Need Advice on APA/IPA

[MrBinsky]

I'm putting together a recipe for a hoppy American Pale Ale/IPA. I have tried this SNPA clone recipe http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?t=15532 and I really like it, but I want to put my twist on it. I love Amarillo and Citra so I figured I'd use those. I also have been wanting to play around with exclusively using late boil hops to provide a smoother hop bitterness.

So in summary, I want an APA with a fair amount of hop flavor, but not too high/smooth bitterness.

Grains:
Mash at 153 60min
11.5 lbs 2-row
1 lb Crystal 60

Hops:
1.0oz Citra 15min
1.0oz Citra 10min
0.25oz Amarillo 10min
0.75oz Amarillo 5min
1.0oz Amarillo dry hop ~5days

Yeast:
WLP001

I get around 75-80% efficiency on my system. Thoughts?

 

[sandyeggoxj]

Did you calculate IBUs? I would want a clean bittering hop earlier on. Magnum or Warrior. But just a little to provide a little hop backbone without going overboard on the bitterness.

 

[GlenF]

I would do this:
1oz Citra @ 30mins
1oz Citra @ 15
1oz Amarillo @15
1.5 oz Citra @ whirlpool
1.5 oz Amarillo @ whirlpool

1.5oz each in dry hop

Otherwise, your nose will be fairly subdued.

 

[MrBinsky]

I have IBUs calculated at 41.6. GlenF that sound pretty good, but the IBUs might be slightly higher than I'm looking for. I figure to calculate whirlpool IBU I should just punch them in the boil time but with about half the oz? So like, for a 15 minute whirlpool with 1oz, I would punch it in as 15min with 0.5oz?

 

[GlenF]

I wouldn't worry about the bitterness from this method. The real (and perceived) bitterness will probably be lower,especially with that lb of crystal.
Also, not sure about whirlpool bitterness. It might depend on temp, time, and each hop. It shouldn't provide much anyhow.

 

[RonPopeil]

I will second the bittering addition suggestion. Also, Citra and Amarillo are both very aromatic. Looks like your OG is close to 1.070 so I would consider doing your additions at 60, 30 and 15. something like

.75-1.0oz Nugget/Warrior/Magnum @ 60
0.5-1.0 Citra/Amarillo @ 30
1.0-1.5 Citra/Amarillo @ 15
4.0-6.0 ounces @ 0 or whirlpool or hopstand.

 

[89vision]

I actually brewed a belgian/American pale ale using saaz and Nelson sauvin hops recently, mainly using late additions. The hops aren't all too similar to yours, but it's close to being ready for bottling (probably this weekend), so I'll let you know how it goes if that would be helpful. I have an IPA using almost exclusively late additions, but I don't have that recipe in front of me at the moment. Probably another week or two for that one.

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[MrBinsky]

Thanks for the input guys. I don't want to be that guy who asks for advice and then doesn't listen, but I really want to keep my bitterness low. Ideally I want it at around 40 to 45.

How about:
0.5oz Magnum @ 60min
2oz Citra @ Whirlpool
2oz Amarillo @ Whirlpool
1oz of each in dryhop

I know that whirlpool is basically impossible to calculate as there are so many variables, but based on what I've read, I roughly calculated this hop schedule at around 50IBU. The way I got it was by punching it in with the boil time as my whirlpool time but with half the oz. I also tried it with putting the full amount of oz at 5 min before the end of the boil.

Both methods are what I have found is recommended online and they both actually give me almost the same calculations. I figure that if two different methods of estimation are both giving me about the same result, that is a good sign that they are hopefully accurate.

 

[GlenF]

What if you move that Magnum addition to 30mins?
Also, I'd put as much or more hops in the dry hop. You'll lose some of those whirlpool aromatics from fermentation and yeast scrubbing.

.5oz Magnum @30 mins
1oz Citra + 1oz Amarillo @ whirlpool
1.5 oz each in dry hop

(add more at 15 if you want more IBUs)

Also, what is your OG and est. FG?

 

[hunter306]

If you're looking for ultra low bitterness, I think it'd be ok to go with the Lower AA (my last batch was like 8.x%) Amarillo (maybe .4oz at 60min), to keep things simple. No need to get another type of hop in there, especially a high AA hop if you're not after that big bitter.

I do agree though, I think you'll want SOME 60 minute hop addition.

 

[MrBinsky]

My OG is 1.068 and FG is 1.017. If I move the bittering addition to 30 mins, then maybe I should forget the magnum and just use Citra like you first recommended.

