My $15 pint of beer today

[MaxStout]

I went to a brewery in the North Loop area of Minneapolis today. I hadn't been there in a while, and I was running an errand nearby, so thought I'd stop in for a pint. I ordered a pint of an Irish stout, $8. It was so-so, and I finished it and went to the counter to close out. That $8 pint came with a 20% compulsory tip, plus a flat $3.50 charge that allegedly is used to "help pay staff a living wage," a 5% cc fee, and 9% local/state sales tax. The bill came out to $15 for a beer I could brew better myself.

grrr

That $15 could pay for half of the ingredients for my next 5 gallon brew, or a 4-pack of something really good from the liquor store.

 

[Airborneguy]

Wow. No shot I’d go back.

 

[Skeeter686]

I expect you won't have to worry about stopping there in the future... I expect those prices will put them out of business. I thought beers only cost that much at airports and ballgames.

 

[lumpher]

So a mandatory tip on top of a wage subsidy on top of a not-included tax... besides an $8 beer, and not even in Manhattan... yep, homebrew is better in many ways.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

What's the name of the brewery?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

So a mandatory tip on top of a wage subsidy on top of a not-included tax... besides an $8 beer, and not even in Manhattan... yep, homebrew is better in many ways.

There may be some regional differences involved.

In the MN/WI area, sales tax is always an add-on to the list price.

Stores can also post fees for credit card usage and/or discounts for cash.

 

[OleBrewing]

wonder if that is per ticket or each item ordered. if per ticket should had at least 6

 

[whoaru99]

wonder if that is per ticket or each item ordered. if per ticket should had at least 6

You're referring to the $3.50 "living wage" charge?

Wouldn't all the rest be the listed % of the total tab regardless if one or six or however many?

 

[mac_1103]

So for close to fifty years I've been tipping servers because nobody paid them a living wage. Now I have to pay a fee so they can get paid a living wage but I still have to tip them?

 

[lumpher]

There may be some regional differences involved.

In the MN/WI area, sales tax is always an add-on to the list price.

Stores can also post fees for credit card usage and/or discounts for cash.

I understand the credit card add. 4% is standard most places, but a mandatory tip... I tip anyway, but mandatory? And a mandatory fee to help pay wages?

 

[wepeeler]

That's ridiculous. No tip should be mandatory. There's a brewery close to me that sells their 4 packs for $11 at local package stores, but they charge $7-8/beer at the brewery. Add in a 25% tip and that's $9+ a pint. Price to pay to go out and have a beer, but it sucks...

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

I appreciate @MaxStout mentioning the $15 beer.

I tip anyway, but mandatory? And a mandatory fee to help pay wages?

I would prefer to not have to deal with fees when eating out. Simplest thing possible is to not eat out. Occasionally, I do go out to a small number of "usual" places - where they don't charge fees or force tip percentages.

If the fees are clearly disclosed, in advance, I have the option to stay or to go. I may not like it. But, at the moment, it is what it is.

If the fees are not disclosed until checkout, I'd slowly pay, leave quietly, and never come back.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'd tell the manager that the beer was mediocre but I'd still come back and try something else. The extra BS fees however are a deal breaker and that's why I'd never go back. They are predatory and take advantage of people that don't say anything.

 

[Hoochin'Fool]

I would have definitely told them to go to hell on that extra $3.50 fee. That is ridiculous to charge to someone who just came in for one beer, and I wonder if maybe that charge was added by mistake? I'd ask you which brewery it was, but I've been to all of them except for The Freehouse, and was never wowed by anything I tried at any of those places. Tho we all loved the pizza at Bricksworth's.

https://www.google.com/search?q=north+loop+minneapolis+brewery

 

[MaxStout]

It's two different fees, both supposedly going to the staff. I don't have a problem with paying a little more to help out staff. I am all for people being paid a living wage. I'm usually a very generous tipper. In a perfect world the brewery would pay staff a decent wage from the beginning and not have to rely on extra charges at the end for the customer to "top things off." But in doing this fee thing instead, the brewery has the best of both worlds: they can keep prices lower and keep paying lower wages, with the customer picking up the extra. This is the system we have in the restaurant and bar industry in the U.S., and it happens a lot. I rather that they tack on another dollar for pours and pay their staff better.

