My insane 25 Gal, 100 Percent Hard Plumbed Tri-Clover, Automated Tippy Build

[BigDaddyBeard]

Be awesome if you could get a silhouette cutout done of a hop. You close to any machine shops?

 

[kickflip_mj]

No but I bet I could do it with a dremel! Such a sweet idea!!! Looks like a project for tonight

 

[BigDaddyBeard]

Nice.... Can't wait to see how it turns out.

 

[kickflip_mj]

Haha you had to put the pressure on!

 

[Bensiff]

I could always polish it and shoot it with a high temp clear?

Good god man, don't do it. Mild steel is horribly uneven. Concaved in the center and plenty of unevenness on the surface. Getting it completely flat and polished to the point it would look good would take forever, not to mention the amount of consumables to get it to that point. If you did take the time to get it there you would also have to find a high temp clear coat that didn't brown or yellow from the heat. I'm hitting parts of my stand with 220 grit right now and I would still go higher if I wanted to clear coat. It's been so much work I decided tht I'm only going to 220 on the show sides, the under sides and back sides of the tubing will only get 120 or 150 at best.

 

[kickflip_mj]

Good god man, don't do it. Mild steel is horribly uneven. Concaved in the center and plenty of unevenness on the surface. Getting it completely flat and polished to the point it would look good would take forever, not to mention the amount of consumables to get it to that point. If you did take the time to get it there you would also have to find a high temp clear coat that didn't brown or yellow from the heat. I'm hitting parts of my stand with 220 grit right now and I would still go higher if I wanted to clear coat. It's been so much work I decided tht I'm only going to 220 on the show sides, the under sides and back sides of the tubing will only get 120 or 150 at best.

I am losing my mind! I spent this whole night cleaning the stand with a stripping wheel! I'm going crazy! It's taking forever and my arms are exhausted

 

[Bensiff]

I am losing my mind! I spent this whole night cleaning the stand with a stripping wheel! I'm going crazy! It's taking forever and my arms are exhausted

I hear your pain. It took forever to strip my stand with 60 grit flap disks and I can't think of anything more efficient. If you want a polished stand, every time you step up grit you will find imperfections that you will need to rework with a lower grit (or wear down a high grit disk) and I could only imagine the difficulty of getting the angles to look good.

I have done everything with 60 flaps and about half done with 80 disks. On my top surface I have gone 150 and 220 just to see. 220 is starting to look good enough for paint but far from acceptable if I were going to clear coat. At least sanding can be done during my newborns nap times. Coating with automotive paint will take about 6-8 hours so will need to get my wife to agree to give up a weekend day to be on baby duty.

 

[Bensiff]

I am losing my mind! I spent this whole night cleaning the stand with a stripping wheel! I'm going crazy! It's taking forever and my arms are exhausted

Oh yeah, no need to eat iron for a few months. You will have breathed in plenty .

 

[kickflip_mj]

Oh yeah, no need to eat iron for a few months. You will have breathed in plenty .

Haha so true, I wear a mask and it's still rough. I have no idea how people do this for a living. Lol

 

[aggies08brewer]

Fellas, it's probably too late now, but my two cents for painting steel are as follows:

Use 36 grit to strip the mill scale off of the steel. If this isn't working too well, try some muriatic acid. Read up on the safety precautions before you go this route.

Hit it with 80 grit next. You can use hi build epoxy primer right over the 80 grit. Since you guys are doing a great job and looking for a nice finish, use some $15 evercoat glazing putty to fill in the scratch marks.

Sand with 220, reprime, finish off with 320. Paint it up and enjoy.

Your comment about how people do this for a living - they just know it's a losing game to sand on metal. The modern fillers are very adaptable and can work for your application if applied properly.

Best of luck - don't take it as criticism, your work is great so far, I just don't want you to have to work so hard!

 

[BigDaddyBeard]

You could also try POR 15 products that stuff is bullet proof, practically indistructable.

 

[kickflip_mj]

Fellas, it's probably too late now, but my two cents for painting steel are as follows:

Use 36 grit to strip the mill scale off of the steel. If this isn't working too well, try some muriatic acid. Read up on the safety precautions before you go this route.

