My tour of Belgium, how did I do?

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JonClayton

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You may remember my post last week "burned out on my homebrew" in which I asked for a style suggestion to get me out of the rut of dark ales/stouts. Many of you recommended Belgians but I had not tried any Belgians with the exception of "belgian style wits" ie: Bluemoon. So, after a quick trip to my craft brew store here is what I purchased:

Monks Cafe Flemish Sour Ale
Piraat Ale
St. Sebastian Golden
St. Bernardus Abt. 12
Sterkens Dubble Ale

Did I purchase a decent selection to allow me to see the various categories within the style?

So far I have had the sour ale, which was interesting. I liked it and would be interesting in brewing something similar, but definitely would not be a daily drinker for me. My wife and I also tried and loved the Piraat ale and I am not digging for a good clone recipe.

I plan to try the last three this week.
 
olllllo said:
Add Saison Dupont See if you can round up a Belgian Pale Ale like De Koninck. These are lower abv but also very enjoyable.
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Agreed, and also look for an Orval or other Bretty example.

And if you didn't run away from the Monk's Cafe, consider a true kriek or framboise from Cantillon, Hanssen, etc (stay away from Lindeman's, Liefman, and St Louis, except for the Lindeman's Cuvee Rene).

The St Bernardus 12 is really fantastic, enjoy!
 
Yeah, St. Bernardus Abt. 12 is awesome. I'd second Westmalle, though I'd try the Dubbel and Tripel if I were you.

And it may sounds simple, but since nobody, including you, has mentioned it, I'd recommend Duvel if you haven't had it. It's a reliably awesome beer.

And when the time comes to brew some of these or similar beers, you can find which yeasts are from where here:

http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm
 
Second Duvel, as mentioned by Matt it's very reliable. If you can find it Victory Brewing's Golden Monkey is a pretty good belgian.
 
Thank you for all the suggestions, I will make a trip back to the beer exchange and get some of these recommendations.

I was thinking the the St. Sebastian Golden would be of similar style to the Duvel, is this the case?

My local pub is now offering Duvel, maybe I will just pony up the $$ and try one there. This "tour of belgium" is getting expensive :)

Bringing the discussion back to homebrew, I am finding most belgian kits are faily expesnive $45 and up for an extract without much break in price for a partial or all grain, is this normally the case or am I looking in the wrong places?
 
JonClayton said:
I was thinking the the St. Sebastian Golden would be of similar style to the Duvel, is this the case?

My local pub is now offering Duvel, maybe I will just pony up the $$ and try one there. This "tour of belgium" is getting expensive :)
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I don't think they're the same at all myself. They're both well worth trying.
 
St. Bernardus, Westmalle, Lindeman's Cuvee Rene, Trappistes Rochefort, Maredsous.

Then try the Canadian La Fin du Monde by Unibroue.
 
We picked up a framboise lambic over the weekend, Lindermans I believe. My wife absolutely loved it, I can drink it in small quantities, but definitely a daily drinker for me. I think I will be forced by my wife to brew one soon. Duvel is next to try. I drank my Apt 12 last night and it is my favorite of all the brews I've listed.

You folks give wonderful advice, thanks :)
 
JonClayton said:
We picked up a framboise lambic over the weekend, Lindermans I believe. My wife absolutely loved it, I can drink it in small quantities, but definitely a daily drinker for me. I think I will be forced by my wife to brew one soon. Duvel is next to try. I drank my Apt 12 last night and it is my favorite of all the brews I've listed.

You folks give wonderful advice, thanks :)
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Good luck with the Lindermans. They back sweeten the hell out of it. Don't think you can brew it unless you keg. Just an FYI.

Have you tried Rochfort 10? It's freaking fantastic, worth the ridiculous price.
 
JonClayton said:
My wife absolutely loved it, I can drink it in small quantities, but definitely a daily drinker for me. I think I will be forced by my wife to brew one soon.
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I wish you the very best of luck brewing a Lindeman's clone, even one that's close. Many have asked how but there's no clear, cut and dry answer. While it may not be a traditional lambic, it is good for what it is; a sweet, beerish beverage. From what I learned in Belgium, this style of "lambic" is only fermented a few months (opposed to potentially years with traditional lambic) before being sweetened and pasteurized. I'm not 100% sure if they are refermented in the bottle and then pasteurized or are pasteurized and then force carbed. I do know they use aromas, fruit juice, and sugar to attain the flavor / smell profiles though.

If you can find them, there are other examples like St. Louis, Floris, Boon, and numerous others are out there that are much like Lindeman's. Lindeman's is actually more expensive in Belgium than most other sweet lambics. Don't know why but that's the case.