The problem here is they initially had one fee, the 20% compulsory fee, which has been in place since the pandemic wound down a year or so ago. I've known about this 20% fee and I've been OK with it. But now they have added a second, a flat fee of $3.50 per bill, that supposedly goes to the staff as well. Or does it? The flat fee is added after the bill has been settled and the receipt is issued. The transaction should be complete at this point. Once the bill is settled, that should be final. Sneaking in another $3.50 after the POS completion is sketchy at best, and possibly illegal.

It's not the $3.50 to me. I could dig that out from under my sofa cushions. It's the idea that a business has to stoop to that level. If they're cheating you for that, what else are they cheating on?

I don't want this to turn into a tipping thread, as that can become very contentious. It really isn't about tipping, anyway. It's about dubious choices made by a business owner likely motivated by greed.

The brewery is Pryes Brewing Co. I've since discovered a number of online reviews pointing out this fee thing. Maybe it will bite them in the ass, maybe not. Don't care. I just know I'm not going back. You can't swing a dead cat in this town without hitting a brewery. Plenty of others.

I just wanted to vent here. Thanks for indulging me.

 

[Want2Brew]

@MaxStout , I’d have to say that that brewery is boarding on deceptive business practice. A bit over the line I’d say!

 

[Miraculix]

What type of weirdo logic is this? Not paying the staff enough to make a living but than forcing the customers to give the staff money so that they have enough to pay their bills?

Just do the math, pay the staff decent money and calculate the prices of the products accordingly.

Weird brewery.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

°

 

[lumpher]

I think I'll go to the nearest brewery (mine) and get a good beer, put 3.50 in the coffee can, leave a 25% tip, and use it for my next brewery upgrade. The wife can't complain, because I'm not even leaving the house...

 

[OleBrewing]

You're referring to the $3.50 "living wage" charge?

Wouldn't all the rest be the listed % of the total tab regardless if one or six or however many?

yeah the living wage. as far as the tip% i dont get out much so i am usually generous. probably not 20% unless the service is fantastic. either way i complain when the general can of beer hit the 3.50 mark and with subpar craft beer i think they are out of hand.

i assume they rent the establishment which is probably very high. i doubt this will be a long lived endeavor.

 

[MikeCo]

I don't go to that specific tap room anymore because of the high cost. Some friends of mine were commenting on the high prices their when I saw them a couple days ago. In general, I think beer in tap rooms has gotten ridiculously expensive. At $8+ a pint (which is often only 13 or 14 ounces), I go to tap rooms less frequently and usually only have one beer when I go.

 

[cobill]

Same issue in CO., most small businesses can’t survive with skyrocketing minimum wage rates, added fees, built-in tips, etc.

 

[tracer bullet]

Pryes

Interesting. I've been a few times, I like their beer, generally, and it's a pretty kid friendly place too. In the daytime in the summer anyhow. Thanks for the heads-up on this.

I'll probably continue to get the occasional mixed pack at the liquor store but consider some of the many other breweries the next time we hit one. Yeah there are a bazillion around here to choose from.

 

[mashdar]

If I have a receipt with a total, and they added the $3.50 after the fact, I'd chargeback the $3.50. One of the reviews says they only found out about the $3.50 via their credit card account.

edit: This also smacks of tax evasion...

 

[whoaru99]

I don't go to that specific tap room anymore because of the high cost.

Yeah, even out in the sticks "pints" are often $7, give or take.

