my buddy's demon child

[snccoulter]

All my friends have the go ahead to fix my kids. If I do not see the issue and they do they end the issue right there. It is simple parents should handle their own kids but if it is not being dealt with someone has to. As long as they don't beat them so be it.

 

[Homercidal]

I hope you're right. My youngest is a girl, and while she's my little sweetheart, I don't know how I would handle her acting out.

My oldest was 9 the last time I spanked her. Me getting off the couch to put an end to her tantrum was maybe the scariest moment of her life. She's 16 now. It was really the only time I recall having to get after her physically.

I remember my friends came over with their kids. Time to clean up and my friend tells his kid to pick up their toys. I tell my youngest. I know she heard me but keeps playing with the friend's kid because he kept playing. I start counting backwards from 3 as I start getting up from the couch. She is jumping up to clean up and the friend's kid is suddenly freaking out. I guess he just wasn't used to the parent actually getting up to make their kid do what they were told.

My kids learned right away that if I know they heard me tell them to do something, they only get the one chance to do it. I have found that it saves a lot of time and frustration.

My little one doesn't even put up an argument when I ask her to clean up the dog poop in the back yard! :rockin:

 

[kjung]

There are too many comments to reply to here, so I'll just toss in my own .02.

The bottom line is, IMO, you shouldn't have to discipline or correct your friend's kids, ESPECIALLY when they're both right there. If they couldn't get anyone to watch the brat for them, then mom should have stayed home with the kid, unless there was a legitimate reason for her to be there. (Is she at least hot? ) If mom's going to get mad at you for doing something that she refused to do, that's her problem.

You haven't said anything about it, but I'm assuming that you don't have kids, therefore it should be their responsibility to bring something for the little brat to keep himself amused while you and Dad were busy.

FWIW, I would invite your friend over, ALONE, sit him down with a beer, and tell him something to the effect of, "Look, you're a great friend, and so is your wife. I love you guys and your son, but if you can't control him and teach him to respect other people's property, then I don't want him over here."

Even at 3 or 4 years old, he's old enough to learn that much.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Of course it is impossible to remember being 3 or 4, but rest assured, you were a demon too.

My son will be 3 next month, and even though he has been the most good natured and pleasant child up to recently, and despite our best parenting efforts, he is now entering the demon phase of boyhood.

Would I set him loose on some hop harvesting friends. NO. but should we blame the kid?

Perhaps youir judgement should be questioned.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

All my siblings have kids (I don't) and they, as well as my parents, unanimously agree that boys are easier than girls. Surprised me.

It used to bother me that when we were all together for, say Christmas or Thanksgiving, one adult might say; "Junior, don't do that." and then EVERY other adult in the room (except me) would repeat it (because the child never responded to the first or second request). I thought that one request (from one adult) was enough and two was one too many. It also seemed that the original 'requestor' should follow through and everyone else stfu. Basically the kids just didn't respond to their parents/grandparents/aunts/uncles. They're all great parents and have patience I don't think I could ever have. If I have to ask more than once I'm already tilting a little.

But I don't really have a problem correcting a child in my home (never physically). I don't think of it as embarrassing the parents in front of the kid or vice versa, it's my home and my rules and seems perfectly natural/normal.

 

[TxBrew]

You won a free vacation!

I was hoping it was a boat.

 

[BeerWars]

Some others have touched on this.

It has to be pretty boring for a young boy to sit quietly while the men bag and weigh hops (brings me back to the days of carpet shopping with my parents).

Why didn't you give him a task to do? Not only would you have kept him busy, but letting a young man participate in something "manly" can only help him feel useful, masculine and part of the gang (which ironically would make him more inclined to listen to you).

By your own words he was screaming that he wanted to help you. LET HIM HELP!!! Give him a simple task like pushing the button on the vacuum sealer, handing you bags, putting vacuumed sealed bags in a box, mark the bags, etc. He just wanted to do SOMETHING.