Additionally, if you're looking for a traditional and relatively affordable lambic, look for Cantillon. I was just at their brewery a couple of weeks back and met the current owner / brewer and have to say they are very personable and it is well worth the trip there. Also, if you like sours, Rodenbach and Dutchess are both worth searching for on your tour of Belgium.

And finally, fresh Orval is a totally different beer than aged Orval. I was shocked at the difference. The price difference in Belgian bars is about a Euro more for 1 year old Orval vs. fresh, btw.
 
I'll echo the Duvel and Westmalle Dubbel. Also Goudon Carolus. I like a lambic now and then and have looked at recipes, but it takes so long to age one and it's difficult to get it right, so I just buy one when I'm in the mood.
 
Hex said:
Then try the Canadian La Fin du Monde by Unibroue.
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A great beer, especially for the price. It is definitely among the 2-3 best triples to my taste.

Speaking of Belgian style beers that won't break the bank, most of Ommegang's brews are very good and definitely affordable. A 750ml bottle of Hennepin for $6 or less is a steal!
 
Barc said:
I wish you the very best of luck brewing a Lindeman's clone, even one that's close. Many have asked how but there's no clear, cut and dry answer. While it may not be a traditional lambic, it is good for what it is; a sweet, beerish beverage. From what I learned in Belgium, this style of "lambic" is only fermented a few months (opposed to potentially years with traditional lambic) before being sweetened and pasteurized. I'm not 100% sure if they are refermented in the bottle and then pasteurized or are pasteurized and then force carbed.
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Lindemans main line is refermented in the bottle after being backsweetened with unfermentable artificial sweeteners. They use acesulfame potassium (available to brewers under brand names Sunett and Sweet One in Europe) to sweeten with. Acesulfame K is not widely available in the US, so I've heard of homebrewers using sucralose instead. Be aware if you go that direction that some brands of sucralose-based sweeteners (e.g. Splenda) also include a measure of dextrose and/or maltodextrin, so you want to let things ferment out fully after adding the sweetener before priming and bottling.

Lindemans also has the Cuvee Rene line that isn't backsweetened and tastes more like a real Belgian lambic (in the Hanssen's/Cantillon/Drei Fontaine/etc vein).
 
SumnerH said:
Lindemans main line is refermented in the bottle after being backsweetened with unfermentable artificial sweeteners. They use acesulfame potassium (available to brewers under brand names Sunett and Sweet One in Europe) to sweeten with. Acesulfame K is not widely available in the US, so I've heard of homebrewers using sucralose instead. Be aware if you go that direction that some brands of sucralose-based sweeteners (e.g. Splenda) also include a measure of dextrose and/or maltodextrin, so you want to let things ferment out fully after adding the sweetener before priming and bottling.

Lindemans also has the Cuvee Rene line that isn't backsweetened and tastes more like a real Belgian lambic (in the Hanssen's/Cantillon/Drei Fontaine/etc vein).
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Very good to know. I also am nearly positive it is pasteurized to kill the yeasts, as well, since there is real fruit juice in there and I was told this by a couple of brewers in Belgium but not by the source so take it with a grain of salt, I guess. I've tried several times to culture this yeast but I've never had any luck where I have with basically all non-sweetened lambics / sours. And the sweeteners make sense, too. It tastes a lot different (to me) than anything artifical we can get easily here in the US. And yes, Splenda uses maltodextrin so putting that into a lambic at bottling would likely result in bottle-bombs pretty quick! Now if you could get your hands on pure sucralose...

I had Lindeman's Faro and Cuvee Rene while I was in Belgium. Much different animals than their sweetened line. I appreciated the fact that they try to play both sides of the fence (traditional and not) to appeal to a much broader market. Make what sells. I had a couple of Cantillion's basically straight out of the tap in the brewery and I've had Hanssen's many times (VERY good for culturing, btw) here in the States. Drie Fountaine is a little harder to find here but I had it while in Belgium this last time. Very good examples. Boon also makes a line of non-sweetened sours, as well.
 
Get Chimay Blue/grand reserve or your tour of belgium is a failure!!!!

+1 to the Rochefort suggestions, although my favorite is Rochefort 8.

ALSO need to try delirium tremens if you can find it. nice mild belgium goodness.

La chouffe is pretty darn good.

"La mort subite" has pretty good guezes, lambics which are pretty palatable by anyone and the wife will definitely like them. Much better than Lindemans!
 
