takes rousing. It’s claimed only extremely active yeast would resuspended by temp which is very small percentage after the cold crash.

If you get a chance to find and post a link and don’t mind, I’d like to read that article. Or just an author, title, and/or website or book to reference from.

The act of dry hopping would rouse the yeast to some extent because of the pellets sinking and rising...which I used to witness when I fermented in clear vessels.

Just curious. I’ve been wondering if my 48 hr cold crashes are truly enough to drop all the yeast...or at least the amount needed to not be detrimental in any way; splitting hairs kind of ways.

It actually takes quite a few hours for the beer to drop to the set crash temp. So a 48 hr crash really isn’t at set temp for 48 hours.

 

[Dgallo]

If you get a chance to find and post a link and don’t mind, I’d like to read that article. Or just an author, title, and/or website or book to reference from.

The act of dry hopping would rouse the yeast to some extent because of the pellets sinking and rising...which I used to witness when I fermented in clear vessels.

Just curious. I’ve been wondering if my 48 hr cold crashes are truly enough to drop all the yeast...or at least the amount needed to not be detrimental in any way; splitting hairs kind of ways.

It actually takes quite a few hours for the beer to drop to the set crash temp. So a 48 hr crash really isn’t at set temp for 48 hours.

Been looking for it on and off all day. It was something I read in passing about dryhoping. Anyway, I just wrote to Imperial and asked if temperature alone will resuspend yeast or if it needs to be roused. If they get back to me, I will upload their response

 

[couchsending]

If you get a chance to find and post a link and don’t mind, I’d like to read that article. Or just an author, title, and/or website or book to reference from.

The act of dry hopping would rouse the yeast to some extent because of the pellets sinking and rising...which I used to witness when I fermented in clear vessels.

Just curious. I’ve been wondering if my 48 hr cold crashes are truly enough to drop all the yeast...or at least the amount needed to not be detrimental in any way; splitting hairs kind of ways.

It actually takes quite a few hours for the beer to drop to the set crash temp. So a 48 hr crash really isn’t at set temp for 48 hours.

48 hours will drop plenty of yeast, certainly not all but enough. Obviously depends on the strain you’re using. Even the pros that use Chico usually only give it 24 hours and that yeast doesn’t flocc that well at all.

 

[Dgallo]

@leesmith they answered

 

[TxBigHops]

Just sharing this as it seems relevant View attachment 632011

Looks yummy! This place is still on my bucket list. My daughter ran Boston this year, but unfortunately I wasn't able to get away from work and go with. She'll probably go back again in a couple of years and I'll catch Treehouse then.

 

[stickyfinger]

I carbonated my soft-crash-dry-hopped IPAs overnight last night. My main observation today in taking a sample is that both have incredible body and head retention, way more than i usually get. I am wondering if dry hopping at 60F after a cold crash is resulting in some enzymatic activity to release more simple sugars that then don't get eaten by the yeast since they are stunned by the cold or mostly dropped out? I get incredible body and head retention whenever I have some simple sugars in my beers (such as when adding cherry juice to kegs of stout and such or when beers under-attenuate a bit.) Unless they age really well, I still think I prefer an active fermentation dry hop for the hop flavor, but maybe my process is just screwed up for the soft-crash model. They are only going to get 1 week of age, as I need them for a party. The Citra version tastes so much like something I'd get from Equilibrium. They have a super strong floral/perfume character that I am not a fan of for the most part, compared with the juicier hop flavor I like in Alchemist beers or Treehouse.

I also just dry hopped a second IPA I made tonight that was soft-crashed, so that is a third data point. I put 4 oz mosaic and 4 oz galaxy pellets into close to 6G of soft-crashed IPA. The malt is 90% GW pale and 10% wheat malt. If this one also has a lot of floral/perfume character as opposed to the usual juicy character, but better mouthfeel, I think I might start adding some biotransformation dry hops along with a small dose of soft-crash dry hops to potentially up the foam and body.

 

[RCope]

sticky: Just to add to your data points, my soft crashed beer turned out excellent. I added 4 oz after 58 degree crash for 2 days, let it sit for 24 hours then crashed to 34 for another 2 days. Of course, it's hard to mess up a Citra/Mosaic dry hop. I did however add pre-ferm and full Krausen hops as well. Frankly, I thought (think) biotransformation hops are part of the process for this style. For fun, for this iteration, I added hops everyway I know . I got no floral/perfume and very little hop bite, even day 1 after force carb. Just juice, it was the first time I used A24, though. I kegged just 5 days ago...

 

[marchuk96]

sticky: Just to add to your data points, my soft crashed beer turned out excellent. I added 4 oz after 58 degree crash for 2 days, let it sit for 24 hours then crashed to 34 for another 2 days. Of course, it's hard to mess up a Citra/Mosaic dry hop. I did however add pre-ferm and full Krausen hops as well. Frankly, I thought (think) biotransformation hops are part of the process for this style. For fun, for this iteration, I added hops everyway I know . I got no floral/perfume and very little hop bite, even day 1 after force carb. Just juice, it was the first time I used A24, though. I kegged just 5 days ago...View attachment 632062 View attachment 632063

Looks good man...8 hop varieties huh...muddled?

 

[SRJHops]

Looks good man...8 hop varieties huh...muddled?

Interested in thoughts about muddling... I think more than 1 hop makes sense, of course, in that hops can compliment each other... But how many is too many? I tend to use three varieties, usually citra, mosaic, and something else, like galaxy or Idaho 7. But I'm designing my next recipe and was considering using 5: citra, mosaic, Idaho 7, and a small amount of galaxy and simcoe.