Hit it with 80 grit next. You can use hi build epoxy primer right over the 80 grit. Since you guys are doing a great job and looking for a nice finish, use some $15 evercoat glazing putty to fill in the scratch marks.

Sand with 220, reprime, finish off with 320. Paint it up and enjoy.

Your comment about how people do this for a living - they just know it's a losing game to sand on metal. The modern fillers are very adaptable and can work for your application if applied properly.

Best of luck - don't take it as criticism, your work is great so far, I just don't want you to have to work so hard!

This is a great write up! Thank you, you cant find this information in these forums. The millscale is coming off no problem with these stripping pads I got at HD and some acetone.

Would you do the 80 grit by hand or with a wheel? Also how does that Evercoat work with the heat? I have used ever coat on harley tins in the past.

On a side note, we should create a sticky with this kind of information, things that work and do not.

 

[Bensiff]

Fellas, it's probably too late now, but my two cents for painting steel are as follows:

Use 36 grit to strip the mill scale off of the steel. If this isn't working too well, try some muriatic acid. Read up on the safety precautions before you go this route.

Hit it with 80 grit next. You can use hi build epoxy primer right over the 80 grit. Since you guys are doing a great job and looking for a nice finish, use some $15 evercoat glazing putty to fill in the scratch marks.

Sand with 220, reprime, finish off with 320. Paint it up and enjoy.

Your comment about how people do this for a living - they just know it's a losing game to sand on metal. The modern fillers are very adaptable and can work for your application if applied properly.

Best of luck - don't take it as criticism, your work is great so far, I just don't want you to have to work so hard!

I've been using the 60 grit flaps, because that is what they had at HF and then moving up. My issue is that the only high build rattle can I know of is the Eastwood stuff and I don't know it's compatibility with the paint I have and I don't want to shoot an epoxy primer through my paint gun. I suppose I could always get the super cheap HF gun for primer.

 

[aggies08brewer]

This is a great write up! Thank you, you cant find this information in these forums. The millscale is coming off no problem with these stripping pads I got at HD and some acetone.

Would you do the 80 grit by hand or with a wheel? Also how does that Evercoat work with the heat? I have used ever coat on harley tins in the past.

On a side note, we should create a sticky with this kind of information, things that work and do not.

Thanks, I agree, this type of info is often hard to find - but I'm always happy to help.

So, I tried to read back a few pages to help myself understand your setup so I could answer your questions more effectively. If I've misinterpreted something, let me know, and I'll adjust my approach.

First off, back to your welding woes. You mentioned that you think your pinhole problems are a function of the gaps in the metal. This isn't entirely true. Another member suggested a problem with the shielding gas, which is more plausible but not the entire solution. My suggestion is that your weld area is contaminated. The contaminants burn and "off-gas" during the weld and bubble up through your weld puddle. Voila - pin holes. This can be corrected by thoroughly cleaning the weld area, down to removing the mill scale and wiping with acetone or other suitable solvent. My process is to usually scuff with a 60-grit sanding pad on the grinder, maybe wipe a few times with a red scotch brite pad, and then wipe with a clean rag (not paper towel because of the paper bits left behind) soaked in a flashing solvent. With proper shielding gas pressure your pinhole woes will be long gone.

Secondly, a comment was made about direct firing and the heat affecting the isocyanates in your chosen paint. Yes, auto paint has it. Yes you can get paint without it. I don't anticipate them being re-activated when the paint is heated and wafting into your beer. My understanding is that the isocyanates flash off in the hardener when the paint is sprayed. Ask your paint rep for the facts here as I could very well be wrong and this is something that should not be played with - I'd love to be wrong in fact. This leads me to the glazing putty. It has a auto-ignite temp in the ~900F range. Not fulling knowing your setup, I'm sure with some well placed heat shielding combined with the paint properties (ceramic heat paint) you won't have issues with it bubbling.

Onto prep - given the tool base that you seem to have and it being flat surfaces - there is no way and now how that I would sand this by hand. Put some 80 grit on your DA sander or even a vibratory square sander for wood working and stop when you see the lighter color come through. Keep your sander flat, stay off the edges (do those by hand) and it will look great. Take a contrasting color spray can (black is fine) and lightly mist the entire thing. This is called a guide, or blocking, coat. Sand again, maybe by hand this time since it will be easier, until the guide coat is gone. The contrasting color will help you identify low spots.