Barc said:
And yes, Splenda uses maltodextrin so putting that into a lambic at bottling would likely result in bottle-bombs pretty quick! Now if you could get your hands on pure sucralose...
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You can. http://www.sweetzfree.com/ for instance. It's super-concentrated (1 drop is like 1 1/2 Tablespoons of sugar or so).

I had Lindeman's Faro and Cuvee Rene while I was in Belgium. Much different animals than their sweetened line. I appreciated the fact that they try to play both sides of the fence (traditional and not) to appeal to a much broader market. Make what sells. I had a couple of Cantillion's basically straight out of the tap in the brewery and I've had Hanssen's many times (VERY good for culturing, btw) here in the States. Drie Fountaine is a little harder to find here but I had it while in Belgium this last time. Very good examples. Boon also makes a line of non-sweetened sours, as well.
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All of 3 that I mentioned show up in the store near my house from time to time, but none of them that often. Hanssen's also shows up at Whole Foods sporadically.
 
SumnerH said:
You can. http://www.sweetzfree.com/ for instance. It's super-concentrated (1 drop is like 1 1/2 Tablespoons of sugar or so).

All of 3 that I mentioned show up in the store near my house from time to time, but none of them that often. Hanssen's also shows up at Whole Foods sporadically.
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Interesting! I'll look into that. :) Thanks!

Yes, I have seen those at a few speciality shops here in the States. Expensive when compared to "regular" beer, though.
 
This has definitely been a very informational thread! You guys would have been proud of me wandering the beer store the other day with my smartphone, consulting this thread so I could find the beers in store. Looks like another trip to the greenville beer exchange is in order to further my tour:mug:
 
If you're headed there, a decent beer, imo, is Witkap Pater Singel / Stimulo. It is more light, fruity, and citrusy than most Belgian pale ales I've had. I've not seen it many other places here.

On a side note, I've stopped there at Beer Exchange once and they had an OK selection. Nothing over the top but they have much more than most any grocery / package store. If you're really looking for a better selection, you're probably going to have to drive a while.
 
And if you're going to drive a while from where you are, Asheville, NC is your nearest great Belgian bar destination. Book a room in a hotel near the Thirsty Monk. Peruse the bottle list and draught list at http://www.monkpub.com/ before you go. Bring a friend, split some bottles, and figure out what you do and don't like.

Either that or continue north to Max's in Fell's Point, MD or Monk's Cafe in Philadelphia...or on to the holy grail of Belgian bars in the US, Ebenezer's in Lovell, ME ( http://www.ebenezerspub.net/Beer.html ). If you hit the latter on a quiet night you might get a tour of the beer cellar (it includes things going back at least to the 1920s). De Struisse brewery in Belgium actually brews a beer in honor of Ebenezer's.
 
Barc, I will add that to the shopping list. We may be talking about a different beer exchange, this place just opened up last week and is a extension of the charleston beer exchange. They had a really impressive selection and really knowledgeable staff.

SummerH, We are in Asheville frequently. I've seen the monk, I will definitely visit next time I am there.
 
JonClayton said:
Barc, I will add that to the shopping list. We may be talking about a different beer exchange, this place just opened up last week and is a extension of the charleston beer exchange. They had a really impressive selection and really knowledgeable staff.
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OK, that isn't the one then. I must be thinking of somewhere else. It has been about 6 months since I was through there on 85. Maybe it was Total Wine & More or something? Or maybe I'm thinking of Columbia?! :drunk: I coulda sworn I was at a Beer Exchange somewhere that direction, though...
 
Total Wine would be the one, it's right off 85. You nailed the description for total wine, better than the grocery store but nothing spectacular.

If you find yourself back down this way message me for directions to the exchange, you may like it. Speaking of 85, what is the brewery that you can see from 85 when heading northbound, somewhere north of Charlotte. I passed it on my way to to Virginia last year but it was 5 am so I didn't bother stopping :)
 
JonClayton said:
Speaking of 85, what is the brewery that you can see from 85 when heading northbound, somewhere north of Charlotte. I passed it on my way to to Virginia last year but it was 5 am so I didn't bother stopping :)
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About the only one I can think of on that route right off I-85 is Red Oak. It is between Greensboro and Burlington, closer to Burlington. Is that the one?
 
Must have been the one, I just remember being able to see the large fermentation tanks from the highway. From time to time I have to travel up to the research triangle, will check it out next time I am in that area.
 
GuldTuborg said:
Speaking of Belgian style beers that won't break the bank, most of Ommegang's brews are very good and definitely affordable. A 750ml bottle of Hennepin for $6 or less is a steal!
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I live about an hour from Ommegang and my son goes to school 20 mnutes from there. Guess what we visit a lot? :mug:
 

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