Mash out disaster...

[jbaysurfer]

So yesterday I was brewing with a change to my setup. I got a 10G SS Kettle that I am going to use as my Mash Tun going forward. Mistake 1, I got cocky and assumed I could not only brew with a changed setup without incident, I thought I'd go ahead and do a double batch to restock the pipeline.

First mash was the blonde. Everything went according to plan, but I thought since I had a direct fired MT and Falsebottom and a pump I'd go ahead and do a mash out (mashing out vs. not mashing out isn't a debate I'm interested in having in this thread FTR, because I know I didn't NEED too). I fired up the recirc pump fired up the burner under the mash tun, and let it heat up while the sparge water was heating on the other burner. When it got to 170, I "thought" I turned the flame off from under the MT, but instead I turned it up. I couldn't tell the difference because the burner under the HLT was really loud. Few minutes later I'm watching wierd consistency wort roll through my recirc hose and I look at the temp. 210F!!!!!!!

So I lost that batch. Lost the time I put into it, and all the grain.

Next up was a big IPA. 1.084 OG. I did everything the same and thought I'd give the mash out another try (with much more discipline about watching the heat and turning it OFF this time). I did and in just a couple short minutes, the temp got away from me again. 182 was where I finally cut the heat.

I'm guessing I probably won't extract any tannins from that temp, but I'm open to reassurance.

Maybe I should just abandon the mash out step since I lost a 10lb grainbill and almost lost a nearly 20lb grainbill the second time around. LOL. Live and learn. I now see the value in having all your burners electronically controlled with a temp controller vs. doing it manually.

 

[brycelarson]

are you fermenting them or did you dump the first batch?

 

[jbaysurfer]

are you fermenting them or did you dump the first batch?

I dumped it. I'm getting ready for an oktoberfest party, and I don't have room in my ferment chamber for experimental batches. Maybe someone will tell that beer would've been fine, but it was all clumpy and congealed and wouldn't even recirculate when I finally caught on to what was going on, so sparging would've been a nightmare.

Once you've already lost 1.5 hours or more (including the time to heat the strike water and mill the grain) you don't want to invest anymore time into that failure, ya know?

Edit, and absolutely I'm fermenting the IIPA, it's bubbling away as we speak. I didn't think 180F was a deal breaker on that one. It did mash for an hour at 154-152 and I got decent efficiency.

 

[billl]

Not sure you needed to dump the first and you probably shouldn't be concerned about the second. How did they taste?

Despite the warnings, heating mash doesn't necessarily do anything bad. Germans have be decoction mashing for centuries and literally boiling portions of the mash. As long as the mash ph stays low, it doesn't produce off flavors.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Not sure you needed to dump the first and you probably shouldn't be concerned about the second. How did they taste?

Despite the warnings, heating mash doesn't necessarily do anything bad. Germans have be decoction mashing for centuries and literally boiling portions of the mash. As long as the mash ph stays low, it doesn't produce off flavors.

Not arguing, but just to discuss:

Isn't it a whole different deal when I've heated the grainbed to 210F rather then in a decoction when you merely boil the wort then recirculate it back to the grainbed to step up the temp?

Edit, second one tasted fine. First one I didn't taste since I assumed the tannins wouldn't reveal themselves until I had boiled and wasted hops and yeast on it too. Maybe another mistake, but my blonde is one of my most popular beers (you know, with the ladies!) and I'm anal, "Beer" doesn't do it for me, I want to make GOOD beer. ;-) Thought the risk of fermenting a bad beer when I could be using that space to ferment a good beer that I'd serve for octoberfest was too great.

 

[brycelarson]

Not arguing, but just to discuss:

Isn't it a whole different deal when I've heated the grainbed to 210F rather then in a decoction when you merely boil the wort then recirculate it back to the grainbed to step up the temp?

nope, you take some of the grain and wort - boil that and add back. Some of the magic is that depending on how much grain to wort you end up pulling you get more or less malliard reaction.

 

[billl]

Yep - you scoop out grain and wort and boil them together. It definitely flies in the face of what gets repeated in american homebrew circles about extracting tannins.


Completely understandable about not wanting to take chances with an "event" beer. I was just tossing that out there because you aren't the first person to overshoot a mash out and you certainly won't be the last.

 

[brycelarson]

I'm a sucker for "lets see what the hell happens" with mistakes. I get your thought process - but I bet it would have been fine.

 

[Bobby_M]

Since the mash was still thick, the boiling thing would have only been an issue if you were scorching at the bottom. If your pH was in range, it would have been fine.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Wow, I thought at 210F it was a goner for sure. If I thought there was any chance it would be ok I woulda kept it. Damn. Coulda got my double batch done afterall! Started at 4 and finished at midnight as it was.

Thanks for the reassurance on the 2nd batch everyone, even if it comes with a reminder I blew it in dumping the first batch.

Thank God is was only $15 of grain though. I'd have probably started a thread before dumping it if it were the IIPA.

 

[brycelarson]

I figure that fermenter space is cheap - right? You can always go pick up a few more buckets, might as well take good notes and see what comes out the other end. If nothing else it's a learning experience. If it's terrible, oh well, you found that out. If not, well, good on you.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I figure that fermenter space is cheap - right? You can always go pick up a few more buckets, might as well take good notes and see what comes out the other end. If nothing else it's a learning experience. If it's terrible, oh well, you found that out. If not, well, good on you.

Not for me. I don't have the time or proximity during the day to swap out bottles in a swamp cooler and it's too hot to ferment ales with no basement in SoCal right now. So consequently I have to use a temp controlled chest freezer with 2 spots. That's all I can have going at a time and I try to keep 6 taps stocked with that space.

Everyone's situation is different I guess. If I had a basement I would probably have tried to complete that beer and ferment it.

Edit: but not to make excuses. I thought the beer was toast for sure and that was obviously an error in judgement. Live and learn.