Cider no sugar gravity 1

[Ciderlincs]

I didn’t get a measure until today as I just got my hydrometer, I have cooking apples pressed for juice and added champagne yeast to one and cider yeast to the next bucket , airlocked no sugar as I am intolerant to sugar and online said it is fine , I drink a cider that uses cooking apples and no additional sugar added in fermentation called xo and Henley’s

Both bubbles furiously for a week then stopped dead n went clear , their reading is 1.00

I have some eating apples to press as I heard there sugar can help if I add them to the mix with yeast ,

I don’t know if it’s done after 1 week lol but tastes both like wine ?

 

[Rish]

Welcome to HBT! It could be done in a week. Check the sg again in a couple of days. If it's still at 1.000 it's done. If it's lower, check it every couple of days until you get 2 readings that are the same. Then let it set until its clear if you want, otherwise, drink up!

 

[Chalkyt]

Yep, as above it could be done in a week or so, if you have used an aggressive champagne yeast. These yeasts can ferment quite quickly, especially if the fermenting temperature is high in their range (for example, EC1118 "champagne yeast" fermentation range is 50F - 86F).

Cooking apples (such as Granny Smith, Bramley's Seedling etc) will typically have a high level of acid compared with eating apples. It is the acid that gives cider its "bite" after all the sugar is gone, so your cider might be a bit high in acid and so be dry and tart.

I have both Granny Smith and Red Delicious among my trees and sometimes make a 60% Red Delicious/40% Granny Smith Cider. This blend combines the tartness (9 g/L acid) of the GS with the sweetness of the RD (3 g/L acid) into a quite nice "quaffing" cider with around 5 - 6 g/L of acid. This acid level, is often regarded as the "sweet spot", so it may be worth adding the eating apple juice to your cider as it should reduce the overall acid. The extra sugar will ferment out and the eating apples may add some different flavour compounds.

It is likely that there is plenty of active yeast and nutrients still in your cider (champagne yeasts typically have a "low" nutrient demand). As most apples have a similar sugar level, just adding the eating apple juice should provide enough sugar for the fermentation to start up again and ferment down to SG 1.000 (i.e. no sugar left).

Good luck, and have fun!

 

[DBhomebrew]

Cider can go as low as .990

Alcohol being less dense than water, etc.

 

[Chalkyt]

That is a good point. If you need absolutely no sugar, a consistent low gravity reading is no guarantee that there isn't any sugar left. Some ciders are known to finish above SG 1.000. This can mean that all the sugar has been converted to alcohol and CO2, but can also mean that the yeast has "stuck" because it has run out of nutrients and there is a little bit of sugar left (typically 1 - 5 grams per litre). This is unlikely but I have found it to be so in a few cases, especially with "high nutrient dependent" yeasts that don't finish the last little bit. Properly managed it is a way of producing a slightly sweet cider.

As well as sugar which accounts for about 80% of the density of the juice, there are other non-fermentable elements like acids, tannins, flavour compounds etc that have a small effect on the juice density and hence SG. Unfortunately, it isn't practical to assess this effect because they can be more, or less dense than sugar. Also as above, alcohol is less dense than water and so the final mixture can have a SG of less than 1.000.

You might find it worthwhile getting a "Final Gravity" or "Finishing" hydrometer. These are a little more expensive (and more fragile... I have broken a couple!) than a regular hydrometer, but have big graduations, cover a narrow range from 0.980 to 1.020 and are great for monitoring the very end of fermentation.

As before, have fun!

 

[Ciderlincs]

That is a good point. If you need absolutely no sugar, a consistent low gravity reading is no guarantee that there isn't any sugar left. Some ciders are known to finish above SG 1.000. This can mean that all the sugar has been converted to alcohol and CO2, but can also mean that the yeast has "stuck" because it has run out of nutrients and there is a little bit of sugar left (typically 1 - 5 grams per litre). This is unlikely but I have found it to be so in a few cases, especially with "high nutrient dependent" yeasts that don't finish the last little bit. Properly managed it is a way of producing a slightly sweet cider.

As well as sugar which accounts for about 80% of the density of the juice, there are other non-fermentable elements like acids, tannins, flavour compounds etc that have a small effect on the juice density and hence SG. Unfortunately, it isn't practical to assess this effect because they can be more, or less dense than sugar. Also as above, alcohol is less dense than water and so the final mixture can have a SG of less than 1.000.

You might find it worthwhile getting a "Final Gravity" or "Finishing" hydrometer. These are a little more expensive (and more fragile... I have broken a couple!) than a regular hydrometer, but have big graduations, cover a narrow range from 0.980 to 1.020 and are great for monitoring the very end of fermentation.

As before, have fun!

