Make IPA Clear Again

[Blazinlow86]

Whitney credited the company’s return to growth to Hazy Little Thing, a year-round New England-style IPA that launched last year and is already the company’s No. 4 brand. According to IRI, Hazy Little Thing IPA finished the year with more than $24 million in dollar sales.

 

[shoreman]

It's still the "the company’s No. 4 brand", that's what we were talking about. There are 3 other non-hazy beers ahead of that still holding SN's portfolio.

 

[Blazinlow86]

"Whitney credited the company’s return to growth to Hazy Little Thing"

Reads to me like the hazy beers saved the day. Cheers

 

[shoreman]

"Whitney credited the company’s return to growth to Hazy Little Thing"

Reads to me like the hazy beers saved the day. Cheers

There are 3 brands ahead of the Hazy IPA, that means they outsell the Hazy Little Thing in BBls. He then went on to say that:

“About mid-year that will level off and it will be up to new packaging and hopefully velocity gains to continue to grow that brand.”

I'm not sure what will happen long term with Hazys, but there is a reason that alot of brewers like Night Shift (an original in the space) are diversifying. Heck I saw some Night Shift Seltzers the other day at the store.

My point from my previous posts is that it would not be a good idea to place all your bets on Hazy IPA as a startup brewer and so many are. You're too late to the game IMO, that's why the larger craft brewers are diversifying.

 

[Blazinlow86]

There are 3 brands ahead of the Hazy IPA, that means they outsell the Hazy Little Thing in BBls. He then went on to say that:

“About mid-year that will level off and it will be up to new packaging and hopefully velocity gains to continue to grow that brand.”

I'm not sure what will happen long term with Hazys, but there is a reason that alot of brewers like Night Shift (an original in the space) are diversifying. Heck I saw some Night Shift Seltzers the other day at the store.

My point from my previous posts is that it would not be a good idea to place all your bets on Hazy IPA as a startup brewer and so many are. You're too late to the game IMO, that's why the larger craft brewers are diversifying.

With this new info it seems the issue at hand is solved for the OP. Stick to Sierra Nevada ipas if you only like the clear ones until the haze craze dies down. You have a 75% chance of getting what you wanted lol. Cheers

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

How do you get ignored? I feel I am being ignored if I am not being ignored too!

Remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're *not* out to get you!

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Sierra Nevada is an amazing brewery. Their SNPA is the standard-bearer. The Torpedo IPA is a classic example. Celebration is fantastic. Their Kellerweis is great. I've got an aged Bigfoot that I need to get around to drinking sometime. Yet i don't often buy Sierra Nevada beer...

The problem Sierra Nevada has is that in a market that only cares about what is "new", they're not new.

Hazy Little Thing might have stemmed that "new" itch, plus being Sierra Nevada they had nationwide distribution lined up. So it doesn't surprise me that it jumped up towards the top of their list in sales. I bought a couple of six-packs when it was common at Costco, whereas I didn't often buy SNPA even though it's a great beer.

 

[SEndorf]

Will you guys stop with the civility and exchange of interesting information, and get this thread back on track? geeez…

 

[schematix]

SNPA could be my 1 and only beer if it were reasonably priced. It's $9/6 pack on sale here. There's some pretty fancy stuff available at that price point. If they'd do $20 cases i'd be all-in.

 

[Schlenkerla]

SNPA could be my 1 and only beer if it were reasonably priced. It's $9/6 pack on sale here. There's some pretty fancy stuff available at that price point. If they'd do $20 cases i'd be all-in.

If it had to be only one beer..... Hmm

Big Sky IPA or Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA. [emoji848]

Prolly go with DFH 60MIPA.

One factoid about the 60 Minute moniker. Sam Calagione put this hockey game on his Sabco Brew Magic BK. The game vibrates for 60 minutes on a slight incline adding small amounts of pellet hops through the goal posts into the BK. Obviously 90 and 120 is the same principle.

 

[schematix]

Prolly go with DFH 60MIPA.

