My Ciders all have initial strange taste

[Thiderboy]

I have brewed about 10 ciders now. 9 of the 10 brewed have been pretty good, but they all have some slightly weird initial bite(taste). I don't want to say its a funk taste, but it isn't a super clean or crisp taste. After the first glass you don't notice it as much. And no matter what yeast I use, they all seem to have it. Anyone have any ideas?

Usual Recipe
I use Costco Organic Apple Juice or Motts.
1-3 Cans concentrate apple or apple raspberry juice.
1-4 Cups White or Brown Sugar
Yeast Nutrient
Tried everything from wine yeast to champagne yeast.
(Usually melt sugar in juice, wait for temp to drop and pitch yeast.)
Ferment 7-15 days, then cold crash 1 -2 times for 2 weeks or more.
Generally temps don't get higher than 75 on fermenting.

 

[BargainFittings]

Any water added at all?

 

[Thiderboy]

I didn't add any water.

 

[WayFrae]

How warm are you getting the juice when you

melt sugar in juice

?

 

[Thiderboy]

How warm are you getting the juice when you ?

I usually heat up a 4 cups of juice in the microwave for 2-3 minutes so its quite hot, not quite boiling when I add the sugar. ( I don't add the yeast until its just luke warm )

 

[dlester]

I would guess this is a yeast issue. Healthy yeast is key to a crisp clean taste. Yeast will give off funky flavors if stressed in any way. Be sure to have the correct amount of yeast, aerate with 02 and give them nutrients.


Cheers

 

[Thiderboy]

I brew 5 gallons of cider at a time, and use 1 package of S-04 or whatever yeast. How do I aerate with 02?

 

[dlester]

There are several ways. First, you can shake it back and forth for a minute, but that gets you about 8 PPM of 02 with an ideal of 12 PPM (parts per million). It's a good start if you don't have equipment. You can use an air pump from a pet store for fish tanks, along with an air stone, which will get you an ideal amount of O2 of around 12 PPM. However, you need an inline filter so you don't pump bacteria into the juice. One other method, which is what I use: The homebrew shops carry a metal version of an air stone. You can connect that to an O2 bottle from your local hardware store (used for soldering/welding). That works great, but because it's pure O2, I would keep the time in the juice down to a minute to a minute and a half.

PS. Along with yeast health, I failed to mention temperature during fermentation. Yeast has an ideal temp range, which you can look up on the manufacturers website. If the temp is too low, they hibernate. If the temp is too high, they stress and give off flavors.

Good luck, a great Cider is a must have in your beer line-up in my opinion.

 

[MindenMan]

I learned the hard way when it came to making hard cider, I didn't know to control my fermentation temperatures, and had a bunch of nail polish smelling cider. It took a long time to clear that nasty smell before it was drinkable.

 

[bernardsmith]

What is your starting gravity? What is the gravity when you drink the cider? Are you drinking this about one month after pitching the yeast? The cider may be green as grass. Moreover, the best cider is fermented at low temperatures. 75 degrees sounds incredibly high for cider. Traditionally, if apples ripen in the fall then cider was made in the winter... Last point, you seem to be using highly filtered apple juice rather than unfiltered juice and the juice you are using may not be sufficiently tart. Have you checked the pH or the TA? You may want/need to add some acidity (after the fermentation is over). That might give it a cleaner taste.

 

[WVMJ]

You have high expectations for Costco juice. Maybe search around this coming fall for some real cider to start with, the body, tannins and flavors will be so much better. WVMJ

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Sounds like 2 things to me.
1: temperature control during fermentation. You mentioned you were using S-04, that's an ale yeast & 75* ambient temp is way too high, you'll get some off flavours from that batch. Often the actual must temp can be as much as 10* higher that the ambient room temp, the yeast actually generate a little heat during fermentation. You really need to find a way to keep those temps closer to 60*F

2: You may be drinking your cider while it's still too young (green). Let that cider age for 6 months or so & see if it tastes any better, it certainly will after a full year of aging. I (and many others) have noticed that apfelwein made with regular juice has a sort of "hoochie" flavour to it for the 1st 6 months to a year.
Try a graff, that recipe was designed specifically to be drinkable & tastier sooner, and it's a versatile & forgiving recipe.

You might also add a dose of yeast nutrient to the must, healthy yeast make good cider. That's my 2 cents worth.
Regards, GF.

 

[podz]

If you can ferment in the 60s, do it. For me, I just turn the heat off in my sauna and open the window (we've had an exceptionally cool summer here this year).

I always start drinking my cider within 2 days after it's finished (I cold crash it). It usually tastes very good and not hoochie at all, but one time it was hoochie. The reason for that was because I had added too much nutrient on accident. I don't weigh mine out, but I know that the amount I usually use is on the short side of 50 grams. Might be even closer to 40... I have a calibrated eyeball

 

[Thiderboy]

Sounds like I need to make sure the Temps stay low, camden tablets to be safe, and need some Malic acid in there. If using store purchased apple juice, how much malic acid should be placed in 5 gallons of juice?

 

[podz]

If using store purchased apple juice, how much malic acid should be placed in 5 gallons of juice?

I don't use campden or malic acid and my cider turns out just great. Maybe we just have exceptional AJ in Lidl (Dizzy brand).