Thankyou somuch that makes somuch sense , yeah fruit sugars are ok for me just the table sugars refined are bad , so I don’t mind a little being left behind from the fruit that’s no issue
I’ve sat my apples for a few days to sweeten then I will mash em up n press em later there so sweet so so sweet compared to my cookers even the little ones lol unripe is still sweet it’s so sweet
I will add them and take a reading tonight will I need to add more yeast based on the liquid added I’ve been using 2g yeast to 5litre as instructed I feel I should keeep the ratio up and add yeast before adding to my cider buckets right ?

Also molasses and maple are sugars I can use in smaller doses if needed

How come it tastes more like a wine atm ? Is that cause flavours haven’t matured in a week ? Or has a wine gone past cider ?

The champagne yeast is fizzy compared to the cider yeast quite cool , no risk in drinking early like bacteria etc is there ? I could just see if I get drunk lol , 1 can of cider makes me half drunk I’m a light weight lol

 

[DBhomebrew]

I'm assuming by tasting like wine you are referring to an alcohol warmth and flavor.

It's very dry right now and green. Commercial ciders with which you are familiar are probably off-dry or semi-sweet. Likely stabilized then backsweetened to be a little sweet and that also brings back some apple flavor. Time will also help to smooth the ethanol into the background.

Cider is wine. Just a rather low-ABV wine unless the juice is fortified with extra sugar.

Is fizzy not because of the champagne yeast. Any yeast's ferment would be fizzy right now. Fermentation turns sugars into ethanol and CO2. That CO2 is in solution until it has time to fully off-gas. Even then, some remains depending on temperature.

No risk, it's just not at its best yet. Let it fully finish. It'll get still and clear. The yeast will continue to work in cleaning up after itself. The ethanol will smooth out. It will get more delicious.

 

[Ciderlincs]

I'm assuming by tasting like wine you are referring to an alcohol warmth and flavor.

It's very dry right now and green. Commercial ciders with which you are familiar are probably off-dry or semi-sweet. Likely stabilized then backsweetened to be a little sweet and that also brings back some apple flavor. Time will also help to smooth the ethanol into the background.

Cider is wine. Just a rather low-ABV wine unless the juice is fortified with extra sugar.

Is fizzy not because of the champagne yeast. Any yeast's ferment would be fizzy right now. Fermentation turns sugars into ethanol and CO2. That CO2 is in solution until it has time to fully off-gas. Even then, some remains depending on temperature.

No risk, it's just not at its best yet. Let it fully finish. It'll get still and clear. The yeast will continue to work in cleaning up after itself. The ethanol will smooth out. It will get more delicious.

Yeah it tastes like a dry white wine if ya get me
They cider I use at shop is Sxollie Xider - Modern Craft Cider | UK they say they use granny’s with no added sugar at all it’s one outa 60 I found in the shop clear of sugar like you say most sweeten them

This isn’t far off it just sharply dry like you licked a lemon ..high acid content I guess

 

[DBhomebrew]

That just sounds like it's freshly done fermenting. It'll likely improve.

FYI. I don't know anything about your intolerance to table sugar, but it might not be a problem with fermented beverages. The sucrose gets split into glucose and fructose. Those get turned into CO2 and ethanol. Sucrose gets fully fermented, unlike the larger molecules derived from malt in beer wort.

 

[Ciderlincs]

That just sounds like it's freshly done fermenting. It'll likely improve.

FYI. I don't know anything about your intolerance to table sugar, but it might not be a problem with fermented beverages. The sucrose gets split into glucose and fructose. Those get turned into CO2 and ethanol. Sucrose gets fully fermented, unlike the larger molecules derived from malt in beer wort.

Asking as If I can garentee total conversion of sugar I am fine but refined u useable sugars even white flours spike my sugars bad , if I have a drink of a cider that has been sugar added my skin goes red and I breakout in hives n scales for weeks , though not a nice way to test I do find out easily I’d just rather know scientifically lol so I try to avoid it everywhere possible , mollasses honey and maple are fine due to the molecule size they don’t effect me and sue to their less refined nature I tend to use xylitol in coffee and anything sweet but that doesn’t help fermentation much eh

I mean I use raw sugar in my kombucha as I let that turn vinigar almost then add fruit as I bottle it and they digest the sugars in the fruit and fizz up good also takes the vinigar taste away
I k ow when we sweetened them with sugar coated fruit from the dried section I got Bad reactions due to coating them in white sugar glazes pfft lol


So I just pressed my new pink lady apples n got 7litre which are showing on the hydro forgive me if I get this wrong it’s 1.43 the 1.000 park and then 4 and 3 past that I can’t workout where the decimal is meant to be but this juice is super sweet so I plan on adding yeast and topping up my current ciders and taking a read
Sound good? Or Shal I just make fresh batch ?

My hope is the sugar will reactivate them and sweeten it up and brew stronger using them sugars

 

[Rish]

Your sg is 1.043. You have plenty of yeast in your cider so you can just dump the new juice in and it'll ferment.

