Make IPA Clear Again

[Schlenkerla]

Updated

I hearby pledge the following in 2020.

1) One IPA on tap.

2) All Barley Malt Grain Bills (invert is ok)

3) To bitter over 40 IBU.

4) Make all my late additions during the boil.

5) Pitch high flocculation yeast.

Pick your color; golden, amber, brown or dark brown.

.

Even though I do prefer a clear over hazy beers I cant join you either;

I normally add some amount of sugar like 5% or so in my IPAs to dry them out.
A flame out and/or whirlpool addition would also be common for my IPAs.

I meet #3 but not by much, I shoot for 50 or 60IBUs.

Not sure what I would do with my NEIPA-ish IPA with a couple pounds of wheat I need to keg too.

But like you said whatever floats your boat or fills your fermentor. That is the beauty of being a home brewer you can set your own standards.

Revert back to this. Sounds like after the Mash Tun Act they allowed sugars in pale ales. .

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/628857/

 

[ba-brewer]

I use corn sugar. Google says it is mostly glucose so if that is right it should be similar to a bland golden invert.

 

[applescrap]

Haha, yes, thats my brew pledge and 2020 brewing resolutions.

Yes, technically I have never made a "real" extract. After a mr beer start I went straight to 50 pound sacks and havent looked back. I use a couple hundred pounds of grain a year. I would like to make basic brewings 15 min pale ales and stuff but extract seems expensive even in bulk. I might bite the bullet and buy a 50 lb sack of briess dme, just forbthe convenience. I would do no boil neipas with it and 15 minute brews. I want some very bad for that reason. Seems like an easy way to keep a big pipeline going.

So you pledge to do whatever floats your boat. - lol

I forget. Are you All Grain?

 

[ESBrewer]

I use corn sugar. Google says it is mostly glucose so if that is right it should be similar to a bland golden invert.

You're right, brewing wise those two would be very similar, although chemically golden syrup is a partly inverted mixture that consists of sucrose, glucose and fructose. Those are all fermentable by yeast, although the yeast has to break the bond between sugar monomers when it ferments sucrose. Darker invert syrups ("#3") contain more Maillard reaction products and other impurities (depending on sugar source) that add color and a bit of additional tastes when compared to pure glucose.

 

[ba-brewer]

You're right, brewing wise those two would be very similar, although chemically golden syrup is a partly inverted mixture that consists of sucrose, glucose and fructose. Those are all fermentable by yeast, although the yeast has to break the bond between sugar monomers when it ferments sucrose. Darker invert syrups ("#3") contain more Maillard reaction products and other impurities (depending on sugar source) that add color and a bit of additional tastes when compared to pure glucose.

Is the mixed bag of sugars in golden syrup only in the commercial variety like Lyles, or is it also in the home made stuff?
I was thinking the home made golden syrup(maybe wrong name) would/could be fully inverted.

I know invert is more traditional but I am after the glucose to help with ester production so corn sugar gives me that without any additional work. Or at least that was the thought process.

 

[Schlenkerla]

You're right, brewing wise those two would be very similar, although chemically golden syrup is a partly inverted mixture that consists of sucrose, glucose and fructose. Those are all fermentable by yeast, although the yeast has to break the bond between sugar monomers when it ferments sucrose. Darker invert syrups ("#3") contain more Maillard reaction products and other impurities (depending on sugar source) that add color and a bit of additional tastes when compared to pure glucose.

Darker Color but Still Clear!!!!

 

[ESBrewer]

Is the mixed bag of sugars in golden syrup only in the commercial variety like Lyles, or is it also in the home made stuff?
I was thinking the home made golden syrup(maybe wrong name) would/could be fully inverted.

I know invert is more traditional but I am after the glucose to help with ester production so corn sugar gives me that without any additional work. Or at least that was the thought process.

It could be fully hydrolyzed (meaning that it is a mixture of glucose and fructose only) or it could contain sucrose, too. It depends on product and how exactly the process is executed. The residual sucrose will affect the physical properties (tendency to crystallize at different temperatures etc.) and perceived sweetness. Many commercial products have some level of sucrose in the mix. At home it is a bit hard to detect when each and every sucrose molecule has been hydrolyzed to glucose & fructose so there could be some sucrose, too.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Except our grievance isn't with the cloudy IPAs themselves.
For me it's the "beer people" who only like juice AND think it's the best beer there is lacking knowledge on any/all other styles

Which accounts for maybe 1% of the NEIPA drinkers. I dont know a single person who fits this description.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I just explained why I care. Did you read the whole post?
You go ahead and field questions about beers from people who only like sludge beer and see how you find it. At work mind you not just for fun.