I'm a fan of the DFH 60/90 IPAs but i couldn't commit to them as a daily drinkers.

SNPA is a great balance of hops, alcohol and drinkability. It works for quick drinking, pairs well with food, is flavorful yet not overly filling. Not many beers can claim that.

DFH 90 was the gold standard for big DIPA for a long time. I still like it, but it hasn't been priced according to its competition either so i typically pass. Last time i had it there were 5 bottles in a choose-your-own-6-pack-for-$10. So i got the 5 plus some other random beer. Was extremely drunk by myself that night.

 

[Wayne1]

Use Summit - (Orange) or Sorachi Ace (Lemon). Then flaked rice!

That will yield more Garlic and Dill. Great if you want to make a pickle beer

 

[bwible]

[QUOTE

Seems to me that alot of these recent techniques like BIAB and NEIPA have just arisen out of laziness.

My NHC medals disagree. Is this clear enough Boomer? I’ll get off you’re lawn now.

View attachment 659053

I’ve been a homebrewer for over 30 years. I have NHC medals too. And a very long line of first place blue ribbons from a number of different competitions. I also used to own a homebrew shop. I also took and passed the BJCP exam and have been a beer judge, though I haven’t judged for several years. So you are you are not talking to somebody who doesn’t know.

I don’t own the shop anymore. Its a very tough business to own and run. First, its such a niche hobby. A very small percentage of people brew. When you own a pizza place, everybody eats pizza. When you own a homebrew shop you have limited customers.

You also have online competition from big companies that are selling things for what you are buying them for because they can buy in big quantities and get big price discounts not available to the small shops.

Then the brew clubs get together and buy grain and stuff in bulk on their own. And after the store goes out of business they complain they don’t have a local shop anymore.

There have been 5 shops in my area over the last 20 years or so. Most have changed owners at least once before all going out of business. I have to drive an hour and a half now to go to my “local” homebrew shop.

 

[bwible]

/me slaps bwible with a wet trout

BIAB isn't laziness, it's a space efficient way of making good, clear beer when you only have the three square meters of space the SWAMBO allows.

Extract is also a great way to brew when your space is limited. Extract comes in different colors and you can even get wheat extract. Dry is better and easier to use than liquid, in my opinion

And guess what? Extract makes clear beer. BIAB did not once in 4 times I tried it. I now use my nylon bag to line my mash tun and create an extra layer of filtration. Gotta say it make cleaning out the spent grain much easier.

 

[Blazinlow86]

I have NHC medals too. And a very long line of first place blue ribbons from a number of different competitions. I also used to own a homebrew shop. So you are you are not talking to somebody who doesn’t know.

And no, that beer is not clear. Looks like sh$t. Thats what happens when you take short cuts junior.

What setup would you recommend to a lazy biaber if they wanted to get to your level of homebrew expertise or wanted clear beer? Cheers

 

[Qhrumphf]

It isn't BIAB that inherently makes cloudy beer. It's the milling to near flour often practiced by BIABers, thinking it ups their efficiency and hurts nothing, that gives a grain polyphenol haze. Tell you what, I get 99%+ conversion with a traditional false bottom set up and relatively coarse mill gap (tighter than factory but not that tight, 0.032"). And if I were to BIAB on that mill setting, I would have clear beer and the same conversion efficiency (just less efficient into kettle without a proper sparge), in other words doing no sparge pulverized grist would do nothing but hurt the beer.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Extract is also a great way to brew when your space is limited. Extract comes in different colors and you can even get wheat extract. Dry is better and easier to use than liquid, in my opinion

And guess what? Extract makes clear beer. BIAB did not once in 4 times I tried it. I now use my nylon bag to line my mash tun and create an extra layer of filtration. Gotta say it make cleaning out the spent grain much easier.

While I don't do BIAB, I don't think it's lazy. It's a way for low cost entry in all grain. Especially if you skip doing extract. Frankly extract can get expensive compared to grain. Especially if somebody brews on a budget. Buying bags of grain has a bigger outlay but in batches of beer it's cheaper.