Use the glaze in any scratches, and resand with 320. The glaze is only designed to fill pinholes and very thin scratches (the kind left by 36-80 grit paper).

You can spray over the glaze with generally no issues, but on cars I'd recommend using a seal coat - it helps with bleed through issues caused by incompatible products. Using ceramic header paint, I don't see this as being needed.

Use the paint manufacturer's recommended steps to finish out the rest. You'll have great results! PS, don't use galvanized sheet as your heat shield - stick with stainless like all of the rest of your great build!

 

[aggies08brewer]

I've been using the 60 grit flaps, because that is what they had at HF and then moving up. My issue is that the only high build rattle can I know of is the Eastwood stuff and I don't know it's compatibility with the paint I have and I don't want to shoot an epoxy primer through my paint gun. I suppose I could always get the super cheap HF gun for primer.

Sorry I missed this in my last book of a post, but Rustoleum makes a very stable high build primer available at Home Depot and Lowes, etc.

It's proven to be very stable, and I understand they even sell specific mixtures to specific parts of the country to help with paint dry times (think flash temps) and hardeners. Pretty slick.

 

[Bensiff]

Secondly, a comment was made about direct firing and the heat affecting the isocyanates in your chosen paint. Yes, auto paint has it. Yes you can get paint without it. I don't anticipate them being re-activated when the paint is heated and wafting into your beer. My understanding is that the isocyanates flash off in the hardener when the paint is sprayed. Ask your paint rep for the facts here as I could very well be wrong and this is something that should not be played with - I'd love to be wrong in fact. This leads me to the glazing putty. It has a auto-ignite temp in the ~900F range. Not fulling knowing your setup, I'm sure with some well placed heat shielding combined with the paint properties (ceramic heat paint) you won't have issues with it bubbling.

Isocyanates are not added to paint as a flashing agent, however some are released into the air when painting. They are a key part of the chemical bonding that occurs to get the unique properties of modern automotive paint. When cured they are chemically bonded and are stable. However, according to PPG, sufficient heat, certainly less than a propane burner, unlocks the bonding and allows the isocyanates among other noxious fumes to go airborne. Given the significant differences between even automotive paints, checking the product MSDS would be necessary to verify.

I'm interested in the putty you spoke of. Could that be used followed by a standard etching primer instead of doing a high build primer?

 

[BigDaddyBeard]

POR 15 actually works the opposite of most paint as wee know it. It actually draws moisture into the paint creating a porous free surface, never have to worry about rust. Not sure but I do think they make a high temp paint.

 

[aggies08brewer]

Isocyanates are not added to paint as a flashing agent, however some are released into the air when painting....

I'm interested in the putty you spoke of. Could that be used followed by a standard etching primer instead of doing a high build primer?

Sorry, I meant to mean they flash off (necessitating the PPE) but are also an ingredient in the hardener. Good info that they can be reactivated from heat exposure. I would really love to see some tests on this, if there are any at all. After all, auto paint can hit around 120F in the sun, wonder if it reacts then??

I believe you would normally use the etching primer first - sand with a heavy grit, say 80, then wipe a thin coat to fill the sanding scratches. Go to your 220 then 320. Seal on top and paint. What it's doing is saving you a lot of sanding and another priming. I'm sure there are great tutorials online and I know hotrod magazine recently released on online series about painting techniques.

If you are unfamiliar, it needs to be the consistency of pancake batter (runny batter at that) when mixed. It's not a product designed to be built up. Scratches and pinholes! Good luck!

 

[Bensiff]

Sorry, I meant to mean they flash off (necessitating the PPE) but are also an ingredient in the hardener. Good info that they can be reactivated from heat exposure. I would really love to see some tests on this, if there are any at all. After all, auto paint can hit around 120F in the sun, wonder if it reacts then??

I believe you would normally use the etching primer first - sand with a heavy grit, say 80, then wipe a thin coat to fill the sanding scratches. Go to your 220 then 320. Seal on top and paint. What it's doing is saving you a lot of sanding and another priming. I'm sure there are great tutorials online and I know hotrod magazine recently released on online series about painting techniques.

