Might have messed up an Imperial Stout - help and suggestions please! :)

[howard86]

Hi, I started a Russian Imperial Stout on Thursday 22nd August, following a recipe I'd found a while back. Beersmith suggested it would come out at 11% or so.

I'm still pretty new to all grain brewing after inheriting a kettle, cooler, mash tun etc from a friends brother who sadly passed on.

I've done a bit of extract brewing which came out ok but still getting the grips with this style, especially getting the right OG.

Anyway I messed up and bunged some DME in with my boil as I was low. I was aiming for 1.095ish and got 1.070 (like I said I'm still getting the hang of this). This bumped it up to 1.100.

I'd started a yeast starter the day before and put this in when it was cooled down. Having looked back the starter probably needed longer. Fermentation yesterday was really fast, a bubble every second give or take, but has slowed to one every 4-5 seconds today.

I had a bit of brain freeze this morning and put in a second packet of wyeast irish ale like I'd used for the starter. In hindsight it probably won't do anything due to the alcohol levels?.

So my main question, is what do I do now? Should I just let it ferment out, take a gravity reading and see where it lands up. If it lands up significantly high on the final gravity is there a way to get it going again with more yeast or just treat it as a project that didn't work and next time do a longer starter etc?

Thanks if anyone can give some advice, or if this is in the wrong area of the forum to point me in the right direction!

 

[GoeHaarden]

When ever you're uncertain about fermentation you should take a gravity reading which is really the best way to determine what is going on. Airlocks should only be used for entertainment purposes really...

I'd just leave it as is and let it ride for a month. A starter really only needs about 18 hours if you pitch the whole starter, longer obviously, if you cold crash and decant. So I wouldn't worry about it especially since you had activity quickly. Any gravity 1.035 and under I'd be happy with in a big beer like that...it's going to be okay.

Let's just hope you didn't oxidize it by adding more yeast...I'm joking of course! Don't sweat the small stuff.

Cheers!

 

[Smellyglove]

I feel this might be interesting when it's done fermenting. ¨

Did you use more yeast for a bigger beer?
Temperature control?

For a 1.110+ beer these things are really important.

 

[howard86]

GoeHaarden - Thanks for the reply, it's given me some hope it'll come out ok. I will take a reading in a day or so, or would today be a good idea to see how it's progressing?
I made the started quite late the night before, around 11pm, so it had until about 9pm the following evening before I pitched it.

Smellyglove - I've just left it in the back room indoors. We had a reasonably hot day today and yesterday for the UK. I didn't really add the extra yeast to try to make it bigger than what the recipe stated, I just thought that the starter hadn't had long enough and it might ferment out at something like 7-8% instead of the 11% that beersmith suggested it'd reach. I normally just do the odd wine and cider each year so beer with an all grain system is a big learning curve at the moment.

Cheers

 

[GoeHaarden]

As @Smellyglove already hinted. A healthy yeast pitch and fermentation temperature control are huge for the success of a big beer. Well, it's at the top of my list (along with water chemistry) of importance for any beer.

How big was your starter?

Also, when you do all-grain for big beers one thing to remember is that your mash efficiency drops significantly, meaning it takes more grain to achieve a desired gravity level. Which is probably one reason you didn't hit your target.

 

[howard86]

From what I remember I used about 90grams of dme and 1 litre of water. I'm not sure the water chemistry here, just know it comes from a borehole in our field next door. The water is hard and there is a softener system but that's about all I know.

Is the best form of temperature control a stick on thermometer that I can keep on the glass carboy I use?

If it helps, the recipe I used was this

17lb maris otter pale malt
1.2lb roasted barly malt
1lb special b malt
0.75lb chocolate malt
0.50lb carapils malt
0.2lb black malt

109g challenger hops at 60mins
38g goldings at 30mins

I didn't have enough roasted barley for the original recipe so made up the last bit with the black malt.
Same with hops - yeah I really prepared for this one but I was sure I had enough of everything.. d'oh. Least my next planned brew day I have everything anyway

 

[Smellyglove]

From what I remember I used about 90grams of dme and 1 litre of water. I'm not sure the water chemistry here, just know it comes from a borehole in our field next door. The water is hard and there is a softener system but that's about all I know.

Is the best form of temperature control a stick on thermometer that I can keep on the glass carboy I use?

If it helps, the recipe I used was this

17lb maris otter pale malt
1.2lb roasted barly malt
1lb special b malt
0.75lb chocolate malt
0.50lb carapils malt
0.2lb black malt

109g challenger hops at 60mins
38g goldings at 30mins

I didn't have enough roasted barley for the original recipe so made up the last bit with the black malt.
Same with hops - yeah I really prepared for this one but I was sure I had enough of everything.. d'oh. Least my next planned brew day I have everything anyway

There is a softener system? If it's a "standard" system you exchange Ca and Mg for Na (sodium). If this is the case, then this might be even more interesting.