Bad parenting and furthermore bad mentoring on you part. All of you did that kid a GREAT disservice by getting annoyed at him trying to help. Sends a TERRIBLE message. If you are excited to help and voice your enthusiasm - you will get yelled at by someone who now thinks of you as a "demon" and a "monster."

 

[cheezydemon3]

One thing I have learned about these "horrible annoying kids" threads, is that A: the OP does not have kids, and B the OP will never be convinced to see anything other than their own selfish view point.

Good luck to all the "I haven't read the thread" posters.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

One thing I have learned about these "horrible annoying kids" threads, is that A: the OP does not have kids, and B the OP will never be convinced to see anything other than their own selfish view point.

Both sides could be seen to be selfish depending on the perspective. The parents of the child could be argued as being selfish by expecting everybody else to 'put up' with junior.

I can understand trying to get him involved but the other side of the coin is that IF everytime the kid climbs all over somebody and says "I want, I WANT!..." and then the parents cave and then THAT sends a terrible message to the child and is a GREAT disservice. What about asking nicely without climbing all over a neighbor, digging right into what they are doing and screaming; "I wanna help, I WANNA HELP!"? Allowing a kid to do that and then caving to their demands is imo, part of the problem here.

 

[kjung]

Of course it is impossible to remember being 3 or 4, but rest assured, you were a demon too.

My son will be 3 next month, and even though he has been the most good natured and pleasant child up to recently, and despite our best parenting efforts, he is now entering the demon phase of boyhood.

Would I set him loose on some hop harvesting friends. NO. but should we blame the kid?

The kid deserves blame for not respecting the request/order of the OP, as small a blame as that should be. The vast majority of the blame, however, lies on the parents for A) not enforcing the simple rule that WE were all taught as a wee'n...respect your elders, and respect other people's things, and B) putting their kid in that situation in the first place...and leaving him in that situation.

Perhaps youir judgement should be questioned.

No, the judgement of the parents should be questioned. Your approach is more of a blame-the-victim type.

 

[Ricand]

I have successfully gotten difficult children to use our set of rules at our house. Parents have marveled at how well behaved their kid was when visiting. Children are more comfortable and happy when there are distinct rules and boundaries. Five grand kids now and very proud of how mine turned out

 

[Shooter]

I havn't read any of the posts or good advice because I'm a bit of an ahole.

If you don't fix this little bastard quick, he will grow up and be all over your lawn every damn day. Buy your friends a puppy. When they are playing with the puppy, steal the little bastard and sell him to a Chinese shirt factory.

Your friends get a puppy, the kid gets gainful employment, and you get some peace. On top of that everyone gets cheap shirts. Everyone is a winner!

Best advice on here! :rockin:

 

[IrregularPulse]

At the same time, parents need to be parents and manage their children such that they aren't making everyone insane.

I think this is the key problem. Sure the OP could have done all these things like give the boy a small job and this and that, but the point is that THE PARENTS should have done this. They're the ones who have a child either through planning or lack of safe sex. They made the life choices that led to being responsible for this boy, not the OP, and they need to handle these situations. My BIL and SIL are very similar to the OP's friends in parenting style. Funny thing is, their child behaves just fine if we're watching her or if my parents are watching her because she knows she doesn't get away with stuff. That's been established from the beginning. She knows she can get away with it around her parents because she knows her parents will do nothing more than shout from a couch.

"Children are more comfortable and happy when there are distinct rules and boundaries."
+100000

 

[EoinMag]

The kid deserves blame for not respecting the request/order of the OP, as small a blame as that should be. The vast majority of the blame, however, lies on the parents for A) not enforcing the simple rule that WE were all taught as a wee'n...respect your elders, and respect other people's things, and B) putting their kid in that situation in the first place...and leaving him in that situation.



No, the judgement of the parents should be questioned. Your approach is more of a blame-the-victim type.

The kid was how old exactly? Blame my arse, do you have kids yourself?

 

[IrregularPulse]

a 3-4 year old is plenty old enough to be taught rules and follow them. And yes I have kids. a 2 year old. Who listens. I hate the excuse of "they're too young". My kid has been in Timeouts and listening since he was a year old. He says please, thank you, and I'm sorry without having to be told every time. You teach them, they will learn. Especially at 3-4 years old.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Hey IP.

