Man I sure do hate the police...

[jpc]

Had one quite a few years before this that wasn't cool. I got clocked doing 38 in a 40. City cop wrote me for 38 in a 30.

...

These days, I don't get pulled over for speeding as I just don't speed. It's a pretty easy way to avoid it.

Based on your first experience, I'd say that the evidence shows that even driving the limit doesn't avoid getting accused of speeding. My experience is the same:

Years ago, I was driving back to the Twin Cities from Pacific Junction, Iowa, where I was attending a two-day "advanced driver training" event at Mid-America Motorplex. It was after dark on a Sunday night just north of Des Moines and my trusty Valentine One radar detector went off... radar ahead. I slowed down to the limit, set the cruise control, and continued to pick up blips from ahead of me. After about 20 miles of this, the cop slowed down to about 10 under the limit, at which time I quickly caught up to him and passed him. The minute I get back over into the right lane, he pulls me over. He gave me a written warning for "72 in a 65", even though my speed was never higher than 65 (as verified by GPS).

 

[Zul'jin]

About that faulty camera. I've complained. Others have complained. The city is aware. The camera is still there. No way they will admit their camera is faulty and remove it. Can you imagine? Admitting a traffic camera is wrong. Every traffic camera would be held in question. The city would be held in question. No way they can wear that egg. My bet is, they wait for the routine maintenance to come due and have it fixed without the records showing a repair due to faulty operation.

Traffic enforcement is 50/50; safety/money.

 

[Domminigan]

Based on your first experience, I'd say that the evidence shows that even driving the limit doesn't avoid getting accused of speeding.

True, but now that I actually look old enough to drive, I haven't had that issue. Back then I looked fourteen or fifteen. I was 18.

 

[jpc]

True, but now that I actually look old enough to drive, I haven't had that issue. Back then I looked fourteen or fifteen. I was 18.

My point is that even if you are doing everything 100% correctly, there is nothing to prevent a cop from writing you a ticket. I'm not saying that they are liars or cheats, but they certainly do make mistakes, and in my experience they are pig-headed enough to think they are infallible.

All puns intended, BTW...

 

[alpha_acid]

Both times I could have been doing the same thing 30 min earlier/later and it would be legal...

Nice, speeding a school zone perhaps!! Those little kids should learn to get out of the way!!

 

[Marius]

Do you have to study for being a policeman in the US?

Here, in the Basque Country, it's much harder to be an illiterate than a policeman.
We hear great stories about your policemen, they seem to be funny people.:cross:

 

[caphector]

I’ve gotten pulled over a few times, only gotten one ticket.

At least once, I slowed down to the speed limit before entering a tiny town. I knew the road was a bit twisty and it’s got bars right off it. No reason to go racing past any maybe hit someone. So I’m going along in the town, and someone pulls behind me. I figure it’s another late-night driver, and I loop back through the town to let him have a clear road. The car follows me and I shortly see that he’s got lights on top and go “D’oh. I just did something odd…” and right then he lights up and pulls me over. He was quite nice; I was going the speed limit, he just wanted to see why I’d looped back. No ticket.

My ticket involved blasting past a cop at 75 or so on a two-lane road. I got pulled over, failed at diplomacy, and got a ticket. Checked the ticket, checked the law, and it was a fair ticket.

 

[MeatyPortion]

I'm going to hate coming back to the US. Driving in Iraq is great. Fast as you want, wherever you want (except on US bases). Cops got better things to do than issue tickets.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Lived in my house for 5 months, just got my second traffic ticket in that time within 2 miles of it....never gotten a ticket before. These guys suck....hard.

Quit speeding.

