New to 110v brewing : Grainfather or new Unibrau V3?

[ch19]

You can order the custom built baskets on aliexpress they start and like $35 shipped.

Hey Augiedoggy, do you have any links to the AliExpress baskets? Cheers!

 

[augiedoggy]

There's still the same issue with power in any of the available 5gal batch eBIAB systems - the Brau Supply V2 was the only one I'm aware of that offered a 2x1600W configuration.

I haven't check aliexpress to see what they're offering for that price, but for the stainless steel custom mash baskets I've seen people ordering from Arborfab and the like, they're typically starting around $200. I've seen too many reports of mashes getting stuck and resulting in scorching wort and/or burning out the element when recirculating with a bag and one of those bayou-type steamer baskets to have confidence in going that route.

To me, the robobrew and mash and boil have the same limitations/drawbacks of the Grainfather - they're all propriety parts with a built in pump and element, so you could be looking at a much longer and more expensive repair process if one of those parts break outside of warranty. That, plus they're again limited to 1600W and designed for a sparge. Not having the ability to do no-sparge for a 5gal batch up to around 1.065 OG is a deal breaker for me.

brewhardware.com sells a prebuilt dual 1600w element modified inkbird controller for about $100.
EDIT** I was mistaken see below.

 

[augiedoggy]

Hey Augiedoggy, do you have any links to the AliExpress baskets? Cheers!

There are a number of sellers who sell these and in the past they were under $40 with shipping. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hom...id=1caa973e-372e-4181-8f9f-00d69a5409b7&tpp=1

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hom...l?spm=2114.10010108.1000015.44.6f7727d9b34leR

 

[TexasWine]

brewhardware.com sells a prebuilt dual 1600w element modified inkbird controller for about $100.

Actually, for now he's just selling the modification with a second toggle switch to run a pump off the alarm outlet. At this time it will not run two elements.

 

[augiedoggy]

Actually, for now he's just selling the modification with a second toggle switch to run a pump off the alarm outlet. At this time it will not run two elements.

Good to know.. I thought he mentioned he swapping out the ssr with a dual one to run a second so incorrectly assumed it was also rated for the same 15 amps as the other outlet. But I also didnt think about the 30a outlet and power cord needed for the main power for that setup.
Even without actual temp control for the supplemental second element it will work fine since you would want one on 100% when boiling and thats the only time it think one would really want the second element.

 

[TexasWine]

Good to know.. I thought he mentioned he swapping out the ssr with a dual one to run a second so incorrectly assumed it was also rated for the same 15 amps as the other outlet.

No, you're correct in that he did mention swapping out the ssr with a dual one. I don't remember what thread though. It's just that he's not currently offering them on his website.

I'm assuming he did the switcheroo for his own use, or maybe a proof of concept for something he'll sell in the future. I've already hit him up about converting one for me

 

[Bobby_M]

Right, just messing around at the moment. It needed a second input supply cable of course and an ssr swap. My concern is the heat buildup. Needs a sink and that would demand wall mounting using standoffs to make room.

 

[augiedoggy]

Right, just messing around at the moment. It needed a second input supply cable of course and an ssr swap. My concern is the heat buildup. Needs a sink and that would demand wall mounting using standoffs to make room.

How difficult would it be to mount a heat sink externally? I imagine this would require cutting a hole in the box which would be somewhat labor intensive when doing many.

I think even just having a second switched 15 amp capable element plug that doesnt even really have to be pid controlled would be ideal for many hoping to brew 5-10 gallons with one of these... IMO at that point its easy just to run a separate cord from another circuit but many people want the "cool factor" of controlling it all from one box I think.

 

[portdawg66]

I am in the exact same position. My wife has given me the green light to proceed with whatever system I decide on. That decision has come down to either the Grainfather or the Unibrau V3. So here are the major differences that are driving my ability to decide...

Grainfather: Solid system with a ton of user reference available (YouTube, BLOGs, etc.). The "Connect" system is a significant benefit... allowing download of a myriad of recipes both via Grainfather's Recipe Site, as well as BrewSmith. Ability to mash with a high grain bill.