 

[Schlenkerla]

What setup would you recommend to a lazy biaber if they wanted to get to your level of homebrew expertise or wanted clear beer? Cheers

Stout makes a really Stout BIAB Kettle. This would last you a lifetime of brewing.

https://conical-fermenter.com/Brew-in-a-Bag/

At a lower price point with some automation. Anvil Foundry.

https://www.anvilbrewing.com/-p/anv-foundry-10.5.htm

- Again - I don't do BIAB. I am a traditional brewer that's all STOUT Stainless. I'm doing Direct Fire RIMS/HERMS set up. I have gone the route of HERMs since I have an HERMs HLT. My MLT is capable of doing a RIMs. HERMs seams like its more forgiving for mashing without automation.

Hope this helps you.

 

[Schlenkerla]

It isn't BIAB that inherently makes cloudy beer. It's the milling to near flour often practiced by BIABers, thinking it ups their efficiency and hurts nothing, that gives a grain polyphenol haze. Tell you what, I get 99%+ conversion with a traditional false bottom set up and relatively coarse mill gap (tighter than factory but not that tight, 0.032"). And if I were to BIAB on that mill setting, I would have clear beer and the same conversion efficiency (just less efficient into kettle without a proper sparge), in other words doing no sparge pulverized grist would do nothing but hurt the beer.

Truer words never spoken.

 

[bwible]

It isn't BIAB that inherently makes cloudy beer. It's the milling to near flour often practiced by BIABers, thinking it ups their efficiency and hurts nothing, that gives a grain polyphenol haze. Tell you what, I get 99%+ conversion with a traditional false bottom set up and relatively coarse mill gap (tighter than factory but not that tight, 0.032"). And if I were to BIAB on that mill setting, I would have clear beer and the same conversion efficiency (just less efficient into kettle without a proper sparge), in other words doing no sparge pulverized grist would do nothing but hurt the beer.

I have a JSP malt mill, not adjustable. I crushed grain once each time. Not flour. 4 tries, I did not get one clear beer BIAB. All hazy. And not NEIPA recipe with all post kettle hops either. So I’d say the process itself does inherently make cloudy/hazy beer. Which is supported here:

https://www.bjcp.org/docs/Interim_Study_Guide.pdf

You can read the sections on why we lauter, why we boil, etc.

I was just reading another thread about ‘no boil’ beers which also left me shaking my head. I understand people striving for innovation. I don’t understand people wanting to throw hundreds if not thousands of years of science, observation, and experience out the window for no reason.

I put sour beers in this same junk category. I spend good money on cleaning and sanitizing chemicals for a reason. If beer is sour, its infected. I don’t drink infected beer either. I don’t understand why hazy, murky and sour beers are so popular.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Sorry to clarify I use a Kal clone primarily for my typical 1/2bbl batches but also have a 2.5g stovetop and 5g propane biab systems. I don't think biab is lazy. I feel it's a great shortcut for small batch sizes and the only difference I notice when using the biab vs the traditional mash setup is the finished beer takes awhile to clear and of course that's not a big deal if your not in a hurry. I was more curious about bwibles comment that biab and hazy beers are for lazy brewers and that because he had a homebrew shop he knows what he's talking about recommended to be at his elite level. cheers

 

[Qhrumphf]

I have a JSP malt mill, not adjustable. I crushed grain once each time. Not flour. 4 tries, I did not get one clear beer BIAB. All hazy. And not NEIPA recipe with all post kettle hops either. So I’d say the process itself does inherently make cloudy/hazy beer. Which is supported here:

https://www.bjcp.org/docs/Interim_Study_Guide.pdf

You can read the sections on why we lauter, why we boil, etc.

I was just reading another thread about ‘no boil’ beers which also left me shaking my head. I understand people striving for innovation. I don’t understand people wanting to throw hundreds if not thousands of years of science, observation, and experience out the window for no reason.