 

[bluegrassbrewer]

I have been pulled over twice in the past six months by our local police (two different officers) while riding my bike. I commute to and from work most days by bicycle on roads with fairly heavy traffic. Both officers told me to get on the side walk and out of the street. One of them actually told me: "get your a** on the sidewalk where you belong". "Roads are for cars, not bikes". I showed both of them, in the copy of the state law I carry in my bag, where it is actually against the law in Kentucky for me to ride on the sidewalk and where by law I am required to ride in the street. The law plainly gives me the same right to use the road as a motor vehicle. The latest one actually told me that he didn't care what the law said, he was telling me to ride on the sidewalk. I told him he either needed to call his supervisor so that we could speak with him or he would have to arrest me, because there was no way I was riding on the sidewalk. He called a supervisor and 40 minutes later, I rode away down the street. He now routinely hangs out in my neighborhood (I see him almost every afternoon somewhere along my route) waiting for me to roll through a stop sign rather than coming to a complete stop so that he can write me a ticket.

 

[Brew-Happy]

I have been pulled over twice in the past six months by our local police (two different officers) while riding my bike. I commute to and from work most days by bicycle on roads with fairly heavy traffic. Both officers told me to get on the side walk and out of the street. One of them actually told me: "get your a** on the sidewalk where you belong". "Roads are for cars, not bikes". I showed both of them, in the copy of the state law I carry in my bag, where it is actually against the law in Kentucky for me to ride on the sidewalk and where by law I am required to ride in the street. The law plainly gives me the same right to use the road as a motor vehicle. The latest one actually told me that he didn't care what the law said, he was telling me to ride on the sidewalk. I told him he either needed to call his supervisor so that we could speak with him or he would have to arrest me, because there was no way I was riding on the sidewalk. He called a supervisor and 40 minutes later, I rode away down the street. He now routinely hangs out in my neighborhood (I see him almost every afternoon somewhere along my route) waiting for me to roll through a stop sign rather than coming to a complete stop so that he can write me a ticket.

Thank you for pointing that out to the officer! I rode a bike during college and it was sad to see so many ignorant bike riders that did not obey the law. It is the same in Texas and Georgia.

Glad you taught him a lesson and not the other way around. Good idea carrying around a copy like that.

 

[kornkob]

The problem with camera enforcement techniques is that it is NOT about safety. The cities are sold the systems based on how much revenue they will generate. This puts the cities in a position where they have expectations of a level of income and, if they aren't seeing that or are in need of additional income, there is pressure to manipulate the system to increase income.

The surest way, for instance, to improve safety at red lights is to increase the yellow light time. However, there are many instances of cities shortening those times after having installed red light cams.

He now routinely hangs out in my neighborhood (I see him almost every afternoon somewhere along my route) waiting for me to roll through a stop sign rather than coming to a complete stop so that he can write me a ticket.

He's doing the right thing for the wrong reasons--- bikes should get more tickets for their various moving violations.

 

[BlueSunshine]

I'm 25 and I've never got a single ticket for anything (including parking tickets). But lets be honest, every time you drive down the street you break about 14 laws. Whether it's going 1 mile over the speed limit, having a small light out on your license plate, or driving too long in the left lane. So the whole "don't break the law and you won't get harassed" is pretty much out the window as soon as you put your car in Drive.

Or you could be like me and get pulled over when you're 18 because you're coming home from a concert. Then the cops try to pin drug charges (probably adding intent to sell) on you in a 3 hour ordeal. Just one of my many cases of the cops not working to serve and protect that I've dealt with in my time.

 

[springer]

Do you have to study for being a policeman in the US?

Here, in the Basque Country, it's much harder to be an illiterate than a policeman.
We hear great stories about your policemen, they seem to be funny people.:cross:

I don't know about everywhere but around here you either need to have at least an associates degree or military service. When I left we had 4 lawyers and several in the course of becoming lawyers on our department . While they weren't lawyers at the time of hire they became so while working, our department paid for all college courses that were law related.

 

[Airborneguy]

I am a traffic cop

And I love it, but if you really think that most cops care in some way about the game of giving tickets, you are kidding yourself. People get away from me all of the time because of traffic condition (ie I can't catch up to them), and I could careless. I go back and get someone else.

I've also been doing this game long enough to not care what people say about me and get my blood pressure all pumped up. Somehow, my doctor keeps saying every time I go that my blood pressure is ridiculously low, so I must be doing something right.

BUT there is one thing I get annoyed by. I think it is insane when people see a police car doing something (speeding, lights on, running redlights) and immediately jump to conclusions.