On a related note, is it better not to mix dry hops? Maybe go with one type of hop for each separate dry hop? Thinking of 3 dry hop additions with two during active and one 48 hours before bottling: citra for the first, mosaic for the second, and simcoe for the last.

 

[TBryerton]

I’ve never had a Treehouse beer lose it’s haze other than Bright which is to be expected.

To your point, can date 1/25. A few days short of 5 months in the can. Julius is still hazy.

 

[flintoid]

and by "hazy" I'd say "barely." That's cleared up quite a bit.

 

[kevink]

To your point, can date 1/25. A few days short of 5 months in the can. Julius is still hazy.

Do you have any more of them? The haze of the beers I drink that have dropped "clear" like yours can be brought back by shaking vigorously and put back in the fridge for a few hours or a few days. Doing that brings back the mouthfeel and most of the flavor.

 

[TBryerton]

and by "hazy" I'd say "barely." That's cleared up quite a bit.

Yeah....looks just like a bud light. Lol. It’s a little less hazy but it’s still plenty hazy.

@kevink I’ll try that later if I get a chance

 

[kevink]

@kevink I’ll try that later if I get a chance

Awesome! Hold the can upside down when you shake it. That baby is pretty old, so it may take two shakings a few hours apart since you can only shake them so much until they completely foam up inside the can.

 

[ttuato]

Following up on this post - finally got around to trying this ferm schedule.

First observation: Fermentation stalled (1.024) probably because of that first temperature drop. I was traveling so I did not notice until day 8. I roused the yeast with the swirl method - pressure started building after 12hrs so I assume fermentation has kicked up again.

I have only applied the first dryhop at this point, gonna wait a couple of days before adding the second dryhop.

I have read to Chapter 8 of Janish book so far - lots of great info and science explanation behind what we do (be warned - very scientific language used at times). I won't provide a bunch of spoilers but I do want to point out interesting process tweaks based on scientific tests regarding yeast / fermentation schedule for Ale yeast & dry hopping for NEIPA to increase esters & reduce unwanted non-fruity hop oils or astringency from polyphenols. (This is not overtly stated in book - I pieced this together.)

• Overpitch yeast - leads to increased esters (this was new info to me - not sure I will try this though)
  
• Pitch warm (3-5 degrees higher than top of your specific yeast temp range) and continue chilling to desired temp ---- leads to increased esters and possibly greater glycerol (max glycerol production in first 18hrs) (this was new info to me- definitely gonna do this since summer)
• Ferment on the warm side of the schedule - (temp that highest on scale for your yeast - usually 72-74) - increases fruity esters (no surprise here)
• Approximately 60hrs after pitch yeast, DROP the temp to lowest temp for your specific yeast (usually 60-64*) - leads to significant increase in esters. (this was new info to me - for sure gonna do this). Hold this low temp for approximately two days and add first small dryhop (no more than 3-4oz & make sure to do LODO process)
• This should have you around day 5-6. Allow the temp to freerise back to the high end of the ferm schedule for the yeast (~72-74) hold this for 5 days add another small dryhop if desired (no more than 2-3oz & make sure to do LODO process
• Day 10-11 - Crash it to around 58* hold for a day for the yeast to crash then add final dryhop (no more than 3-4oz & make sure to do LODO process). After 24hr crash completely - get the beer transferred off the final dryhop in under 48hrs
• In case you didn't notice the recommendation is small dryhop charges spread across 2-3 charges, including a biotrans dryhop - this reduces astringency from polyphenols & "green" hop oils and increases extraction efficiency of the hops - in turn this makes the beer drinkable sooner. (Not necessarily new info but I am gonna try the triple dryhop instead of my usual double to see if different).

There are few other pearls that I have gathered too. The above has me the most excited so far to try with NEIPAs and some process tweaks to improve my lager brewing that I learned. I strongly recommend everyone add this book to their brewing library.

 

[InspectorJon]

I asked this question over in another thread but thought I might get a better educated, or maybe just more biased, answer here.

Is it possible to make a beer that has the flavor and mouth feel of the hazy craze beers without the haze? Personally I like the hazy juicy style so I am not disparaging it, just curious. Can we get the flavors and feel without the haze or is it a side effect of what it takes to get there?

 

[stickyfinger]

I'd like to reinforce what ttuato said in his original post. These are all ideas that were derived from various studies and comments made in the book but this general "schedule" is not in any way endorsed by Janish. In fact, in the section on fermentation, he comments that reducing esters may be desirable to emphasize the hops more. ttuato stated that he has pieced this method together, so he was totally transparent, but I don't want anyone to think that this is a schedule that was laid out as a best practices by Janish, far from it. The most important thing I derived from the book is that many people use a soft crash to drop the yeast before dry hopping. There are many other details, but that was the most striking thing that came across to me.

Following up on this post - finally got around to trying this ferm schedule.

First observation: Fermentation stalled (1.024) probably because of that first temperature drop. I was traveling so I did not notice until day 8. I roused the yeast with the swirl method - pressure started building after 12hrs so I assume fermentation has kicked up again.

I have only applied the first dryhop at this point, gonna wait a couple of days before adding the second dryhop.

 

[Dgallo]

I asked this question over in another thread but thought I might get a better educated, or maybe just more biased, answer here.

Is it possible to make a beer that has the flavor and mouth feel of the hazy craze beers without the haze? Personally I like the hazy juicy style so I am not disparaging it, just curious. Can we get the flavors and feel without the haze or is it a side effect of what it takes to get there?

Exact same mouthfeel.. no the haze (protein/polyphenol attraction) plays a decent role in the mouthfeel. But you can get a good one Without it