Unibrau V3: Modular design. High quality "brew system" hardware. Plate chiller. Ability to mash with a high grain bill.

So truth be told, both systems are great choices... any input on this process would be greatly appreciated.

On a side note; Unibrau V3 is about to start shipping any day now!

 

[enormous13]

I just don't see how Steven can justify the markup to the $1,200 price tag on that new Unibrau system. The controller is obviously inferior to the prior versions he's offered, and when compared to the GF Connect it's night and day with the whole Bluetooth/Web Connectivity aspect.

I see he upgraded the pump from those little brown pumps, but that's all of $50. The new basket is interesting with how it seats in the pot and then hangs from the ledge when draining, but a few stainless hooks achieve the same thing with any basket.

Considering what else is on the market, and their price points, I think Unibrau has priced themselves too high by about 25%. And if you're willing to DIY, then the price is easily double your costs.

 

[cheesebach]

I just don't see how Steven can justify the markup to the $1,200 price tag on that new Unibrau system. The controller is obviously inferior to the prior versions he's offered, and when compared to the GF Connect it's night and day with the whole Bluetooth/Web Connectivity aspect.

I see he upgraded the pump from those little brown pumps, but that's all of $50. The new basket is interesting with how it seats in the pot and then hangs from the ledge when draining, but a few stainless hooks achieve the same thing with any basket.

Considering what else is on the market, and their price points, I think Unibrau has priced themselves too high by about 25%. And if you're willing to DIY, then the price is easily double your costs.

I have pretty much the same thoughts on this exactly. I was just about ready to pull the trigger on the V2 system in a 2x120V dual element configuration with the EZboil controller back in August when those options disappeared and the new V3 system was announced. Aside from the price increase, it seems this update was kind of 1 step forward and 2 steps back. The new basket does look very appealing (and I would have been OK with the higher price point), but when I noticed the downgrade in the controller and lack of dual element support, it kind of turned me off to the whole thing. Even if someone were to spend the extra to add the second element option that they're offering now, you'd still have to drill the hole for the extra probe yourself or move the temperature sensor to the pump output as they suggest.

The Grainfather certainly seems like a better value at this point, but having done BIAB no-sparge for the past 2 years, I don't think I want to add a sparge back to my process for standard gravity beers.

For now, I'm following other build threads going on and trying to decide what exactly i'd want in doing my own DIY, but kinda still hoping someone comes out with a better full-volume mash prebuilt system, since i'd personally rather be making beer than rigging up a whole system from scratch.

 

[jlinz]

The sparge is so easy on one of these, it will make your head spin.

 

[Bobby_M]

How difficult would it be to mount a heat sink externally? I imagine this would require cutting a hole in the box which would be somewhat labor intensive when doing many.

I think even just having a second switched 15 amp capable element plug that doesnt even really have to be pid controlled would be ideal for many hoping to brew 5-10 gallons with one of these... IMO at that point its easy just to run a separate cord from another circuit but many people want the "cool factor" of controlling it all from one box I think.

Since the back panel is aluminum, an external sink can be screwed on with compound smeared on. It would then need standoffs on the mount holes and it would be best to wall mount to encourage updraft of the heat.

 

[Bobby_M]

I think about 5% of grainfather, mashnboil and robobrew users think the included element is adequate. The other 95% don't. I can't fathom how all the manufacturers assumed most Americans won't go through any effort to gain access to higher amperage circuits for the sake of brewing. All these units should be 2250w optional.

 

[BrunDog]

No replacement for displacement! Wait... that’s for cars... but you get the gist!

 

[enormous13]

I'm hoping they can re-engineer one of these all-in-one kits for 220/240v use, I feel like that'd really appease a lot of the folks that're on the fence about these units. Since these come from an Australian firm, I'd imagine the units they sell domestically have to run on 220v, wouldn't they?