Do you have a police radio in your car? Are you hearing what I am hearing? Did you get the call of "man with a knife", and then the first officer on the scene says "No further, no knife"? If not, then when a cop car goes speeding past you with its lights on, then suddenly slows and shuts the lights, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Or while you are driving down the street and I slow down/speed up suddenly, could it possibly be the guy I just saw a block up who I know is wanted? Or maybe the plate I just ran comes back to a stolen car and I need to get behind it?

When I am on the clock, I rarely ever have a reason to be anywhere unless I am given a job or initiating one, so why the hell would a break a law needlessly? I'm not saying cops never do it, but you, sitting in your car with no police radio, honestly have no idea what you are or are not witnessing at all.

 

[Airborneguy]

Oh, and PS... I think camera lights actually cause more problems (at least how they are set up here). They cause people to slam on their breaks and make sudden stops, one of the biggest reasons for accidents.

Also, on my job, if we get a camera ticket, we have to explain why, and if we don't have a justified reason, we have to pay it.

 

[bluedragoon85]

Where I live (South side of the border) cops really suck hard... I don't trust a cop for nothing over here and try to avoid them as much as possible. They don't enforce laws at all and just do as they please. You can easily buy your way out of a ticket. I have never done so, but my friends do it all the time. They try to scare you so you cough up the money and if they see you aren't gonna budge they sometimes just let you go because they don't want to go through the trouble of writting you a ticket. What really pisses me off is that cops over here are always speeding for no f... reason. I see more cops speeding than anyone else. If they see a red light and they don't want to stop they will turn on the lights and zoom right through. I'm always scared a cop is going to crash into me or I into them because they just catch you by surprise. So yeah, cops suck really hard over here.

 

[kornkob]

Oh, and PS... I think camera lights actually cause more problems (at least how they are set up here). They cause people to slam on their breaks and make sudden stops, one of the biggest reasons for accidents.

And that's made worse when the municipality shortens the yellow light time.

 

[Ksosh]

He's doing the right thing for the wrong reasons--- bikes should get more tickets for their various moving violations.

My outlook is that bikers need to choose one: person or vehicle. If you go the 'person' route, use the sidewalk and be careful. If you go the vehicle route, go THE RIGHT WAY on the road, and follow the stop lights/signs just like any other car. Whenever a bike comes up a one-way road the wrong way when I'm going the right way, I want to just plow into the f*cker.

 

[david_42]

My outlook is that bikers need to choose one: person or vehicle.

The law in most states does not give riders a choice. They are vehicles and are required to operate on roads or designated bike paths. But wrong way is wrong way and in California, operating a bicycle while drunk puts points on your DL. When I was in the Navy, we had a couple guys on the base lose their DL this way.

 

[kjung]

Just a short (sorta) rant here. I was pulling out of a parking lot the other day, looked down the street, and saw only one car, about a block or so away. I could tell that it was a squad car, BTW. I pulled into the left turn lane and watched in my rear view as the squad pulled into the lane behind me.
As soon as I made the turn, the lights came on. Long story short, I was written up for "not coming to a complete stop, which is required by state law, regardless of whether there is a stop sign or not."...according to the cop.
Not understanding how there can be a law requiring a complete stop, or ANY kind of stop for that matter, when there is NO sign (which there isn't), I kept my mouth shut.
When I got home, I looked through the Rules Of The Road, which obviously says nothing about this. I then looked up the statute on line. Imagine my surprise when I saw, in black and white, that it says specifically that there has to be a stop sign present!
This is my second moving violation(the first being my first ever speeding ticket[6 miles over the posted limit !!!]) in the last three years living in this town, more than I recieved in over 20 years living and driving in Chicago !
In 11 years living in this town, I have had ONE positive dealing with the local cops !!! This just furthers my belief that small-town cops, for the most part, have nothing better to do than be a$$holes and try to make up their own rules.

 

[MeatyPortion]

You think regular cops are bad? Military Police are far, far worse. I think every MOS hates them above all others.

 

[kornkob]

You think regular cops are bad? Military Police are far, far worse. I think every MOS hates them above all others.