 

[Chalkyt]

As I indicated, most apples have a SG in the range 1.045 to 1.055 so your Pink Ladies at 1.043 seem about right. The sugar level varies quite a bit with growing conditions. I have seen TA (total acidity) quoted for Pink Ladies in the range 3 - 5 grams per litre which is sort of "lowish middle of the road". Without high levels of acid, the sugar will dominate and so they will taste somewhat sweet but further fermentation will get rid of the sugar.

So, you should expect the Pink Ladies to pull the overall acid or tartness in your cider down, making it taste "sweeter". The existing yeast will have built up into quite a colony and should quite happily continue fermenting the Pink Lady sugars without any addition.

Although it is early in your cider journey, it might be worthwhile getting a Total Acidity Kit. These are relatively cheap and easy to use to measure the acid level in your cider. Be aware that they are usually "calibrated" to give the results in Tartaric Acid which is the dominant acid in wine. To get the results for Malic Acid (the dominant acid in Cider) you need to multiply the results by 0.89.

Andrew Lea (author of Craft Cider Making) has a good article about measuring cider TA with such kits on his web site. It looks a bit complex, but with a kit it is quite straightforward. Finding the article involves... go to cider.org.uk, it should take you to Wittenham Hill Cider Portal. Click on "press to learn more", look down the list on the LHS to find the article on measuring TA.

The reason for suggesting a TA kit is that you can measure what your current cider TA is, find the TA of your Pink Ladies, then start blending them into your cider until you get to, a target of say 5g/L which is a "normal" level. Alternatively, just start adding the Pink Ladies until the tartness reduces.

Without actually knowing the acid levels, I guess you have 5 litres of finished cider with a TA of maybe 8g/L. Adding 7 litres of Pink Lady at maybe TA of 4g/L would give you 40g of acid from the cider plus 28g of acid from the PLs for 68g of acid in 12 litres or about 5.5g/L which should be just about right.

Sorry about the long-winded explanation, but I hope it helps.

Cheers!

 

[Ciderlincs]

As I indicated, most apples have a SG in the range 1.045 to 1.055 so your Pink Ladies at 1.043 seem about right. The sugar level varies quite a bit with growing conditions. I have seen TA (total acidity) quoted for Pink Ladies in the range 3 - 5 grams per litre which is sort of "lowish middle of the road". Without high levels of acid, the sugar will dominate and so they will taste somewhat sweet but further fermentation will get rid of the sugar.

So, you should expect the Pink Ladies to pull the overall acid or tartness in your cider down, making it taste "sweeter". The existing yeast will have built up into quite a colony and should quite happily continue fermenting the Pink Lady sugars without any addition.

Although it is early in your cider journey, it might be worthwhile getting a Total Acidity Kit. These are relatively cheap and easy to use to measure the acid level in your cider. Be aware that they are usually "calibrated" to give the results in Tartaric Acid which is the dominant acid in wine. To get the results for Malic Acid (the dominant acid in Cider) you need to multiply the results by 0.89.

Andrew Lea (author of Craft Cider Making) has a good article about measuring cider TA with such kits on his web site. It looks a bit complex, but with a kit it is quite straightforward. Finding the article involves... go to cider.org.uk, it should take you to Wittenham Hill Cider Portal. Click on "press to learn more", look down the list on the LHS to find the article on measuring TA.

The reason for suggesting a TA kit is that you can measure what your current cider TA is, find the TA of your Pink Ladies, then start blending them into your cider until you get to, a target of say 5g/L which is a "normal" level. Alternatively, just start adding the Pink Ladies until the tartness reduces.

Without actually knowing the acid levels, I guess you have 5 litres of finished cider with a TA of maybe 8g/L. Adding 7 litres of Pink Lady at maybe TA of 4g/L would give you 40g of acid from the cider plus 28g of acid from the PLs for 68g of acid in 12 litres or about 5.5g/L which should be just about right.

Sorry about the long-winded explanation, but I hope it helps.

Cheers!

Had a glass of it and well I am feeling more than a bottle from the shop
A bottle gets me where I like to be and I got there on a glass lol what does that mean ? What % is that !! A bloody nice one lol

 

[Chalkyt]

That is about what you would expect. Taking typical numbers (i.e. start with a litre of juice at SG 1.050 and ferment fully down to SG 1.000) you would convert about 100g of sugar into roughly 50g of alcohol and 50g of CO2.

50g of alcohol is about 5 standard drinks, so a 250ml glass would be 1.25 standard drinks. Two of those and you are "over the limit".

The rough formula for calculating potential alcohol is 130 x (OG - FG). i.e. 130 x (1.050 -1.000) = 6.5%. So, depending on how much sugar was fermented, especially if extra sugar was added at bottling time for carbonation, a typical 330ml or 12 oz bottle could contain 2 standard drinks!

Commercial cider, on the other hand is often only 4%-5% ABV. This can be for tax reasons or because of watered down juice concentrate, stopping fermentation above 1.000 to preserve sugar for sweetnessetc, etc.