 

[jlinz]

I think about 5% of grainfather, mashnboil and robobrew users think the included element is adequate. The other 95% don't. I can't fathom how all the manufacturers assumed most Americans won't go through any effort to gain access to higher amperage circuits for the sake of brewing. All these units should be 2250w optional.

I respectfully doubt your figures being a member of the robobrew usa thread. A few complain but most think the boil is adequate.

On another note, the fascination with boil strength is pretty American. I need a BIG boil in M'erica! In reality, a super vigorous boil is just not necessary.

 

[cheesebach]

I respectfully doubt your figures being a member of the robobrew usa thread. A few complain but most think the boil is adequate.

On another note, the fascination with boil strength is pretty American. I need a BIG boil in M'erica! In reality, a super vigorous boil is just not necessary.

I don’t necessarily disagree with you that many or maybe even most users of those systems are satisfied with the power of those systems. I also agree that 120v is enough to maintain a good boil. However, (at least for me) the ramp times to mash temp and then to boil temp are more important considerations. I know there’s the option to set up the night before and set the timer to be ready in the morning, but the extra 20-30 minutes of downtime in getting up to boil is still a factor for me, since I’m often pressed for time.

 

[jlinz]

I don’t necessarily disagree with you that many or maybe even most users of those systems are satisfied with the power of those systems. I also agree that 120v is enough to maintain a good boil. However, (at least for me) the ramp times to mash temp and then to boil temp are more important considerations. I know there’s the option to set up the night before and set the timer to be ready in the morning, but the extra 20-30 minutes of downtime in getting up to boil is still a factor for me, since I’m often pressed for time.

It's true, there is a lag. The timer feature is good and cuts time off the front end, but you do have to wait for like 20 minutes after mash to get up to boil.

 

[enormous13]

I'll give Bobby the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was referring to ramp up times, both from start to mash and then from mash out to boil. The whole point of these all-in-one units is convenience, so when it adds another hour to your brew day because of the smaller elements, it kind of negates some of that convenience factor for some people (not all). If they could offer a unit that could match the ramp up times of the DIY systems then I think they'd really be in business.

 

[jlinz]

I'll give Bobby the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was referring to ramp up times, both from start to mash and then from mash out to boil. The whole point of these all-in-one units is convenience, so when it adds another hour to your brew day because of the smaller elements, it kind of negates some of that convenience factor for some people (not all). If they could offer a unit that could match the ramp up times of the DIY systems then I think they'd really be in business.

That's probably true. I was thinking Bobby meant boil. My bad.

As far as convenience goes, speed is part of it, and maybe these units lack in that department (5.5 hours all told) but it is nice to be able to set a timer for strike water so it's ready to go in the morning, mash while watching some soccer on tv in the next room, drop in for a quick sparge, boil and watch some more tv, drain to fermenter, and then only clean maybe 5 or 6 pieces.

Guess you can see I'm a believer...

 

[enormous13]

That's probably true. I was thinking Bobby meant boil. My bad.

As far as convenience goes, speed is part of it, and maybe these units lack in that department (5.5 hours all told) but it is nice to be able to set a timer for strike water so it's ready to go in the morning, mash while watching some soccer on tv in the next room, drop in for a quick sparge, boil and watch some more tv, drain to fermenter, and then only clean maybe 5 or 6 pieces.

Guess you can see I'm a believer...

I totally get why people love these units, I've looked into them more than once or twice myself, and people wouldn't vouch for them if they weren't an enjoyable experience. I think that the next reiteration of the GF, or maybe a new market entrant, will cover the bases that some of us brought up, and it'll really appeal to even more users.

I look at it like this, on Black Friday and around the holidays, the GF connect was available for $900 (and that's about where I cap it, I wouldn't pay the full price tag, personally). Look at some of the other prebuilt systems that're going for that price tag, or even more. I don't think any of those systems offer near the convenience/space savings that the all-in-one units do. I don't want to call any company out, but I'm sure you can imagine who they are.

 

[Bobby_M]

I was being hyperbolic. I know people like them. Based on how many hot rods I've sold this past year, I'd say there are a LOT of people that don't like the wattage on those units though. The instructions for the Mash N' Boil literally say you should reach boil in about 50 minutes.