If you are unfamiliar, it needs to be the consistency of pancake batter (runny batter at that) when mixed. It's not a product designed to be built up. Scratches and pinholes! Good luck!

I dont know of tests but that info is straight from PPG. They say it is high heat like would be generated from cutting torches, welders, or friction cutters. Normal temps that the paint would be exposed to such as in the sun is fine.

I would think if I sanded etching primer with 80 grit I would take most of it off. My thought was to go over bare metal that is already sanded to 80 grit with the putty then top over that with the primer. The primer I used on my control box didn't need a sealer. I suppose the best thing would be to talk to the folks at a paint store because it would really suck to blow a paint job with an issue of incompatibility.

To keep to the OP build, you have the same issue with getting a solid base down so the top coat doesn't show imperfections. I'd highly recommend going to an auto paint store and get professional advice and help with products. I have a Wesco nearby and they are great. Tell them exactly what you are doing and they will let you know what can be done. Just don't go to autozone or some place like that and expect to get what you need for a quality job. On the flop side don't expect to be able to get a quality paint job for cheap. I would recommend though, that if you end up needing a HVLP gun grab one from HF if you don't want to spend a lot for a higher end gun. My HF professional guns have done a nice job for me.

 

[DoctorMemory]

My suggestion is that your weld area is contaminated. The contaminants burn and "off-gas" during the weld and bubble up through your weld puddle. Voila - pin holes. This can be corrected by thoroughly cleaning the weld area, down to removing the mill scale and wiping with acetone or other suitable solvent. My process is to usually scuff with a 60-grit sanding pad on the grinder, maybe wipe a few times with a red scotch brite pad, and then wipe with a clean rag (not paper towel because of the paper bits left behind) soaked in a flashing solvent. With proper shielding gas pressure your pinhole woes will be long gone.

WARNING: If you do this, do NOT use brake cleaner! I used to work with a guy who was a welder in the township maintenance shop. Apparently their standard practice before welding anything there was to hit it with a good shot of carburetor cleaner and a bit of brushing, then burn everything off. One day they were out of carb cleaner and one of the guys there used brake cleaner and wound up putting himself and the other guy in the shop in the hospital. Apparently brake cleaner turns into seriously nasty stuff when heated.

OK, that's my one-and-only "fun fact" about welding. Carry on!

 

[n240sxguy]

I would assume it was chlorinated brake cleaner. Chlorine is nasty stuff. I work with hundreds of thousands of pounds of it at work. Bad juju if you let the green devil out!

 

[Ryush806]

I would assume it was chlorinated brake cleaner. Chlorine is nasty stuff. I work with hundreds of thousands of pounds of it at work. Bad juju if you let the green devil out!

Yea...very bad. I used to work in a pulp mill / bleach plant and I always got a little spooked when I saw a decent sized green cloud floating about.

 

[n240sxguy]

Yea...very bad. I used to work in a pulp mill / bleach plant and I always got a little spooked when I saw a decent sized green cloud floating about.

I bet y'all used a bunch of caustic. We ship out tons of that to paper mills. Imagine that green cloud in liquid form.

 

[Bensiff]

Yeah things like carb cleaner or brake cleaner are designed for a specific purpose which isn't paint prep. Generally some soap and water goes a long ways (not on bare metal of course) and then use a solvent to wipe things down until the rag wipes cleanly. Some folks will use denatured alcohol as another step.

 

[kickflip_mj]

You guys really covered all the bases! All of this information should be really helpful when I muster up some courage tomorrow and finish sanding the bit%$ and prime it.

Do you think I would be OK with paint that's rated to 1200 deg when I have a stainless heat shield around the burners?

 

[Bensiff]

You guys really covered all the bases! All of this information should be really helpful when I muster up some courage tomorrow and finish sanding the bit%$ and prime it.

Do you think I would be OK with paint that's rated to 1200 deg when I have a stainless heat shield around the burners?

I can't tell you if that heat shield is enough to protect the paint. Perhaps fire it up and use a laser temp measure to see. Otherwise good luck, glad to hear you are close to being done. My job is going to crap and I will be a transferred as a result, my wife just go a new job 60 miles away, and we have a newborn so instead of getting my brewstand finished I'm focusing on being a dad and beginning the search fora new home and new job. Probably about time I coat my stand with some light oil so all that exposed steel doesn't begin to rust before I can get to paint.

