List of PJ Electrical Diagrams

[P-J]

P-J: I can't even begin to tell you how helpful your diagrams have been in trying to develop my own e-brew plans. I was trying to sketch something out like your diagrams, but it's not going so well. Like many others here, I probably know just enough to get myself in trouble. I was hoping I could tell you what I had in mind, and you might have already sketched out something like this for someone else, and I just overlooked it in the thread....

I've got a HLT and BK to control/heat. My MT is a cooler, so that's going to be non-electric for now.

HLT: 5500w element controlled by PID/probe
BK: 5500w element controlled by rheostat (eventually PID/probe, but $$...)

E-stop kill switch, 3 position selector for elements (HLT/None/BK) and then an On-Off for each element.

Plug and on-off for a single pump. Planning to buy a 2nd pump in future, but just one for now.

LEDs for the 3 position selector for the elements, and the on-off for the elements and pump.

I have a friend who gave me a Leviton 6895 GFCI (http://communities.leviton.com/servlet/JiveServlet/previewBody/2046-102-1-3097/Spec 6895.pdf) and a recommendation to start off with a 50A breaker in my house panel and this GFCI in my control panel, and eventually upgrading to a 50A GFCI in my house panel for double security. Do you have any thoughts on that?

Thanks man, I know your diagrams have helped a TON of people already, hoping to add my name to that list

You can start with the diagram posted in #391 of this thread. You just need to change the elements to 5500W units and then add the E-Stop circuit from any of my other diagrams. For illuminated switches you would need to change out the ones I've illustrate to the ones you want to use.

I've run into a serious problem with my computer system since Microsoft removed their support for Windows XP. I'm currently trying to update my system to Windows 8.1 which is an extremly difficult mission at this point.

Sorry..

 

[bigirishape]

Thanks P-J, that's exactly what I was hoping for, will check out post 391. What are you using to make the diagrams btw?

Best of luck with the OS update!

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[P-J]

Thanks P-J, that's exactly what I was hoping for, will check out post 391. What are you using to make the diagrams btw?

Best of luck with the OS update!

Thanks.

I use Microsoft Image Composer to make all of the drawings.

P-J

 

[BigFloppy]

I've run into a serious problem with my computer system since Microsoft removed their support for Windows XP. I'm currently trying to update my system to Windows 8.1 which is an extremly difficult mission at this point.

Sorry..

PJ - Just go thru every update for windows 8.0 and 8.1 will magically appear for free in the Microsoft store

 

[bigirishape]

P-J

P-J:

I'm just going to use the 2 PIDs I think, with one in Manual Mode. The SSVRs I saw are almost prohibitively expensive. If I'm using the 5500w elements and 40a SSRs, should I use the 30A DPDT relays, or should I go for the 40A DPDT relays?

 

[Mojzis]

P-J:



I'm just going to use the 2 PIDs I think, with one in Manual Mode. The SSVRs I saw are almost prohibitively expensive. If I'm using the 5500w elements and 40a SSRs, should I use the 30A DPDT relays, or should I go for the 40A DPDT relays?

There are some on eBay with the pot for 17$. Or consider still dragons kit. I've had that one for a year now.

 

[P-J]

P-J:

I'm just going to use the 2 PIDs I think, with one in Manual Mode. The SSVRs I saw are almost prohibitively expensive. If I'm using the 5500w elements and 40a SSRs, should I use the 30A DPDT relays, or should I go for the 40A DPDT relays?

The relay can be the 30A unit. No problem.

The SSVR and rheostat costs $34 at Auber Instruments. Their PID SYL-2352 costs $47. Your choice.

P-J

 

[Clankenbrew]

I bought the 40a/220v 60 Htz from auber to set up the diagram. If your in no rush China has some cheap versions on ebay but it takes 2 weeks or more for delivery. Dont forget heat sinks.


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[bigirishape]

Would you stick with the 30a circuit breaker in the wall panel with the 5500w elements, or should I look at a 40a breaker?

 

[Clankenbrew]

Watts divided by volts give you amps.... 5500/220= 25 amps. 30a is fine for 1 element... Which is why the center switch in the diagram is a selector switch. It only allows one element to run at a time.


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[bigirishape]

I accidentally bought the 240v coil DPDT relays... I'm going to have to return them and get the 120v coil DPDT relays, aren't I...?

 

[Clankenbrew]

this is what you need.


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[P-J]

You have 240V available going to your panel. You could just wire the contactor using 240V instead of 120V to the pick circuit.

 

[bigirishape]

PJ's diagram says "240v-30A / 120v coil", so does TheElectricBrewery.com instructions.