My real point was that it was short sighted for the manufacturers to assume 'Mericans just have 15 amp circuits and that's that. I know they're going after the 90% rule but it's possible to ship two different things in the same container.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I respectfully doubt your figures being a member of the robobrew usa thread. A few complain but most think the boil is adequate.

On another note, the fascination with boil strength is pretty American. I need a BIG boil in M'erica! In reality, a super vigorous boil is just not necessary.

Insult to Americans aside, I've never worried about a vigorous boil...until my last batch. I was brewing a big stout and I wanted a lot of boil off and maillard reaction. I dialed up the heat and got exactly what I wanted.

 

[_BullDog_]

Did you decide to go with either?

 

[augiedoggy]

I just don't see how Steven can justify the markup to the $1,200 price tag on that new Unibrau system. The controller is obviously inferior to the prior versions he's offered, and when compared to the GF Connect it's night and day with the whole Bluetooth/Web Connectivity aspect.

I see he upgraded the pump from those little brown pumps, but that's all of $50. The new basket is interesting with how it seats in the pot and then hangs from the ledge when draining, but a few stainless hooks achieve the same thing with any basket.

Considering what else is on the market, and their price points, I think Unibrau has priced themselves too high by about 25%. And if you're willing to DIY, then the price is easily double your costs.

he never used the little brown pumps.. the tan/brown ones are food grade. He used an $18 pond pump that was not food grade I went right to the manufacturer in china I found on alibaba and asked..
I agree... The controller appears to be an stc1000 ($9) on ebay and the kettles are still the same ones that appear to be from bayou classics manufacturer and we all know those are usually dirt cheap (I have 3 myself) the pump he uses now is the single most expensive component of the system at around $100 as far as I can tell.

 

[augiedoggy]

I'm hoping they can re-engineer one of these all-in-one kits for 220/240v use, I feel like that'd really appease a lot of the folks that're on the fence about these units. Since these come from an Australian firm, I'd imagine the units they sell domestically have to run on 220v, wouldn't they?

They came from china... at least the robobrew and mash and boil and the like... You can find them on alibaba. the grainfather was likely designed in OZ and built in china. The others were likely chinese designed clones (since they all started life as a cheap hot water urn its not hard to modify them) the markup is ridculous on all of them.. The grainfather is about $200-250 retail in components.. They spend a lot on marketing which the buyer pays for. as far as the Robobrew and mash and boil? I was emailed by alibaba seller who were tracking my browser activity while looking and I was quoted under $100 each if I bought 10 or more "mash and boil" units...

You can find just about everyone of keg kings (also an Aussie company) products on aliexpress or alibaba either with or without the keg king branding on the packaging I tyhink the production of some of the stuff started with keg king and other stuff Ive seen for sale before kegking decided to put thier name on it and resell it..

They sell the mm3 clone that kegco also sells as the kegco 3 roller, keg king calls it the maltmunchier. The 2 roller kegking maltmunchier is also sold as the cereal killer and the kegco 2 roller mill.. I also have taps (both intertap and older flow control with kegkings name on it. My blichman beergun clone is a keg king brand item..
I think they often just look for knockoffs to sell where the originals arent being some and eventually they end up being offered where they are as well (in the states)

I still think something is odd about Brau being a Canadian company that doesnt advertise its products for sale in their own country? I imagine it has something to do with electrical codes and regulations there.

 

[ihavenonickname]

I have pretty much the same thoughts on this exactly. I was just about ready to pull the trigger on the V2 system in a 2x120V dual element configuration with the EZboil controller back in August when those options disappeared and the new V3 system was announced. Aside from the price increase, it seems this update was kind of 1 step forward and 2 steps back. The new basket does look very appealing (and I would have been OK with the higher price point), but when I noticed the downgrade in the controller and lack of dual element support, it kind of turned me off to the whole thing. Even if someone were to spend the extra to add the second element option that they're offering now, you'd still have to drill the hole for the extra probe yourself or move the temperature sensor to the pump output as they suggest.