 

[Brew_Dude41]

What I love is the place that has 2 different prices for the exact same product. (To go vs drink here)
A group of us went to one of the local places breweries for a bit of a parents night out. One of went to the tent (outside activities) and ordered few drafts and six beers that were canned. The person grabbed one of the 6'ers from the to go cooler behind her vs fishing out six individual cans to go the 2 drafts. Easy enough to carry back to the party all is well, and she got tipped well for her foresight and effort. Literally they are the same beer that are in the service cooler in front of just secured in the plastic 6 pack cap.
Her manager was none too happy about us cracking open that six pack at the table since to go 6 packs were $12 and the individual beer to enjoy there was $4 a can. She came over to us and started to tear into us about we were not allowed to drink those here and we were going to have to leave...
At that point the guy who bought the round produced the receipt that the bartender insisted on printing for him. It lt clearly showed the sale at the correct $4 per beer and the manager was quickly back tracking.
We thanked her for the enjoyable evening and explained that we were leaving now anyway to get closer to home, but now it was going to be with out additional to go beers.
I get the reasoning for it all as far the price goes, but don't lose your mind if you are dumb enough to have the to go beers processed at the same point of sale as your for here beer.

 

[mashdar]

What I love is the place that has 2 different prices for the exact same product. (To go vs drink here)

I don't know the various costs, but I could see the venue and staff for "drink here" being a significant investment. The two prices could hypothetically have the same margin.

That said, clearly they need a way to distinguish between the two if they're going to bust your chops.

I'm confused by the "for here" cans, as I have a (possibly irrational) preference for draught beer if I'm at a brewery. Was it a special event or something?

 

[Brew_Dude41]

I don't know the various costs, but I could see the venue and staff for "drink here" being a significant investment. The two prices could hypothetically have the same margin.

That said, clearly they need a way to distinguish between the two if they're going to bust your chops.

I'm confused by the "for here" cans, as I have a (possibly irrational) preference for draught beer if I'm at a brewery. Was it a special event or something?

They have a lot across the street from the main taproom that they will set up for different outdoor activities according to season. At this time there are some mini 'curling' lanes set up, bumper cars, and some tents for covered seating
Typically, I would be going with drafts as well, but they have limited tap options out there and most of them were higher ABV or sours. The cans were were quite a popular option for the group.

 

[Dland]

This is the system we have in the restaurant and bar industry in the U.S., and it happens a lot.

This is one of the reasons I drink my own beer, usually at home. And some people grouse about how expensive it is to home brew.

Of course the downside is I don't get out much, but in some places that is not much of a sacrifice.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

You got charged some virtue-signaling fees, plain and simple. You should publish the name of the place in order to protect others.

The person who runs this place is a hostile nutcase with control issues. If you want to pay your workers a living wage, just do it. Raise prices and shut up, like, well, every other business on the planet does. No intelligent person thinks you're virtuous for admitting you set wages too low to begin with.

I pay contractors all the time. None of them has ever had the stones to add a charge to compensate for his disgracefully low base wages, which were his idea to begin with. "I underpay my workers because I feel like it, so here's a 44% charge I can pretend I'll pass on to them." Stupid. I wonder how much of that money gets to the staff. Maybe they get charged for oxygen.

Were you taxed on the tip and the grandstanding fee?

Charging extra for credit cards is insulting. If you're determined to recoup processing fees, offer a cash discount instead. Same result, and you'll make customers happy, not angry.

I've never seen a 4% credit card fee in my life. I've seen 3%, rarely, for American Express. I pay for health insurance with American Express. They give me money back in points, and the insurance company doesn't have the brains to add a fee to my premium, let alone charge me for Amex's cut. A mystery.

Prices are nuts these days. Where I live, there isn't much difference between the breakfast prices at McDonald's and Cracker Barrel, a real restaurant. I can eat McMuffins out of greasy wrappers, or I can spend a couple of dollars more, sit at a nice wooden table, and get real food and endless coffee refills.

 

[mashdar]

Let's not get too political or this will be the DME thread all over again (deleted?)