My 2 year old son has been the picture of discipline and good behavior. Now, 1 month before he turns 3, he is testing his boundaries. He is a "demon child". There should be boundaries, but what 3 year old didn't act out?

How do kids learn if they NEVER break the rules.

We humans have short memories. Any 3 year old that never acts out is stifled and probably beaten.

Show me a child that never acted out, and I will show you someone who will never have self esteem or the courage to act on their own.

 

[kjung]

The kid was how old exactly? Blame my arse, do you have kids yourself?

Yes, I do. I have two, and they were taught from about the same age as this kid right from wrong, to respect other people's things, etc.

An old drinking buddy of mine and I both had our first kids around the same time, and quickly followed with our second. we also both had the large, floor standing speakers for our stereos.
His wife was the type that didn't believe in "restricting" the kids as far as what they could and couldn't do, touch, play with, etc. around the house. As a result, by the time his kids were five, he had replaced the speaker grilles twice each, as well as both bass drivers, before finally giving up and getting rid of them and buying smaller bookshelf speakers.
I, on the other hand, made it known that the speakers, as well as my turntable (a very expensive high-end model) were "Not a toy. These are daddys. You don't touch." Once, and ONLY once, (at about the age of 3 or 4) did one of my kids push on the speaker grille. He got his hand slapped. Lighly, but enough to enforce the rule. End of story.

I still have the speakers, and turntable, BTW. In perfect working condition.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

The too young excuse is crap. Your 3 year old understands what you are saying and is choosing to disobey. I don't think that is a bad thing, but it is still the truth.

I believe (strongly) that the main thing to dealing with kids is following through on what you say. If I say, don't do that because x, and if you do, y will happen. You bet your ass that kid is getting y if they choose not to listen. My 1 year old knows what is going on and is already choosing to listen or not. Kids are way smarter than most adults give them credit for. They can't reason, but they sure as hell understand causality.

Also, I acted out in public a few times as a child, but never like crazy kids you see. I remember vividly one time acting out in public. I kicked my moms shin as a 3 year old because I wanted a toy. After biking my ass home and being told why that way inappropriate, I received a wicked spanking. Only time that ever happened... Dealing with kids isn't all that complicated, but parents have to be willing to put their kids ahead of themselves. If your kids is screaming or being naughty at dinner in a nice restaurant (or anywhere really) they need to leave. Immediately in my opinion. To many parents are unwilling to make the small sacrifices that save everyone else's sanity and shows their children that some actions are just not acceptable and won't be tolerated.

On another side of things... dude you take your brewing maybe a bit serious... it was a bag of hops, not your life savings that could have been destroyed. Kids will be kids to a certain extent, and it really sounds like the kids just wanted to help.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Yes, I do. I have two, and they were taught from about the same age as this kid right from wrong, to respect other people's things, etc.

An old drinking buddy of mine and I both had our first kids around the same time, and quickly followed with our second. we also both had the large, floor standing speakers for our stereos.
His wife was the type that didn't believe in "restricting" the kids as far as what they could and couldn't do, touch, play with, etc. around the house. As a result, by the time his kids were five, he had replaced the speaker grilles twice each, as well as both bass drivers, before finally giving up and getting rid of them and buying smaller bookshelf speakers.
I, on the other hand, made it known that the speakers, as well as my turntable (a very expensive high-end model) were "Not a toy. These are daddys. You don't touch." Once, and ONLY once, (at about the age of 3 or 4) did one of my kids push on the speaker grille. He got his hand slapped. Lighly, but enough to enforce the rule. End of story.

I still have the speakers, and turntable, BTW. In perfect working condition.

Great story. It just doesn't take much if you show a consistent response and keep expectations high.

 

[cheezydemon3]

Meanwhile , the kid allowed to play as long as he is not being intentionally destructive goes on to become president.