Of course, when you don't bother to hide your contempt that doesn't encourage the MP to use his discretion and overlook a specific violation.

(<--former MP)

It's also notable that MP's don't have that pesky Bill of Rights to worry about as they go about their business the UCMJ lets MPs do all kinds of **** cops would have to lie about to get away with.

 

[The Pol]

I think this thread is funny.

If you are breaking the law, duh... well your tax dollars are at work, they wear uniforms and tote guns. They protect you from other idiots out there, and they protect others, from you.

This is what some call, a stupid tax. This is why we have speedometers.

 

[kornkob]

Just a short (sorta) rant here. I was pulling out of a parking lot the other day, looked down the street, and saw only one car, about a block or so away. I could tell that it was a squad car, BTW. I pulled into the left turn lane and watched in my rear view as the squad pulled into the lane behind me.
As soon as I made the turn, the lights came on. Long story short, I was written up for "not coming to a complete stop, which is required by state law, regardless of whether there is a stop sign or not."...according to the cop.
Not understanding how there can be a law requiring a complete stop, or ANY kind of stop for that matter, when there is NO sign (which there isn't), I kept my mouth shut.
When I got home, I looked through the Rules Of The Road, which obviously says nothing about this. I then looked up the statute on line. Imagine my surprise when I saw, in black and white, that it says specifically that there has to be a stop sign present!

Rules of the Road you found may not have been addressing the specific situation you were in.

IIRC: before you enter a public throughfare (leave a parking lot or driveway) you are required to come to a complete stop and signal your intention.

 

[MeatyPortion]

Of course, when you don't bother to hide your contempt that doesn't encourage the MP to use his discretion and overlook a specific violation.

(<--former MP)

It's also notable that MP's don't have that pesky Bill of Rights to worry about as they go about their business the UCMJ lets MPs do all kinds of **** cops would have to lie about to get away with.

I knew this would draw one of you out.

 

[kjung]

Rules of the Road you found may not have been addressing the specific situation you were in.

IIRC: before you enter a public throughfare (leave a parking lot or driveway) you are required to come to a complete stop and signal your intention.

This is c&p'ed directly from the state website :

A person who drives a vehicle shall stop at an intersection where a stop sign is erected at one (1) or more entrances to a through highway that are not a part of the through highway and proceed cautiously, yielding to vehicles that are not required to stop.

There are NO stop signs at that entrance to the "highway", which is simply a major residential/commercial road as it goes through town.
There was no need to "yield", because the nearest car was over one hundred yards away.

 

[kornkob]

A driveway is not considered an intersection so that quote isn't relevant.

Noting that you are in Illinois I looked around for the code but instead found this nify handbook: http://www.sos.state.il.us/publications/rules_of_the_road/rr_chap04.html#special_stops

"In urban areas, drivers must come to a complete stop before entering the sidewalk area when moving out of an alley, building, private road or driveway. If there is no sidewalk, stop at a point nearest the street or roadway where there is a view of approaching traffic. After stopping, yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and all vehicles."

This is a common rule. I cna't find the specific code for IL but here's Wisconsin's code:
WI Chapter: 346.47(1)
(1) The operator of a vehicle emerging from an alley or about to cross or enter a highway from any point of access other than another highway shall stop such vehicle immediately prior to moving on to the sidewalk or on to the sidewalk area extending across the path of such vehicle and shall yield the right-of-way to any pedestrian, bicyclist, or rider of an electric personal assistive mobility device, and upon crossing or entering the roadway shall yield the right-of-way to all vehicles approaching on such roadway.

 

[Airborneguy]

That is nitpicking either way... the only way I would give a summons like that is if the person is known to me somehow, or if the vehicle aroused some suspicion and I needed to justify the stop.

The old "go catch rapists and murderers" line doesn't apply to car stops, but "go catch speeders instead of people who slow instead of stop leaving a parking lot" does actually make some sense.

 

[kornkob]

Agreed--- I was addressing the contention that he wasn't in violation-- which is false.

I imagine that the driver's attitude during the stop may have been a contributing factor.

Attitude changes the outcome story:
When I was in High School the guy across the street backed into my girlfriend's car and then drove off (after looking out the window and asking if everyone was okay). By the time the cop arrive, the guy was back.