1oz Citra @ 30 mins
1oz Citra and 1oz Amarillo @ whirlpool
2 oz each in dry hop

I'm hitting around 45-48 IBUs now. How does that look?

Edit:
@hunter306:
Good point, but I just really want both Amarillo and Citra in there for flavor/aroma. Two of my favorite hops.

 

[dobe12]

I just posted this in another thread, but here it goes again. Think about this:

Magnum (US) 0.5 oz 60 min Boil Pellet 11.3%
Citra (US) 0.5 oz 15 min Boil Pellet 14.4%
Citra (US) 0.5 oz 10 min Boil Pellet 14.4%
Citra (US) 0.5 oz 5 min Boil Pellet 14.4%
Citra (US) 1.0 oz 1 min Boil Pellet 14.4%
Citra (US) 1.0 oz 7 days Dry Hop Pellet 14.4%

Of course you could swap out some of that citra with amarillo. This beer came out awesome. Citra is very strong and dominating. A little goes a long way. Personally I really love the big hop flavor and aroma I get when adding several additions within the last 20min.

 

[GlenF]

With that FG/ OG, you're at about 6.5% abv. And FG of 1.017 is fairly sweet. You might want more than 40 IBUs otherwise, you're brewing an amber. I'd lower your base malt if you want more of an APA.

You want 5% +/- .5 abv and 40-45 IBUs. Unless you just don't like bitterness, then brew as is!

 

[MrBinsky]

With that FG/ OG, you're at about 6.5% abv. And FG of 1.017 is fairly sweet. You might want more than 40 IBUs otherwise, you're brewing an amber. I'd lower your base malt if you want more of an APA.

You want 5% +/- .5 abv and 40-45 IBUs. Unless you just don't like bitterness, then brew as is!

Brought it down to slightly to 11lbs. That gives me an OG of 1.065, an FG of 1.016, and ABV of 6.4. I'm good with the extra maltiness in there. I want the hop flavor of an IPA but low bitterness. Thanks for the advice!

 

[GlenF]

Sure thing! But if you're looking for IPA flavors, you definitely want a solid Flameout charge of 2-4oz and 3-4oz for dry hop. Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[MrBinsky]

I won't be making it for probably about a month as I just brewed a brown ale last week, but I'll post an update when I move forward with this batch.

 

[GlenF]

Ah, cool. I'm actually planning a very similar recipe. But for my American ales, I like to balance abv with IBUs. So I'm shooting for something akin to a Zombie Dust around 6.5% and 65 IBUs, finishing around 1.013-14 for some residual sweetness and that juicy hop punch.

 

[mbbransc]

You can do all late additions if you want. I recently brewed an APA with all late additions (first was warrior at 15min, then all cascade and citra from 10min through whirlpool and dry hop). It's important to dry hop heavily to have the impression you're looking for.

I did all maris otter grist at 5% ABV, just FYI.


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[MrBinsky]

You can do all late additions if you want. I recently brewed an APA with all late additions (first was warrior at 15min, then all cascade and citra from 10min through whirlpool and dry hop). It's important to dry hop heavily to have the impression you're looking for.

I did all maris otter grist at 5% ABV, just FYI.


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That's pretty interesting. Know how it turned out yet? And have a recipe/hop schedule I could look at?

 

[mbbransc]

That's pretty interesting. Know how it turned out yet? And have a recipe/hop schedule I could look at?

I have the recipe in Beersmith but I'm out of town working right now. It turned out great. It's one of the better pale ales I've had; super hoppy. Great aroma and flavor. Easy drinker.

Off the top of my head (I did a 3.5gal batch)

enough maris otter to get to 1.050 OG
0.7oz warrior - 15min
1.0oz cascade - 10min
1.5oz citra - 5min
0.5oz citra - flameout
whirlpool'd for ~15-20 minutes
1oz citra dry hop 4 days
1oz cascade dry hop 4 days

I don't remember my target IBU but I adjusted the warrior 15min addition to get what I was looking for.

 

[MrBinsky]

Okay awesome. I'll play around with it tonight when I get home.


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[Aconrad21]

Whirlpool hop addition??? Do you get much from this?

 

[MrBinsky]

So I've revised the hop schedule:
0.5oz Perle 60 min
2oz each Amarillo and Citra whirlpool
2oz each Amarilla and Citra Dry hop

IBUs are calculated at around 40.

On another note I was also thinking about my head retention. I know it will be adequate, but think I should mess with it? Or will it be good?

 

[GlenF]

With your mash schedule, Crystal Malts, and all those delightful hop oils, your head retention will be spectacular!