The obedient kid who is slapped and ordered around by a drill seargent goes on to murder cereal.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

By your own words he was screaming that he wanted to help you. LET HIM HELP!!! Give him a simple task like pushing the button on the vacuum sealer

He's a toddler, he's not stupid. He has a limited vocabulary, but knows how to manipulate it. "Help" is a code word he learned from his parents. it doesn't mean "I want to push a button when you tell me to" It means "I want to put my grubby little mitts in all these funny things and throw them the f#ck all over the place"

Smash his train set.

 

[Shooter]

He's a toddler, he's not stupid. He has a limited vocabulary, but knows how to manipulate it. "Help" is a code word he learned from his parents. it doesn't mean "I want to push a button when you tell me to" It means "I want to put my grubby little mitts in all these funny things and throw them the f#ck all over the place"

Smash his train set.

You, Sir, sound like you have a way with children. I'm surprised you haven't penned a manuscript on the subtle art of child rearing, a primer for the inept louts who pass as parents these days.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

You, Sir, sound like you have a way with children. I'm surprised you haven't penned a manuscript on the subtle art of child rearing, a primer for the inept louts who pass as parents these days.

Search "Get off my Lawn, You Little Bastard" It's #23 on Amazon!

 

[Yooper]

One thing I have learned about these "horrible annoying kids" threads, is that A: the OP does not have kids, and B the OP will never be convinced to see anything other than their own selfish view point.

Good luck to all the "I haven't read the thread" posters.

You know what, though? I HAVE kids, and now a grandchild. Everyday I see holy terrors running and jumping and screaming in the grocery stores while the hand wringing mother says, "Oh, Bobby, please don't throw things. That's not nice." This whole "me" generation of talking sweetly to our children and caring about their feelings had gotten out of hand. We have a society of sub-teens who think they are entitled to everything because their parents never said "NO- that's wrong."

I actually heard a mom tell her three-year-old "Please don't pull mommy's hair.". Um, please? How about this instead? "Hair pulling hurts. Stop it right now." We don't have to say please to ask for appropriate behavior. "Please" is for "pass the salt" not "Please don't hurt me!"

Also, for the non-child homes, why should the OP redirect the child? If the child is bored, it's the PARENTS who need to say, "Jimmy, you seem like you want to do something to help. Why don't you _______?" If the parents are friggin oblivious, it's not the OP's fault- it's their fault.

 

[annasdadhockey]

Meanwhile , the kid allowed to play as long as he is not being intentionally destructive goes on to become president.

The obedient kid who is slapped and ordered around by a drill seargent goes on to murder cereal.

:Note to self: update ignore list.

 

[cheezydemon3]

You know what, though? I HAVE kids, and now a grandchild. Everyday I see holy terrors running and jumping and screaming in the grocery stores while the hand wringing mother says, "Oh, Bobby, please don't throw things. That's not nice." This whole "me" generation of talking sweetly to our children and caring about their feelings had gotten out of hand. We have a society of sub-teens who think they are entitled to everything because their parents never said "NO- that's wrong."

I actually heard a mom tell her three-year-old "Please don't pull mommy's hair.". Um, please? How about this instead? "Hair pulling hurts. Stop it right now." We don't have to say please to ask for appropriate behavior. "Please" is for "pass the salt" not "Please don't hurt me!"

Also, for the non-child homes, why should the OP redirect the child? If the child is bored, it's the PARENTS who need to say, "Jimmy, you seem like you want to do something to help. Why don't you _______?" If the parents are friggin oblivious, it's not the OP's fault- it's their fault.

I was saying that it was the parents fault. I agree too that the immediate reward me generation is an over correction, but the heavy handed spanking generation before it was no more right.

I hate it worse to see a mom beating and screaming at her kids at a gas station because they aren't "minding" her.

 

[cheezydemon3]

:Note to self: update ignore list.

Note to self, feel sorry for anna. Suit yourself buddy.

 

[Shooter]

I actually heard a mom tell her three-year-old "Please don't pull mommy's hair.". Um, please? How about this instead? "Hair pulling hurts. Stop it right now." We don't have to say please to ask for appropriate behavior. "Please" is for "pass the salt" not "Please don't hurt me!"