 

[kickflip_mj]

So after I smashed my toe with the stand I hobbled around and got it painted! Just to let you know the KBS coating is a really nice paint

 

[Bensiff]

So after I smashed my toe with the stand I hobbled around and got it painted! Just to let you know the KBS coating is a really nice paint

Looks nice from a distance. Hope all your prep work paid off with a nice smooth paint job that you are happy with.

 

[kickflip_mj]

It actually looks amazing! Tons of wet sanding, primer and top coats. I used the glazing but ended up chipping it out because no matter what I did it was visible under the paint. The lbs paint I used dried to a hard coating without any tacky residue like some paints leave.

 

[Bensiff]

It actually looks amazing! Tons of wet sanding, primer and top coats. I used the glazing but ended up chipping it out because no matter what I did it was visible under the paint. The lbs paint I used dried to a hard coating without any tacky residue like some paints leave.

Good deal. How long until you think you will get to brew your first batch?

I just went down and picked up the rest of my supplies yesterday. Going with UPOL acid etch followed with their high build primer.

 

[kickflip_mj]

Sadly it's going to be a month or two, I just have to purchase all the electronics and the gas valve set up. So it really adds up.

Let me know if you need any tri clovers 1, 1 1/2, 2, and I have 8 x 1/2 tri clamps. I'll sell them for super cheap. I don't really need all of them

 

[marcb]

Sadly it's going to be a month or two, I just have to purchase all the electronics and the gas valve set up. So it really adds up.

Let me know if you need any tri clovers 1, 1 1/2, 2, and I have 8 x 1/2 tri clamps. I'll sell them for super cheap. I don't really need all of them

Hey,

I have the honeywells, burners and intermittent pilots that I bought for my setup before going all electric. Let me know if you are interested and I can shoot you a parts list, all brand new never used

 

[Bensiff]

Sadly it's going to be a month or two, I just have to purchase all the electronics and the gas valve set up. So it really adds up.

Let me know if you need any tri clovers 1, 1 1/2, 2, and I have 8 x 1/2 tri clamps. I'll sell them for super cheap. I don't really need all of them

Ill let you know if I need anything but something tells me I'm going to end up with too many TC fittings as well.

 

[kickflip_mj]

That's the worst part about builds like this, you order a ton of parts so you don't run out, but you always have way to many or not enough

 

[kickflip_mj]

I'm excited, tomorrow I am going to start putting it back together and see how shinny she looks!

 

[Bensiff]

That's the worst part about builds like this, you order a ton of parts so you don't run out, but you always have way to many or not enough

Yup, I have parts from a decade of brewing, often times I plan on doing something and then scrap the idea after I have already bought a few parts. Once I have my system up and running I'm planning on having a big brew house garage sale post over in the sale section. Time to clear out the old kettles, burners, and countless bits and pieces I overbought or no longer need and hopefully make the cost of my current build feel a little better.

 

[Bensiff]

I'm excited, tomorrow I am going to start putting it back together and see how shinny she looks!

Cool, post pics.

I finished sanding everything to 80 grit yesterday. Beginning to do a final test fit of all the hardware to make sure I didn't forget to drill any holes and that everything lines up...then I will start priming. If I ever figure out how to post pictures I will start a build thread so you can see what I have been working on while you are building your system.

 

[kickflip_mj]

Cool, post pics.

I finished sanding everything to 80 grit yesterday. Beginning to do a final test fit of all the hardware to make sure I didn't forget to drill any holes and that everything lines up...then I will start priming. If I ever figure out how to post pictures I will start a build thread so you can see what I have been working on while you are building your system.

sounds like a pain in the ass, I forgot to drill a few things but nothing like a little blue tape and a sharp but cant handle! I cant wait to see the build

 

[evanmars]

I understand. But what I do and what I recommend, for people that I do not know, are not always the same thing.

Preach it. Still a bit numb around the scar.

 

[kickflip_mj]

Preach it. Still a bit numb around the scar.

wow how did you do that? There are so many reason why I dislike people talking to me when im building. Its when your focus is somewhere else when you get hurt.