I put sour beers in this same junk category. I spend good money on cleaning and sanitizing chemicals for a reason. If beer is sour, its infected. I don’t drink infected beer either. I don’t understand why hazy, murky and sour beers are so popular.

Well, I've made clear BIAB beers, as have many many others. Clearly you're doing it wrong. 4 times isn't a particularly useful sample size

I don't BIAB any more because of other shortcomings in the process that, while they can be overcome, eliminate the simple allure of BIAB.

And spare me the literature lecture. A) I've read the study guide. Many times. Along with far, far better sources. And B) your self-proclaimed affinity for "alternative history" and aversion to actual fact has already discredited you. As does your blanket sh*te aversion to an entire class of beers.

So, as far as your alleged NHC medals and multitude if first place ribbons, prove it. Receipts please. Consider your bluff called.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I have a JSP malt mill, not adjustable. I crushed grain once each time. Not flour. 4 tries, I did not get one clear beer BIAB. All hazy. And not NEIPA recipe with all post kettle hops either. So I’d say the process itself does inherently make cloudy/hazy beer. Which is supported here:

https://www.bjcp.org/docs/Interim_Study_Guide.pdf

You can read the sections on why we lauter, why we boil, etc.

I was just reading another thread about ‘no boil’ beers which also left me shaking my head. I understand people striving for innovation. I don’t understand people wanting to throw hundreds if not thousands of years of science, observation, and experience out the window for no reason.

I put sour beers in this same junk category. I spend good money on cleaning and sanitizing chemicals for a reason. If beer is sour, its infected. I don’t drink infected beer either. I don’t understand why hazy, murky and sour beers are so popular.

You just said your mill is not adjustable. That could be part of it. Don't make flour. Adjust your mash temp and times for better efficiency if that's a concern.

A Step Mash for clarity and body.
100 F for 20 minutes
134 F for 20 minutes
145 F for 30 minutes
155 F for 20 minutes
168 F for 10 minutes

A Step Mash for maximum phenolic expression.
100 F for 20 minutes
113 F for 35 minutes
134 F for 10 minutes
150 F for 30 minutes
168 F for 10 minutes

A simple step mash for maximum extraction of sugar
100 F for 20 minutes
150 F for 45 minutes
168 F for 10 minutes

Step mash for dry beer - dry stout & dry lager like ales
145 F for 30 minutes
152 F for 50 minutes
158 F for 30 minutes
168 F for 10 minutes


http://counterbrew.blogspot.com/2016/10/a-beer-geek-guide-to-step-mashing-even.html?m=1

Also grain conditioning helps. You get the grain a little moist not soaked through. About what's believed to be 2% more moisture. The moisture keeps the husk from being so friable and you get less flour like dust.

I dump my grain into a plastic dresser drawer or you could use a storage tub. Spray it with distilled water and hand mix and until you can tell all the grain has had contact with water. It's hard to describe but it's pretty easy to tell. The grain puff a little and the husk color changes sightly.

Since I started grain conditioning I don't get that flour like deposit on my grain bed.

Cheers [emoji482]

 

[Chris-Naz]

While I don't do BIAB, I don't think it's lazy. It's a way for low cost entry in all grain.

I’ll drink to that. It’s possible to nail every style with any of the myriad of wort-producing processes available to the homebrew community.

I’ve been an all grain brewer for 20 years and went from 3-tier to BIAB 2 years/50 batches ago and it’s a pretty versatile method IMO. Made the switch so I could brew in my basement year round in MA and minimize cleanup activities. Sharing some pics for those interested: 1) insulated mash tun + bag + hot rod heat stick (I’ve since remodeled my brew space in my basement), 2) boil (2/3 gal/hr) + hop spider, 3) a super clear saison, 4) clear IPA (some dry hop haze)
Cheers!

 

[Blazinlow86]

I have a JSP malt mill, not adjustable. I crushed grain once each time. Not flour. 4 tries, I did not get one clear beer BIAB. All hazy. And not NEIPA recipe with all post kettle hops either. So I’d say the process itself does inherently make cloudy/hazy beer. Which is supported here:

https://www.bjcp.org/docs/Interim_Study_Guide.pdf

You can read the sections on why we lauter, why we boil, etc.