I love it!!! Sometimes I get the disapproving look because I'll mention to a friend or coworker, "Man, my kids were really making me PO'd last night." Oh tsk, tsk, says their look.

Tsk, tsk to them. Just because everyone doesn't live up to their idealized model of the saintly parent then, "OH MY!" It's kind of like this thread. All these people telling the OP how he should have gently nurtured the child. Fair enough, of course they tell him that in the most nasty way sometimes. "You should have guided that boy....you f'ing MORON!!!" Pot meet kettle!

I told a good friend of mine who was thinking about having kids, but wasn't sure, that he needed to be sure because they can be the biggest headache in the world. He seemed puzzled with my advice until I told him, they can also be your greatest source of joy. Trying to be the "perfect" parent is a road that leads to ruin. Sometimes you'll mess up, sometimes you'll overreact, sometimes you'll want to scream...and welcome to life!

 

[Pappers_]

 

[cimirie]

I tried to hold it in, but after reading the 12th post about how the OP should check himself or get over himself and its just a boy being a boy, I had to say something.

First, good on you for setting the kid straight. I'm so sick of psychological excuses for today's kids. Yes, redirection is an effective method to deal with some children if you have patience and are trying to establish long-term behavior. The OP wasn't - he was trying to bag and tag his hops and devil child was messing it up.

That's not boys being boys - that's disrespect. Any parent who passes it off as "boys" is adding to the problem. At age 2 or age 17, children should respond to parents. Mom or Dad tells you to sit in a corner and not move, guess what? Don't move.

I'm not saying it's easy to get to that point. It takes a lot of parenting, but it's very achievable.

Get over himself? A child runs rough shod over one of his projects, the parents do nothing and somehow he's supposed to grit his teeth and bare it so some kid doesn't have to learn at a young age that respecting elders is important. Kids (and adults) respond to conditioning. Positive has been shown to be more effective, but negative IS an effective way to deter behavior. Yell at a kid, he's less likely to do it again.

Would I have said something in his shoes... Maybe not. But to tell the OP he handled it wrong sounds like over-psyched parents making excuses.

 

[cimirie]

I agree too that the immediate reward me generation is an over correction, but the heavy handed spanking generation before it was no more right.

Maybe not any more "right," but that approach was much more effective at raising a generation that respects elders and others in general, is polite, and doesn't have an over-inflated sense of self importance.

There are obviously rude, obtrusive, ego-maniacs from all generations. But they are becoming far more frequent mainly due to hand holding and putting the child's emotional well being ahead of the child's long-term societal well-being.

 

[northernlad]

There are too many posts here to respond to so I'll keep it to yours.
The first thing you should have said the first time he climbed on you was "Get off me" The second time should have been the last time and an automatic uninvite for the child. Crrapy parent's children are not cute. They are a pest, much like a tick or a flea.
Redirection is for hippies and people who want their children to be their friends.
My nephews have not been taught how to control themselves around things that don't belong to them and they get an earful almost every time they are at my house. One of them pulled the pitchfork out of my compost pile and swung it around until he hit a neighbor kid. WTF? Kepp your grubby little dickskinners off things that aren't yours. This can be taught to a child before they can speak.
Your house, your rules.

 

[northernlad]

Sorry for the double post but I read this after...

Maybe not any more "right," but that approach was much more effective at raising a generation that respects elders and others in general, is polite, and doesn't have an over-inflated sense of self importance.

There are obviously rude, obtrusive, ego-maniacs from all generations. But they are becoming far more frequent mainly due to hand holding and putting the child's emotional well being ahead of the child's long-term societal well-being.

If the bleeding hearts are so worried about the emotional well being of a child I challenge them to look at how many gun toting sociopaths there are now versus 40 years ago when a kid got a good ass whupping as punishment.

 

[scrambledegg81]

Here's the gist I got:

1) Kid jumped all over OP's hops, demanded to help, potentially contaminating said hops, and obviously frustrating OP.

2) Kid's parents saw OP getting frustrated, and made a half-hearted attempt to stop kid from being frustrating to OP.