I enjoy educating people.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Which accounts for maybe 1% of the NEIPA drinkers. I dont know a single person who fits this description.

PKU....

He works at a bar runs across these jamokes frequently. He finds it annoying as would I.

I have a short tolerance for people who think they know beer but they really don't. While they're entitled to their opinion to what they like and dislike. I tire quickly of hearing why and what's wrong with said beer. Rather than be a dyck, I just act like I didn't hear it. I'm not talking about trying my beer. It's any beer where they have an opinion not far beyond the metal capacity to identify a cup of coffee.

I enjoy educating people.

I do sometimes... Sometimes I just want to enjoy my beer.

More than once I thought, where's some good old caster oil when you need it?

See: Uses - Medicine.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castor_oil

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Now I really hate to ask a dumb question (Well .. . . not really) But, I usually peruse this particular topic as entertainment while imbibing, and perhaps I have misunderstood the topic at hand. But it seems to me it all boils down to apple pie. I LOVE apple pie. Greatest pie on earth, and the most popular pie in America to boot. But I know there are folks that can't stand it - and that is fine; MORE FOR ME-right. But then a feller come along with a big old slab of peach pie, and tells me," I got me some new apple pie here." Now I look at and I can see it ain't apple pie. It don't smell the same, look the same, taste the same, it is different. So I say, "That ain't apple pie." And Mr. Peach says, "To hell it ain't!!! It is apple pie - real apple pie - apple pie with REAL apple pie flavors; not that tasteless bland old fashion apple pie!" Now I say, " But it ain't really! It's pie fore sure - but it ain't apple pie, its totally different." At which point Mr Peach gets totally self righteous, calls me names just because I am sliding gracelessly into geezerhood, and tells me that I am a pieracist because i won't acknowledge that his peach pie is just as much an apple pie as my old fashioned apple pie. Then he tells me I am stunting his growth and limiting his prospects and generally demeaning pie in general, because i won't like his pie as much as mine . . . . Or is this different than that?

((((( ( I would post an ironic picture of some one crying with snarky commentary and such right here - but being a boomer I probably don't know how)))))))

If you want to use this analogy, I'd say you should replace peach pie with Dutch apple pie. What makes apple pie an apple pie is apples and they're both apple pies even though they taste and look very different.

What makes an IPA what it is are hops. Both west coast and new England IPAs are very hoppy... the hops are just used differently. Im sure that was the rationale when they were first dubbed IPAs and i wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a completely different category after more than 15 years of being IPAs.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I just want to brew the best hoppy beers I can. For me most of them end up being hazy. Haze is never the goal, just happens to be the end result.

Generally no wheat or oats, plenty of hops in the kettle, FG around 3-3.5, generally Sulfate heavy although keeping the Ca a little lower. Highly flocculent yeast, although it’s English or sometimes Cali/English blend. Dry hopping after fermentation always. However the whirlpool and dry hop loads end up being rather large and the beers have tons of hop flavor and especially aroma. Generally new school hops although often a little nugget, chinook, Sterling, crystal thrown in for complexity. Enough bitterness to balance them out yet a nice soft profile to make them pleasurable to drink.

Never ever fined. Often hazy, but not always.

I have two beers on tap now. Both exactly the same recipe, water, and process from start to finish. One is crystal clear and one is incredibly hazy. Only difference is the hops. One has hops really high in polyphenols, one doesn’t.

Just make great hoppy beer, who cares what it looks like.

These sound glorious and well conceived.

 

[Schlenkerla]

These sound glorious and well conceived.

You should be more obnoxious and more beastly like your avatar. Looks like false advertising!!!

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Extract is also a great way to brew when your space is limited. Extract comes in different colors and you can even get wheat extract. Dry is better and easier to use than liquid, in my opinion

And guess what? Extract makes clear beer. BIAB did not once in 4 times I tried it. I now use my nylon bag to line my mash tun and create an extra layer of filtration. Gotta say it make cleaning out the spent grain much easier.

What????? I mash in a bag in a cooler...squeeze the bag etc. I brewed the centennial blonde and it was perfectly clear. The wort in the boil kettle wasn't, but the final product was crystal. Im far from alone on this.

 

[gunhaus]

If you want to use this analogy, I'd say you should replace peach pie with Dutch apple pie. What makes apple pie an apple pie is apples and they're both apple pies even though they taste and look very different.

What makes an IPA what it is are hops. Both west coast and new England IPAs are very hoppy... the hops are just used differently. Im sure that was the rationale when they were first dubbed IPAs and i wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a completely different category after more than 15 years of being IPAs.