I was just reading another thread about ‘no boil’ beers which also left me shaking my head. I understand people striving for innovation. I don’t understand people wanting to throw hundreds if not thousands of years of science, observation, and experience out the window for no reason.

I put sour beers in this same junk category. I spend good money on cleaning and sanitizing chemicals for a reason. If beer is sour, its infected. I don’t drink infected beer either. I don’t understand why hazy, murky and sour beers are so popular.

It could just be that not everyone that likes any of those beers you just listed or biab "owned a homebrew shop and therefore knows what there talking about" like you do. Not everyone can be a expert home brewer like yourself. Cheers

 

[Qhrumphf]

It could just be that not everyone that likes any of those beers you just listed or biab "owned a homebrew shop and therefore knows what there talking about" like you do. Not everyone can be a expert home brewer like yourself. Cheers

If only owning a homebrew shop, or a brewery for that matter, required any sort of credentials...

 

[Schlenkerla]

Well, I've made clear BIAB beers, as have many many others. Clearly you're doing it wrong. 4 times isn't a particularly useful sample size

I don't BIAB any more because of other shortcomings in the process that, while they can be overcome, eliminate the simple allure of BIAB.

And spare me the literature lecture. A) I've read the study guide. Many times. Along with far, far better sources. And B) your self-proclaimed affinity for "alternative history" and aversion to actual fact has already discredited you. As does your blanket sh*te aversion to an entire class of beers.

So, as far as your alleged NHC medals and multitude if first place ribbons, prove it. Receipts please. Consider your bluff called.

This is why it's bad to cite your brewing resume unless it's flat out impressive. Odds are somebody will put you to shame. Often it's those that you least expect. [emoji91]........Sssst..... Ouch!!!

It could just be that not everyone that likes any of those beers you just listed or biab "owned a homebrew shop and therefore knows what there talking about" like you do. Not everyone can be a expert home brewer like yourself. Cheers

Extract can make good beers so can BIAB if the process is solid and the ingredients are fresh. But to say extract is where it's at leaving off the more obvious professional methods kind of outs one as inexperienced.

Occasionally, people try to school me at my local brewery since they have liquor store experience on various beer styles. One of them is an expensive beer trader. (Didn't know such a thing existed). I really didn't care. They were flat out wrong on process and history. They wouldn't know that unless they're a multi year experienced brewer or a reincarnated Michael Jackson.

BTW - Not the moon walking pedophile. [emoji2960]

 

[Schlenkerla]

If only owning a homebrew shop, or a brewery for that matter, required any sort of credentials...

A tax number and $$$$$$$.

 

[jjw5015]

[QUOTE I put sour beers in this same junk category. I spend good money on cleaning and sanitizing chemicals for a reason. If beer is sour, its infected.[/QUOTE]

Wow you’re out of touch, bible

 

[Blazinlow86]

[QUOTE I put sour beers in this same junk category. I spend good money on cleaning and sanitizing chemicals for a reason. If beer is sour, its infected.

Wow you’re out of touch, bible[/QUOTE]He owned a homebrew store. He knows what he's talking about..... Cheers

 

[Schlenkerla]

Wow you’re out of touch, bible. He owned a homebrew store. He knows what he's talking about..... Cheers

What if you slept last night at Holiday Inn?

 

[Nagorg]

Happy 2020!

May this be the year of CLEAR IPA's!!!

#MIPACA2020

 

[Schlenkerla]

Happy 2020!

May this be the year of CLEAR IPA's!!!

#MIPACA2020

Hoppy Fuggin New Beers!!!

To clear IPAs..... [emoji482]

 

[Schlenkerla]

Hoppy Fuggin New Beers!!!

To clear IPAs..... [emoji482]

I hearby pledge the following in 2020.

1) One IPA on tap.