3) Kid did not stop, further pissing off OP to the point of having to ask parents to control kid before it came to punts or duct tape. One parent takes it as personal attack on her parenting skills. Fuming and mumbled curses ensue.

Boil it all down:
Parents are responsible for showing kids what is and is not proper behavior, and in this case, improper behavior was not negatively enforced. Hence, kid will continue to act out. It's not "being a kid", it's not a matter of OP "over-reacting", it's bad parenting. Straight & simple.

(No I don't have kids, and yes, I am a Green Party member. )

 

[EoinMag]

Get over himself? A child runs rough shod over one of his projects, the parents do nothing and somehow he's supposed to grit his teeth and bare it so some kid doesn't have to learn at a young age that respecting elders is important. Kids (and adults) respond to conditioning. Positive has been shown to be more effective, but negative IS an effective way to deter behavior. Yell at a kid, he's less likely to do it again.

Would I have said something in his shoes... Maybe not. But to tell the OP he handled it wrong sounds like over-psyched parents making excuses.

Hmmm he should man up if he has a problem with anyones behaviour in his house, if he values the relationship with the parents, he needs to be careful about how he does it. What did he do?

If he raised his voice in my house I'd have punched him in the mouth...he could have handled it better.

The parents could also have handled it better, but he's on here being a ***** about how a 3 year old got the better of him.

I don't have issues with my own three year old, that said he's learning self-awareness at the moment and is getting to be a bit of a handful, but he's being taught what is right and we'll get over it soon with no damage to anyone.

Short story, the OP was beaten by a 3 year old and comes on here complaining about the parents not parenting and the THREE year old being a demon child, tchah.

 

[superjunior]

too many replies to address each one. as some have suggested here, no, I do not have kids. wife and I chose not to. We have a 5 yr old nephew that we love dearly and he has his moments like any other kid, but he's a very well behaved boy. One of my best Friends has 2 boys that are now 15 and 17. I watched these kids grow up from child birth to present time and they are respectful young men because they were brought up properly. My Friend was never afraid to give em the belt if need be. As to my other Friends with the demon boy, they are just flat out bad parents, great people but not mentally mature enough (more so the wife) for parenting. thanks for all the replies, well all accept eoinmag

 

[EoinMag]

too many replies to address each one. as some have suggested here, no, I do not have kids. wife and I chose not to. We have a 5 yr old nephew that we love dearly and he has his moments like any other kid, but he's a very well behaved boy. One of my best Friends has 2 boys that are now 15 and 17. I watched these kids grow up from child birth to present time and they are respectful young men because they were brought up properly. My Friend was never afraid to give em the belt if need be. As to my other Friends with the demon boy, they are just flat out bad parents, great people but not mentally mature enough (more so the wife) for parenting. thanks for all the replies, well all accept eoinmag

You're welcome dude, maybe some day you'll grow up too

 

[Pappers_]

I thought the OP was fine. And the the first few pages of replies, back and forth, were ok, too.

But now, after all these pages of ill-informed, poorly-reasoned, fantasy-based, cantankerous, argumentative and just plain bad posts, I nominate this thread for the coveted "Worst Thread Outside of the Debate Forum Award." [/FONT]

This thread is even more deserving than the one where the guy imploded and started calling everyone (including moderators) very naughty names. But that thread was at least amusing, until he was sent into exile.

This one just makes my head hurt.

 

[MBasile]

Whenever I'm in a situation like that, I pull the kid out of the situation and look to the parents to avoid it from happening again. I used to work in a small retail store and kids would throw **** everywhere. I'd stop them and then tell the parents to watch them, otherwise it was more of a mess for me to clean up. Dealing with the kids can easily be done without yelling at or harming the child. A simple "No." from a stranger (someone they are not use to rebelling against) usually stuns them for long enough that they stop destroying whatever it is they've gotten their hands on.

DISCLAIMER: I have not read anything beyond the original post.

 

[Pappers_]

DISCLAIMER: I have not read anything beyond the original post.

You are so fortunate . . .