I am not going to hold my breath about ANYTHING in this thread
As for your apple pie assertion: These beers are indeed brewed with hops, and also malted barley, and water and yeast. I just brewed with those same ingredients! It was my long time favorite stout recipe, but still, it has all the same basic ingredients as an IPA - So I am now calling it Johns Northern Michigan India Pale Ale.(JNMIPA) It is MY NEW STYLE - Not clear I know, and its not pale, but it does have hops, barley, water, and yeast, they are just used differently: so NOW it is my new pale ale. Next week I am brewing my new Northern Michigan Irish Red India Pale Ale . . . This is fun!!!!!

 

[Schlenkerla]

I am not going to hold my breath about ANYTHING in this thread
As for your apple pie assertion: These beers are indeed brewed with hops, and also malted barley, and water and yeast. I just brewed with those same ingredients! It was my long time favorite stout recipe, but still, it has all the same basic ingredients as an IPA - So I am now calling it Johns Northern Michigan India Pale Ale.(JNMIPA) It is MY NEW STYLE - Not clear I know, and its not pale, but it does have hops, barley, water, and yeast, they are just used differently: so NOW it is my new pale ale. Next week I am brewing my new Northern Michigan Irish Red India Pale Ale . . . This is fun!!!!!

I think with time there will be a separate category.

Look at the last BJCP style it's New England Pale Ale with Provisional classification. - At least according to Brewfather. - I have BJCP style guidelines turned on. - No news to us, they claim it to be a mockery of the IPA due to its ever evolving style.

Per your excellent pie analogy....

It's not really an India Pale Ale unless you boiled it with a handful of curry like coriander, cumin, fenugreek, mustard, chili, black pepper and salt. Then kettle soured it for 48 hours with yogurt. That way it can be exported from India to Great Britain in spent rum barrels. Cause we all know them limeys go gaga for curry. They're all curry-whores.

PM Me if you want me Curried Cock Ale. It goes a bit like this but with curry and yogurt;

"Take ten gallons of ale, and a large cock, the older the better; parboil the cock, flay him, and stamp him in a stone mortar till his bones are broken (you must craw and gut him when you flay him); then put the cock into two quarts of sack, and put it to three pounds of raisins of the sun stoned, some blades of mace, and a few cloves; put all these into a canvas bag, and a little before you find the ale has done working, put the ale and bag together into a vessel; in a week or nine days time bottle it up; fill the bottle but just above the neck, and give the same time to ripen as other ale."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_ale

 

[Schlenkerla]

Forgot this...

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I am not going to hold my breath about ANYTHING in this thread
As for your apple pie assertion: These beers are indeed brewed with hops, and also malted barley, and water and yeast. I just brewed with those same ingredients! It was my long time favorite stout recipe, but still, it has all the same basic ingredients as an IPA - So I am now calling it Johns Northern Michigan India Pale Ale.(JNMIPA) It is MY NEW STYLE - Not clear I know, and its not pale, but it does have hops, barley, water, and yeast, they are just used differently: so NOW it is my new pale ale. Next week I am brewing my new Northern Michigan Irish Red India Pale Ale . . . This is fun!!!!!

Its the featuring of hops that makes them IPAs, but you lnew that. No need to be a ****** about this.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I think with time there will be a separate category.

Look at the last BJCP style it's New England Pale Ale with Provisional classification. - At least according to Brewfather. - I have BJCP style guidelines turned on. - No news to us, they claim it to be a mockery of the IPA due to its ever evolving style.

Per your excellent pie analogy....

It's not really an India Pale Ale unless you boiled it with a handful of curry like coriander, cumin, fenugreek, mustard, chili, black pepper and salt. Then kettle soured it for 48 hours with yogurt. That way it can be exported from India to Great Britain in spent rum barrels. Cause we all know them limeys go gaga for curry. They're all curry-whores.

PM Me if you want me Curried Cock Ale. It goes a bit like this but with curry and yogurt;

"Take ten gallons of ale, and a large cock, the older the better; parboil the cock, flay him, and stamp him in a stone mortar till his bones are broken (you must craw and gut him when you flay him); then put the cock into two quarts of sack, and put it to three pounds of raisins of the sun stoned, some blades of mace, and a few cloves; put all these into a canvas bag, and a little before you find the ale has done working, put the ale and bag together into a vessel; in a week or nine days time bottle it up; fill the bottle but just above the neck, and give the same time to ripen as other ale."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cock_ale

The only people who care about BJCP classification are people brewing competatively. Even if they come up with a new category, you'll still see them labeled as IPAs on menus and bottles/cans. Shrug...i don't really care. I brew, drink and enjoy almost all styles, so it's all good with me.

I think the original examples of NEIPAs were called that because the brewers were experimenting with where in the process and how much hops were used in an IPA recipe.

 

[gunhaus]

Its the featuring of hops that makes them IPAs, but you lnew that. No need to be a ****** about this.