 

[howard86]

There is a softener system? If it's a "standard" system you exchange Ca and Mg for Na (sodium). If this is the case, then this might be even more interesting.

I'm in two minds as to whether this means it'll come out horrific, or if it'll be vaguely drinkable haha, whats so interesting exactly?

 

[Smellyglove]

I'm in two minds as to whether this means it'll come out horrific, or if it'll be vaguely drinkable haha, whats so interesting exactly?

You've exchanged the calcium with sodium. You don't want to much sodium in the beer, but you want some calcium. Bur if you've used this water before, and feel it's alright, then nothing new I suppose.

 

[howard86]

From what I've read some people reckon water softened beer has a salty edge to it, but what I've made in the past didn't..or I'm just immune to noticing having had it for decades. Either way I just did a gravity check and it said 1.040, is it normal for it to go down so quickly ?

 

[Smellyglove]

From what I've read some people reckon water softened beer has a salty edge to it, but what I've made in the past didn't..or I'm just immune to noticing having had it for decades. Either way I just did a gravity check and it said 1.040, is it normal for it to go down so quickly ?

An imp goes pretty fast down after you've let it rip to about what you're experiencing about 1.040. then it goes slower. Taste is another variable. I don't like fermenting my big ones fast. After about 7 days (free from memory) I uasually average about 15 points pr day. Maximum is 18 points.

 

[howard86]

Ah thanks for explaining that, it all helps with future brews. I also found out that the water softener doesn't link to the drinking water so the sodium issue isn't a problem. But I guess hard water is still awkward

 

[Smellyglove]

Ah thanks for explaining that, it all helps with future brews. I also found out that the water softener doesn't link to the drinking water so the sodium issue isn't a problem. But I guess hard water is still awkward

If you have hard water (in regards of alkalinity at least) then a RIS is the beer you'd want to brew.

 

[Smellyglove]

Give it a week, take a hydrometer sample. Then wait another week, take a hydrometer sample, then wait one more final week, take a hydrometer sample. Taste them all. If it tastes "off" in any way at the last hydrometer sample find out why it does so. Bottle it, and read why it tastes strange, let it sit, forget it. A RIS isn't extremely simple beer to pull off. But they should taste great at week 3, and only become better after that imo. But I'm not a bliever in that one have to "cellar out" off flavors, if one has an off-flavor something has gone wrong. It will never be a great beer, but it can be an drinkable beer if one has to cellar out an off-flavor. my opinion.

 

[howard86]

Great, thanks again I'll follow the advice and see how it turns out. The guy who made the recipe suggested something like 2 months in secondary to age before bottling, but if you reckon after 3 weeks is ok I'll do that. Give's me a chance to make a few bottles empty before then too ! Thanks again!

 

[Smellyglove]

Great, thanks again I'll follow the advice and see how it turns out. The guy who made the recipe suggested something like 2 months in secondary to age before bottling, but if you reckon after 3 weeks is ok I'll do that. Give's me a chance to make a few bottles empty before then too ! Thanks again!

Don't transfer it to anything "secondary". You'll pick up oxygen. A black beer of that strength will show oxygen in a matter of days. It will become "dusty/paper-ish" in a few days and just go downhill from there. Just let it sit three weeks, take it for what is is then. Do not dry-hop it. And bottle with fresh yeast. Be ware that it might utilize some other sugars than the ones you added for bottling if you have a stalled fermentation.

 

[howard86]

That's something else I've not done before - bottling with yeast. Is there a strain you'd suggest for bottling this type of beer?

 

[Miraculix]

Really depends on the type of yeast you used in the beer and its alcohol tolerance.

Of you are not getting close to it's alcohol tolerance, I wouldn't add a bottling yeast after such a short primary (short for a big beer). There should be enough in suspension.

If you really want to, use lallemand cbc1, it does not utilise the remaining sugars from the wort, but only the simple priming sugars. It is also extremely tolerant to higher alcohol levels.

 

[Smellyglove]

CBC1 or F2. I did only mention this since you don't have much experience with big beers. It's possible to "burn out" the fermenting yeast.

 

[howard86]

Sorry, hectic last week or so. I've checked the gravity today and the previous Saturday and it hasn't moved from about 1.034 so looks like it won't change from there. So using the calculater on the brewersfriend page suggests its about 8.6% abv. That's fine by me.

Question about bottling with yeast as I can pick up some cbc-1 yeast this week. If I get a single pack of it do I just add that to the bucket I siphon it into, along with however much priming sugar I will need and then siphon it into bottles?
Thanks again