The Grainfather certainly seems like a better value at this point, but having done BIAB no-sparge for the past 2 years, I don't think I want to add a sparge back to my process for standard gravity beers.

For now, I'm following other build threads going on and trying to decide what exactly i'd want in doing my own DIY, but kinda still hoping someone comes out with a better full-volume mash prebuilt system, since i'd personally rather be making beer than rigging up a whole system from scratch.

I totally agree and I am in your exact position.
The new Robobrew v3 just came out and it pretty attractive at that price. Just about all the features as the GF at half the price. Hesitations at this point just being single element, longer brew day and having to sparge.

Did you make a decision yet?

 

[cheesebach]

I totally agree and I am in your exact position.
The new Robobrew v3 just came out and it pretty attractive at that price. Just about all the features as the GF at half the price. Hesitations at this point just being single element, longer brew day and having to sparge.

Did you make a decision yet?

I haven’t yet. At this point, I’m kinda playing the waiting game to see whether Ss Brewtech comes out with something to compete in the eBIAB market in the next month or two. Otherwise, I still go back and forth between Unibrau/GF or DIY.

 

[DevilsCups]

the kettles are still the same ones that appear to be from bayou classics manufacturer and we all know those are usually dirt cheap

Not a chance. I have both this and a tri-ply Bayou and the Unibraus is far thicker and more substantial than my Bayou. This feels way more like SS Brewtechs. Even the volume markings are similar to SSB's.

 

[bronzdragon]

I think about 5% of grainfather, mashnboil and robobrew users think the included element is adequate. The other 95% don't. I can't fathom how all the manufacturers assumed most Americans won't go through any effort to gain access to higher amperage circuits for the sake of brewing. All these units should be 2250w optional.

While I agree that a larger heating element would be nice, on my first brew this weekend using the GrainFather and it's insulating jacket, it maintained a nice rolling boil without issue. If you didn't have the jacket, I can see the boil being on the light side.
/cheers

 

[jlinz]

In the market for one of these now that my Robobrew bit the dust (elemnt died and so the whole thing had to be scrapped). One of the advantages of the Unibrau looks to be that the element can be exchanged. Seems to make the unit last forever. I think the Grainfather also has to be junked if the element goes out.

 

[cheesebach]

In the market for one of these now that my Robobrew bit the dust (elemnt died and so the whole thing had to be scrapped). One of the advantages of the Unibrau looks to be that the element can be exchanged. Seems to make the unit last forever. I think the Grainfather also has to be junked if the element goes out.

I agree that assessment, which is one of just a couple things that have kept me from purchasing a Grainfather. You might also want to check the Clawhammer Supply BIAB system, which is similar to the Unibrau, but with a mesh basket instead of the proprietary solid wall basket on the V3. It’s also nearly $500 cheaper.

I’m still waiting to see whether Ss Brewtech releases a BIAB system in the next month before making any decisions.

 

[jlinz]

Is this Clawhammer system the same kind of quality as the Unibrau? I sort of made the mistake of going with a cheaper imitation when considering the Grainfather and went with the Robobrew, which was crap, honestly.

 

[waldo711]

I’m curious about the controllers used in the Unibrau v3 and Clawhammer. Are they essentially similar internally, just with different “user interface”? I like just about everything with the Unibrau, but the price difference is significant....

 

[DevilsCups]

I'm a few batches in with my Unibrau V3. The quality of the parts are all very, very solid. The few things I would like to change :

- The hop basket is not sized properly for what I want to brew. If I keep my boil volumes to around 6-6.5 gallons, the 6x14 basket only submerges around 1/3 of the way. This will prove to make 6oz hop-bills a little tricky. I'll either look towards adding another basket or finding a deeper one.

- The heating times are fine, and I boil fine. I'll likely go with the added element some time in the near future just to cut down the heating time.

- The basket is a royal PITA to clean when brewing in a small apartment haha. But that was to be expected. You can just look at it and tell. Also, getting all of the trub / break / hop debris out of the kettle prior to recircing PBW/Oxi is a little challenging.