The officer was just going to have us all exchange insurance information but when the cop went to the house the guy's elderly mom and dad said that the car hadn't moved all day and that their son wasn't home. THey went roudn and round about where he was and why the car had dmage on it if it hadn't moved....

Then the cop saw mom talking to someone in the kitchen the jig was up. The cop walked over to mom, looked at the son hiding behind the door and said, 'If your son isn't home do you need me to arrest this intruder? No? OH! He's your son. Well, you get your insurance information out and I'm going to go get my ticket book and we'll exchange paperwork."

The cop spent the next 20 minutes writing tickets for everything he could find in his 3 ring binder filled with violation standards. Unsafe backing, leaving the scene, failure to report, operating without a license (the guy didn't lost his physical license though he had a current license on file), obstruction.... he was writing paper for anything he could think of and kept coming over and asking us questions (Was the car in drive or park when it was struck? Were you in the car or did you have one foot on the ground? Did you answer him when he asked if anyone was hurt?) looking for details he could use to paper them up some more. Sgt Thompson was his name.

 

[Fingers]

I imagine that the driver's attitude during the stop may have been a contributing factor.

In violation of equitable application of the law. You can't legally bribe an officer but if you can bat your baby blues, meekly submit to his/her will, or any of many other non-tangible rewards that directly benefit the officer then the law changes.

I'm going to court to argue someone else's traffic violation in a few months and I have every confidence that if I can't get it completely dismissed at the very least I'll be able to plead the thing down to next to nothing. It will cost me nothing other than some research and preparation. Another person ticketed for exactly the same offense will pay full price because they get nervous speaking publicly, or don't understand the nuances of the law, or can't present their case well, or some other factor that has nothing at all to do with the offense.

Forgive my bitterness. I got into an argument with a racist today and I'm feeling a little pissy at unequal treatment of citizens. This person hates Muslims simply for who they are. He couldn't pose one reasonable argument to support his bias and yet wouldn't recognize that his attitude is misguided. I'm a little drunk too.

 

[kornkob]

In violation of equitable application of the law. You can't legally bribe an officer but if you can bat your baby blues, meekly submit to his/her will, or any of many other non-tangible rewards that directly benefit the officer then the law changes.

Like it or not when you interact with people, doing so in a manner that is respectful and non confrontational will typically net you a more positive outcome.

 

[Fingers]

Like it or not when you interact with people, doing so in a manner that is respectful and non confrontational will typically net you a more positive outcome.

Yeah, I know. I follow the same philosophy. Only a fool would give a cop a hard time whether they're guilty or not. I wasn't trying to attack you or anyone else. In retrospect I've always advocated the human element in the justice system with regards to sentencing. Discretion on the part of law enforcement has to be part of that.

Please disregard my earlier tone. I was feeling all self righteous and just a little sad at some of the ignorance I tried to dispel earlier with my buddy.

 

[Airborneguy]

There is a human element to everything, and it goes both ways. Sometimes, yours, sometimes, mine

 

[kjung]

A driveway is not considered an intersection so that quote isn't relevant.

I am merely quoting the code that she wrote me up for. With a copy of that statute and pics of where my "violation" occured, I'm pretty sure that I can beat this in court.

Noting that you are in Illinois I looked around for the code but instead found this nify handbook: http://www.sos.state.il.us/publications/rules_of_the_road/rr_chap04.html#special_stops

Actually, I'm NOT in Illinois. I like to say that I'm in the "S.E. 'Burbs"...about 20 min. from the city.

Agreed--- I was addressing the contention that he wasn't in violation-- which is false.

I imagine that the driver's attitude during the stop may have been a contributing factor.

Truth be told, I was QUITE polite during the stop, as I always am when dealing with the police, unless their attitude warrants a different approach. I have a number of friends who are cops in the city, and have the utmost respect for what thet have to deal with on the job. In fact, when I run into them at a bar, I refuse to let them buy, knowing what they make compared to what I do.
However, even if I HAD been beligerent, that doesn't excuse her making up and twisting the laws.