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

There are restaurateurs on both sides of the spectrum who have put political messages and charges on bills. It's annoying either way.

Five Guys raised charges dramatically at selected restaurants to complain about something or other the government made them do for employees. I could not believe it when I got a bill for $17.34 at a burger joint, about a decade ago.

 

[Skeeter686]

Charging extra for credit cards is insulting. If you're determined to recoup processing fees, offer a cash discount instead. Same result, and you'll make customers happy, not angry.

I was thinking the same thing. I've gotten the "cash discount" at a variety of places in the past and although I recognize that it's just a marketing spin for a credit card surcharge, I do find it easier to swallow.

I find the CC surcharge to be offensive, particularly when I'm certain that most of the sales are on plastic. One of the local breweries doesn't even accept cash. I swear the bills in my wallet state: "legal tender for all debts public and private".

 

[mac_1103]

the insurance company doesn't have the brains to add a fee to my premium, let alone charge me for Amex's cut. A mystery.

Much like "free" shipping, they bake the credit card transaction fee into what they charge everyone. Nobody writes checks anymore, right? But I guess this is still penalizing people who pay with debit cards.

 

[whoaru99]

Nobody writes checks anymore, right?

I do occasionally. Majority of places around here still accept them.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

I still have to write a few.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I went to a brewery in the North Loop area of Minneapolis today. I hadn't been there in a while, and I was running an errand nearby, so thought I'd stop in for a pint. I ordered a pint of an Irish stout, $8. It was so-so, and I finished it and went to the counter to close out. That $8 pint came with a 20% compulsory tip, plus a flat $3.50 charge that allegedly is used to "help pay staff a living wage," a 5% cc fee, and 9% local/state sales tax. The bill came out to $15 for a beer I could brew better myself.

grrr

That $15 could pay for half of the ingredients for my next 5 gallon brew, or a 4-pack of something really good from the liquor store.

Geez, I fee for living wage AND a mandatory tip?! I hope all that shiz was posted and whatever cash you were going to leave went back in your wallet.

 

[Clint Yeastwood]

Movie theater popcorn is a better deal.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm confused by the "for here" cans, as I have a (possibly irrational) preference for draught beer if I'm at a brewery. Was it a special event or something?

This is just the impossibility of accurately estimating the ratio of taproom vs. to go sales. Once you're out of that beer in the kegs but still have plenty in cans, you'd be nuts to let it age out in the can and not sell it in the taproom. However, cracking them and pouring them would be the more appropriate serving method before it gets to the customer.

 

[Bobby_M]

I was thinking the same thing. I've gotten the "cash discount" at a variety of places in the past and although I recognize that it's just a marketing spin for a credit card surcharge, I do find it easier to swallow.

I find the CC surcharge to be offensive, particularly when I'm certain that most of the sales are on plastic. One of the local breweries doesn't even accept cash. I swear the bills in my wallet state: "legal tender for all debts public and private".

Businesses that don't take cash don't trust their employees not to skim, plain and simple. I was surprised to find that there was no federal law that compels a private business to accept cash as payment for goods or services.

I fully understand the controversy over credit card surcharges or cash discounts as it does seem to be an arbitrary airing of cost of doing business. On the more extreme end of the argument, you don't charge extra if someone uses your restroom while there. As a business owner, and as I said in the DME thread, the variability of shipping cost by destination and total lack of shipping cost and packing overhead on the walk in business, I decided not to offer free shipping across the board and make everyone pay the same as a subsidy.

I thought long and hard about the credit card fee thing. As more and more local businesses enacted the fee, I realized that more locals expected to see it. I also decided it was better to make it a cash discount. The reason I went with it is that it's a choice the customer can make right on the spot. You want the convenience of not carrying cash, no problem. You cover the fee for processing while everyone else can enjoy the discount. The money is literally going right to the credit card company so using cash allows that money to stay either in the customer's pocket or the business owners depending on what policy is enacted.

AMEX can eat it.