All in all, works great. Very solid construction. Easy as hell to operate. The plate chiller work amazingly fast. I just have to be diligent with keeping it cleaned.

 

[augiedoggy]

Not a chance. I have both this and a tri-ply Bayou and the Unibraus is far thicker and more substantial than my Bayou. This feels way more like SS Brewtechs. Even the volume markings are similar to SSB's.

I was going on information from the older unibrau system kettles the new kettles are completely different.

 

[augiedoggy]

Is this Clawhammer system the same kind of quality as the Unibrau? I sort of made the mistake of going with a cheaper imitation when considering the Grainfather and went with the Robobrew, which was crap, honestly.

In this case the clawhammer in not a cheap imitation of the unibrau v3. The unbrau could be arguably a cheaper imitation of the brewboss but thats a stretch as well since the brewboss is a lot more complex.

The truth is standard biab variants like the clawhammer and unibrau are just bulk built home brewing biab setups like someone would build at home.. None of these systems really have anything unique about them that wasnt used by other systems and home brewers before they reached the market. The robo, and mash and boil copied the fact that the grainfather used a cheaper stamped hot water urn for the basis of their system.. brewboss was the first to commercially use the brew basket that I know of. (BTW in a recirculating system a bag or unibraus solid wall grain holder should perform better all other things being equal, to a basket with open mesh sides.

I know all the components on the clawhammer are also available on aliexpress so its east enough to price them out if one is concerned about paying too much but doesnt want to drill thier own holes and wants the assembly instructions as well as operating directions and the support that comes along with it.. Other than that both seem to be kits the buyer has to assemble themselves. That said the markups there seem to be pretty reasonable which should be an advantage to buying in bulk and the better prices they can get for the components they form into kits. Going by the stand alone inkbird controller which is $149 plus shipping on clawhammers site vs the $85 they can be found for on sale from time to time and their $99 retail there is still a hefty markup there for reselling unless im missing something.

The clawhammer does appear to use a real pid controller not just a thermostat hysterisis controller like the uni which "should" result in better temp control and ramping without the overshoot. But no one has done side by side comparisions of the stc based systems to the pid for this use.

 

[augiedoggy]

Hey Augiedoggy, do you have any links to the AliExpress baskets? Cheers!

so I just looked because I was curious. aliexpress only has the small ones now... you have to order a "sample" from alibaba... in small quantities it will likely be closer to $80 with shipping.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-det...?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.198.2adb6d24r640nB

 

[cheesebach]

I'm a few batches in with my Unibrau V3. The quality of the parts are all very, very solid. The few things I would like to change :

- The hop basket is not sized properly for what I want to brew. If I keep my boil volumes to around 6-6.5 gallons, the 6x14 basket only submerges around 1/3 of the way. This will prove to make 6oz hop-bills a little tricky. I'll either look towards adding another basket or finding a deeper one.

- The heating times are fine, and I boil fine. I'll likely go with the added element some time in the near future just to cut down the heating time.

- The basket is a royal PITA to clean when brewing in a small apartment haha. But that was to be expected. You can just look at it and tell. Also, getting all of the trub / break / hop debris out of the kettle prior to recircing PBW/Oxi is a little challenging.

All in all, works great. Very solid construction. Easy as hell to operate. The plate chiller work amazingly fast. I just have to be diligent with keeping it cleaned.

Thanks for the update! Regarding the mash basket cleanup - is there something about the special solid-walled one that the Unibrau uses that makes cleaning it more difficult? Or do you think you would have the same struggles with one of the more common stainless mesh baskets that the Clawhammer and some other systems use? I'm currently doing BIABag (rather than BIABasket) so I can easily just turn the bag inside out to dump the grain and then give the bag a quick rinse and shake. Something for me to think about.

Also, your comment about cleaning the kettle out after chilling made me wonder - how do Grainfather users manage this step? I'd imagine lifting up the whole GF unit, controller and pump and all, to dump out all the trub might be even more tricky than something where the controller and pumps are separate.