Need Some Advice on Kegging

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mark1765

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I have been reading a lot about this and I actually already have a chest freezer that I was planning on building a Keezer out of, but I may go in another direction temporarily . I have several questions but first is if you were going to set up a system to build off of, such as 1 or 2 kegs for now with the possibility of growing to 3 to 4 later, which Regulator would you use? My thoughts are to purchase the TapRite Dual Co2 Reg and that would give me the ability to have 2 kegs up and running, or one keg running and the ability to force carb with the other reg. But most of the nice keezers that I see use the single dual gauge reg and from there they go too a row of 2,3,4 or how ever many secondary regs they need. Also my thoughts are I have a beer fridge in the garage that I am thinking of starting out there with one keg and adding the tap on the door, and latter moving everything to the keezer when I have time to build it, and putting together a list of what I need without going with a predetermined kit is a little confusing. For instance which lines do I want? There are several options on thickness, material, and even the different connections for the lines, such as barbed or MFL. Also some people say that you need 10' of line or you will not get a good pour, others say 5' will work fine. If I'm going to start in a fridge buying 10' of beer line to have to coil up and keep out of the way seems a little crazy but that's why I'm asking.
Sorry for the long post but I could use some input and pictures would even be better.
 
I would start with 10' lines. You can always trim more off if your pours are coming out too slow. More problematic to add to existing line with more line. Wire ties will help manage your coil of line. But I don't think it will be as much coil as you are perceiving.
I use thick walled red tubing for my co2 and the thinner clear tubing for my liquid lines but really just depends on what you have available. As for the co2 regulator. I use a two regulator body to serve three kegs. One reg runs into a distribution block and feeds two kegs. The other reg feeds one keg. That way I can have different beers at differing pressures. I rarely have a need to change the pressure but is nice if I want a lager around 12psi and a keg of soda water around 25-30 psi. Or any other carbonated beverage for that matter. Just easier being able to serve different psi to style. Typically just serve around 12psi for most ales or lagers though.
 
Thanks for your response, I guess was expecting a few more responses, on the types of lines most people use. Also I'm a little overwhelmed by all of the different options on connections. I know that some people use the winged nuts and the shanks, or the hex nuts, and some people change them over to the MFL fittings on both ends. just looking for some reasons for the different was of doing it.
 
I use whatever beverage tubing they sell at my LHBS. I have a mix of ball lock and pin lock kegs, so I use the flare nut connections on all my lines so I can switch lines between ball/pin lock connectors as needed. I have about 6' of line on my kegs, and about 15' on the soda line. I started out with a single regulator split into two kegs, then a single regulator into a 4 way manifold, then found a two-body regulator and added it on to my single so I have a three-body regulator on a 20lb tank now.
 
Well, I've gone through a couple different lines...

At first, I went with whatever "generic" beverage line Northern Brewer was supplying - 3/16" ID, and I went with either 7' or 8 lengths (don't remember for sure). That worked for the most part, but I occasionally got a foamy pour. I was a bit afraid that 10' would just take up too much space in the fridge. I shouldn't have worried.

Last year I decided to replace all my lines, and tried to go with the bev seal ultral. Still 3/16" ID, aiming for 10' lengths this time around. And that line had a few things going against it, in my opinion. It was WAY too rigid. I couldn't even get it onto most of my quick disconnects, and it was so rigid that coiling it into a nice, neat, compact coil on top of the keg was difficult. After fighting, and failing, to get my second or third (of four) lines converted, I bailed on the stuff and picked up another well reviewed beverage line (I'm really sorry - I don't remember what it was off the top of my head, but I'll try to look it up later). 3/16" ID, and definitely a thinner walled line than my original. This stuff went onto all my connectors like a dream, works like a champ, coils up nice and compact, and never threw any sign of an off taste. 10' coils up into a nice little pile on top of the cornie keg, very manageable.

I typically use MFL's and swivel barbs on all my connectors. Initially I did it just because I wanted the flexibility to be able to swap out by ball-lock connectors for a sanke tap (also with MFL's) without having to fish out the one gas and one liquid line that was set up with the appropriate QD's to do so. I think functionally there's not much difference - sure, on occasion one might break and need to be replaced, and it's sure easier to replace one connected via MFL than via barb, but that's a pretty rare occasion.

There are also stainless QD's available. Those look pretty, but I can't imagine they're worth the cost.

As to connecting tailpieces to shanks - well, so long as you have a wrench big enough, there's just not that much benefit to a winged nut over a regular hex. I've taken my tail pieces off twice in the past 6 years - the two times I had to replace or upgrade my keg fridge. The hex also have the benefit of being able to fit into tighter spaces, if that's an issue for you.

Oh yeah - and regs - I use a single regulator and a splitter to distribute the gas. I don't worry about serving different beers at different pressures (though I do wonder what my saison might be like with more carbonation...) and I'm patient enough to either set-it-and forget it when it comes to carbonation or just carbonate my on-deck keg while I continue to enjoy those that are on-tap.
 
My keezer I use a single regulator that then flows to a Tapright 4 regulator so I can adjust each keg as needed. I use 10 feet of beer line and that has worked out great as I don't have a foamy mess like I had when I started with shorter line. My 4 taps are Perlick 630 SS with SS shanks. I spent a little more than I wanted but I did not have to go back keep upgrading. :mug:
 
I run run of the mill 1/4" PVC on the gas lines and LDPE on the beverage lines. I can taste PVC lines even on "real Bevlex". I hate to bring this back up again since I got more or less pounded on another thread. I REALLY WISH I had a secondary regulator.. I'm looking for sales, lets say it that way.