2) All Barley Malt Grain Bills (invert is ok)

3) To bitter over 40 IBU.

4) Make all my late additions during the boil.

5) Pitch high flocculation yeast.

 

[applescrap]

I pledge to continue to drink and brew whatever I like irregardless of any perceived judgement, notions, or limitations put on by me or others. Furthermore I pledge to continue to brew however I like depending on the situation and continuing my efforts to push quality, time, ease and convenience closer together. I also pledge to keep using the freshest and best ingredients available to me. I also pledge to continue seeking the best water and treatments I can.

 

[Schlenkerla]

I pledge to continue to drink and brew whatever I like irregardless of any perceived judgement, notions, or limitations put on by me or others. Furthermore I pledge to continue to brew however I like depending on the situation and continuing my efforts to push quality, time, ease and convenience closer together. I also pledge to keep using the freshest and best ingredients available to me. I also pledge to continue seeking the best water and treatments I can.

So you pledge to do whatever floats your boat. - lol

I forget. Are you All Grain?

 

[day_trippr]

No revelation, but The World is always looking for The Next Thing. And I have no doubt there will be something that eclipses the currently raging hazy/New England style "IPAs" at some point, the genius will be figuring out what that is first.

Whether it'll be bright or not, who knows? Apparently "brut" style isn't really gaining much traction, but maybe it needs more time.

Anyway...I have what should be a bright classic wcipa crashing and about to be kegged when I get a round tuit, probably Sunday. After a couple of years banging out one hazy after another this has been a nostalgic brew (remarkably simple - no FO, no WP, no "bios", just one round of dry hops with a few points remaining).

Hopefully it will be as well received as the hazies have been...though tbh I wonder if the audience is ready for it. Time will tell...

Cheers!

 

[ba-brewer]

I hearby pledge the following in 2020.

1) One IPA on tap.

2) All Barley Malt Grain Bills

3) To bitter over 40 IBU.

4) Make all my late additions during the boil.

5) Pitch high flocculation yeast.

Even though I do prefer a clear over hazy beers I cant join you either;

I normally add some amount of sugar like 5% or so in my IPAs to dry them out.
A flame out and/or whirlpool addition would also be common for my IPAs.

I meet #3 but not by much, I shoot for 50 or 60IBUs.

Not sure what I would do with my NEIPA-ish IPA with a couple pounds of wheat I need to keg too.

But like you said whatever floats your boat or fills your fermentor. That is the beauty of being a home brewer you can set your own standards.

 

[6Tap]

No revelation, but The World is always looking for The Next Thing. And I have no doubt there will be something that eclipses the currently raging hazy/New England style "IPAs" at some point, the genius will be figuring out what that is first.

Whether it'll be bright or not, who knows? Apparently "brut" style isn't really gaining much traction, but maybe it needs more time.

Anyway...I have what should be a bright classic wcipa crashing and about to be kegged when I get a round tuit, probably Sunday. After a couple of years banging out one hazy after another this has been a nostalgic brew (remarkably simple - no FO, no WP, no "bios", just one round of dry hops with a few points remaining).

Hopefully it will be as well received as the hazies have been...though tbh I wonder if the audience is ready for it. Time will tell...

Cheers!

Send me a bottle and I’ll be the judge...?[emoji12]

Or......wcipa for wcipa? Mine will be ready in 1.5 weeks.

 

[Schlenkerla]

Even though I do prefer a clear over hazy beers I cant join you either;

I normally add some amount of sugar like 5% or so in my IPAs to dry them out.
A flame out and/or whirlpool addition would also be common for my IPAs.

I meet #3 but not by much, I shoot for 50 or 60IBUs.

Not sure what I would do with my NEIPA-ish IPA with a couple pounds of wheat I need to keg too.

But like you said whatever floats your boat or fills your fermentor. That is the beauty of being a home brewer you can set your own standards.

Some classic bitters have invert sugar in place of crystal malt..... I'd add that to the list. Thinking it's ok. You raise the ABV per the style.