Sensitive much!!!! No need FOR YOU to be a ****** about this - last I looked this thread had moved pretty far away from ANYTHING resembling a serious conversation! So lighten up a scoshie bit mmmmkay ! I understand the hazy crazies are pretty passionate about their sort of IPA; but no need to get all worked up - I don't think any of us are REALLY going to take your precious nomenclature away!!!!

And just for the record it is the PALE that makes them India PALE Ales. There is a clue to this in the name I think

 

[Schlenkerla]

Its the featuring of hops that makes them IPAs, but you lnew that. No need to be a ****** about this.

I didn't get that sense other than general aggravation about style bastardization.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Sensitive much!!!! No need FOR YOU to be a ****** about this - last I looked this thread had moved pretty far away from ANYTHING resembling a serious conversation! So lighten up a scoshie bit mmmmkay ! I understand the hazy crazies are pretty passionate about their sort of IPA; but no need to get all worked up - I don't think any of us are REALLY going to take your precious nomenclature away!!!!

And just for the record it is the PALE that makes them India PALE Ales. There is a clue to this in the name I think

....

 

[Schlenkerla]

Things that are pale....

 

[SEndorf]

….. but no need to get all worked up

 

[SEndorf]

Ron Pattinson always has an interesting take, and writing style on... well.. everything..

IPA "inflation"...

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2011/08/why-pa.html

 

[NewJersey]

Finally had that SN hoppy anniversary beer last night. Terrific and clear.
west coast style IPAs have been popping up again from some local NJ breweries.
praise the lawdy

 

[Blazinlow86]

Finally had that SN hoppy anniversary beer last night. Terrific and clear.
west coast style IPAs have been popping up again from some local NJ breweries.
praise the lawdy

There definitely out there you just need to know where to look. Sierra Nevada seems a good place to start. Cheers

 

[Nagorg]

Finally had that SN hoppy anniversary beer last night. Terrific and clear.
west coast style IPAs have been popping up again from some local NJ breweries.
praise the lawdy

Very much looking forward to this beer!

 

[gwinn758]

90 gallons hopped with Amarillo/Simcoe. Also had twenty pounds of flaked oats.

 

[Mer-man]

90 gallons hopped with Amarillo/Simcoe. Also had twenty pounds of flaked oats.View attachment 660736

Nice Color. What’s the rest of the grist and OG?

 

[gwinn758]

Nice Color. What’s the rest of the grist and OG?

2 row and Munich / 1.060

 

[NewJersey]

90 gallons hopped with Amarillo/Simcoe. Also had twenty pounds of flaked oats.View attachment 660736

90 gallons??!?!?!!???

 

[Qhrumphf]

Dunno too many homebrewers with a 3bbl system. Hell a bunch of pros operate on smaller. Club system?

 

[Blazinlow86]

90 gallons hopped with Amarillo/Simcoe. Also had twenty pounds of flaked oats.View attachment 660736

Whataya know a clear IPA with oats in it eh. There goes that theory lol. Cheers

 

[gwinn758]

Dunno too many homebrewers with a 3bbl system. Hell a bunch of pros operate on smaller. Club system?

I purchased a 3bbl kettle and mash tun several years ago planning to open up my own place. Eventually decided against it and sold it. The buyer offered me the job as brewer. Just started brewing about a month ago getting ready to open, Upsizing all my HB recipes.

 

[day_trippr]

Congrats on the new job! And feel free to plug your employer's establishment

Cheers!

 

[gwinn758]

The Thin Brew Line Brewing Company in Virginia Beach.

 

[applescrap]

Had two clear ipas tonight from my hometown. Odells ipa and vodoo ranger from new Belgian. Meh. But at 3 or 4 a pint cant complain. They dont have anything better so this is what you get. They do have shake on tap which is so cool. I love shake.

 

[GnenieGone]

That sounds like a win-win! Brewing on equipment you bought with someone else's money....[emoji106]

Just read up on the brewery. Great cause and brewery charter. I'm an Emergency Response Team member at my company. We've had some disasters. Can't imagine doing it for a living.

I purchased a 3bbl kettle and mash tun several years ago planning to open up my own place. Eventually decided against it and sold it. The buyer offered me the job as brewer. Just started brewing about a month ago getting ready to open, Upsizing all my HB recipes.

 

[gwinn758]

That sounds like a win-win! Brewing on equipment you bought with someone else's money....[emoji106]

Just read up on the brewery. Great cause and brewery charter. I'm an Emergency Response Team member at my company. We've had some disasters. Can't imagine doing it for a living.

It was a good job, did 31 years. The brewery is kind off a dream job and helps me pay for my kid's college.