I like the 3/16" LDPE as it's a high burst strength, if handled properly, and it's smoother than PVC.. so what I tell people in person is a rule of 10. Start at 10 PSI with 10' of the stuff and if it's too slow for you (no one I know personally ever trimmed it) then start trimming it back. That's at about 37F and normal ale volumes. Easy Peasy.

Yes, if you move the LDPE line a lot it could potentially break easier. Don't do that.
 
I'm kind of in the same boat you are, just putting together my first keezer, and trying to learn and absorb as much as I can. Here's a few snippets I've learned / believe that can maybe help you out:

First off: before you even begin, PLAN! Decide how many kegs and faucets will ultimately fit in your chest freezer, whether you're going to put your gas bottle and regulators inside or outside the keezer, whether you're going to go with only CO2 or with a CO2 system and a nitro system, etc. Make a plan, buy your stuff to fulfill that plan, and ONLY buy stuff that will further that plan! But make that plan flexible, in case you really couldn't fit that many kegs in it, or in case you have to mount your shanks in a different location to accommodate the ability to pull your kegs in and out, etc. What model chest freezer BTW? There's a post somewhere on here that shows diagrams of many popular models and what all can fit in them.

Faucets: people who buy crappy chrome plated faucets always find that they start to flake off and eventually upgrade. Just start with stainless steel (preferably forward seal) faucets and they'll last through all your future keezer / kegerator updates.

Another note on faucets: If you were to get flow control faucets, your lines may not need to be so long. I went with Perlick 650ss and 5' lines.

Shanks: same deal, start with stainless. People say to get as long as you can in order to create a nice cold mass of steel for that first pour to sit in; but length is going to depend on how your collar is built, etc.; and on a keezer especially, you got to make sure you don't go so long that you can't get your kegs in and out! That is, unless you build a whole new lid that actually contains the shanks and faucets as it tilts up, but that's not a beginner topic.

Another item on shanks: they do make shanks with integrated nipples (instead of that use a tailpiece); but I personally decided against them for at least three reasons: 1) If I bust off a nipple through some sloppy keg-moving, I'd have to buy a whole new shank. 2) Can you run a cleaning brush through a shank with an integrated nipple? 3) Tailpiece type can be changed from barb to flare if you wish.

Regulator: I'd say just start with a single primary with a "wye" (or a 2-way manifold) that leads to two check valved shut-offs. Start off your 2-keg adventure with similar styles that can be carbed the same. As I think has been said, in a future update one leg of the wye (or 2-way manifold) can be dedicated to keg purging / force carbing duties, while the other leg feeds a multi-way manifold or multi-bank secondary. I went with a Taprite primary with wye, my next update will be a multi-bank of Taprite secondaries (and more kegs of course!)

I guess if you absolutely NEED 2 different pressures right off the bat, a dual primary is not a bad investment. As was also said, upon later upgrade that second primary can be used to reduce the number of secondaries you'll need.

And yes, I believe check valves between any keg and any regulator are very important so as to not run beer up your gas lines and screw up your regulator.

Barb versus flare: I want to be flare everywhere possible, for two reasons I can think of: 1) you can build all your lines "at the bench" instead of shoving tubing on a barb while hovering over your keezer, breaking **** when your hand slips. 2) You can have spare lines pre-built that can quickly and easily be put into service with just a few turns of a wrench. Me personally, I didn't realize I wanted all-flare when I started acquiring stuff, so right now I've got kind of a mix of flare and barb. Standardizing everything to all-flare is my next, next upgrade--if I had it all to do over, I would have gone all-flare from the outset.

Lines: seems like the standard is soft-tubing gas lines that are 5/16" ID / 9/16" OD, and soft-tubing bev lines that are 3/8" ID / 5/8" OD. In that size and style your choice seems to be basic vinyl (PVC) or PVC-free barrier-style tubing. I went with the PVC-free, because it'd suck if my beer tasted like vinyl.

Another note on lines: many people have gone to polyethylene hard-tubing and John Guest fittings for the bev lines, and even for the gas lines. I can see the benefit of quick and easy line changes (especially on the bev side), it will transfer no plastic-y flavors, and the line itself is generally cheaper than any but the suckiest vinyl lines. I guess there's also the benefit of being able to color-code everything to avoid mixing up lines and such. And also if you're running your gas bottle outside the keezer then the holes you drill for the lines can be smaller. For me: if I'd realized poly tubing was an option at the outset, I might have designed for it--not such a huge deal for me as my gas is inside the keezer, and I plan for it to always stay inside. As it stands, I see it as maybe a future upgrade kind of thing, after I've exhausted all other keezer spending upgrade opportunities :)

A few others: Seems like no one place, no matter how well-stocked, sells everything you want to build your system just the way you want it. Also, you'll find that Place 1 has Item A for $25 and item B for $5, while Place 2 has identical Item A for $5 and identical Item B for $25. And Place 3 has both items for $1 each, but wants $30 for shipping. And if you call a manufacturer with a technical question about a part or assembly 3 different times, you'll get 3 completely different and conflicting answers. And if you're lucky, when you buy the thing you'll find out that one of the 3 answers was actually partially correct!


I hope that was helpful.
 
Thanks for the comments guys, this is really helping me make my decisions. I now know that I am going to use all flare fittings where I can (Thanks agrazela) and you also confirmed what I was thinking about everything being stainless. You are the first person that has suggested to use as long of a shank as possible and explained why. Again thank you. Stratslinger you answered my questions about the more expensive ridged lines and a couple of people have mentioned the 10' lines being the way to go, so that's what I am going with. I will probably be ordering some stuff from a couple of different places to get what I want and I will probably start with a small system in the fridge to be transferred to the keezer after building it. Any more ideas please share away
 
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