I bought 2 of these, and need a 3rd: http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_31&products_id=403

Wondering if I'd be better off buying the 3rd, or if I'd be better off returning those 2 240v coil relays, and buying 3 of these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001KGSJ74/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[jeffmeh]

If you have the 240v coil contactors and a 240v feed I would just use them.

 

[bigirishape]

Or I could keep the 240v and use it as the incoming power to the keyed on/off panel switch, and buy 2 of the 120v coils from Amazon and use those to control my elements?

 

[fc36]

Subbed, for e-BIAB. I'm currently wiring up my control panel and P-J's first drawing has given me some ideas.

 

[accusedslacker]

Hi PJ, I'm a complete electrical novice. I read all 42 pages but didn't see my set up so I thought I'd run it by you. I have a 1500W 120V ULWD element in the RIMS tube, RTD probes to the RIMS tube and HLT, a gas solenoid for the HLT and 2 pumps. The BK is all manual. I'm trying to set up a panel for that incorporating those elements with power on/off, e-stop, 2 PID's, 1 switch and light for both pumps. I'll be running this on a 20A 120V garage circuit. I'm sure I'm missing something but thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

 

[Clankenbrew]

Gettin'r done just got the wiring. Thanks a bunch PJ, your diagram was a huge help. You Rock!


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[gueykewl]

Hi PJ, I'm a complete electrical novice. I read all 42 pages but didn't see my set up so I thought I'd run it by you. I have a 1500W 120V ULWD element in the RIMS tube, RTD probes to the RIMS tube and HLT, a gas solenoid for the HLT and 2 pumps. The BK is all manual. I'm trying to set up a panel for that incorporating those elements with power on/off, e-stop, 2 PID's, 1 switch and light for both pumps. I'll be running this on a 20A 120V garage circuit. I'm sure I'm missing something but thanks in advance for any guidance you can provide.

I, too, am in the planning stages of building the same exact system. I keep researching and referencing all of PJ designs which have proved invaluable, but, I am no electrician so it has taken me much longer to finalize my plans for my control panel.

I have come to the conclusion that what we are both trying to do with our planned setup will be too much for a 120V/20A system. For sure we will not be able to run the RIMS tube, both PIDS and both pumps at the same time, which would be optimum. Alternatively, I can heat sparge water in the BK manually to terminal temp as the mash is finishing, turn off the RIMS element and then use BK pump to move sparge water to the HLT to use the PID to maintain sparge temp throughout the sparge process. Possible but not optimal.

It's either that or eliminate the RIMS tube altogether and convert the HLT to a HERMS system using a stainless steel coil. Doing this I should be able to run both PIDS and pumps at the same time. It has taken me longer than I heads planned for this build but I am really enjoying learning and understanding this stage of overall brewing process and really appreciate all the the information on the forum.

Feel free to critique my understanding. I have a thick skin and appreciate the constructive criticism.


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[Clankenbrew]

Pj, on my diagram you have 2 fuses. 10amp and 1amp. The 10 powers the PID and the 1 powers the pumps. Can I use 14g wire on these? Im having a bit of trouble heating up water in a test. The only thing i can guess is the 14g wire isn't amping it up enough.


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[P-J]

Pj, on my diagram you have 2 fuses. 10amp and 1amp. The 10 powers the PID and the 1 powers the pumps. Can I use 14g wire on these? Im having a bit of trouble heating up water in a test. The only thing i can guess is the 14g wire isn't amping it up enough.

Sorry but I cannot identify the drawing. The image you posted is way too small for me to read the ID info I add to the bottom right of the diagram. You would have been better off linking my original so that I (and others) could see it.
Also -

The 10 powers the PID and the 1 powers the pumps.

I think that is backwards.. Dont know as I cannot review the diagram. If what you say is true, I made an error drawing it. Please help me help you.

BTW: 14g wire is not the problem. It is more than enough to carry the current needed for both functions.


P-J

 

[Clankenbrew]

Clankenbrew,

It took me a little time to make the drawing for you but got it done. I also took the liberty of including pump control and outlets in case you change your mind or if someone else wants to use the plan.

As always click on the image to see and save a full scale diagram printable on Tabloid paper (11" X 17")




I hope this helps you.

P-J

Heres your post.


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[P-J]

Heres your post.

My quote - You said: The 10 powers the PID and the 1 powers the pumps.

I said: I think that is backwards..

And indeed it is. The 10a powers the pumps and the 1A powers the pids... so my diagram was drawn accurately.

BTW: #14 wire is ok as well.

 

[Clankenbrew]

Yea... Your right I have the 1amp powering the PID and 10 to the pumps. I misspoke. I used 10g on the 10amp and 14 on the PID. My meter is broke so I cant check voltage until tomorrow but at last check i had 110 and 240 out to the outlets.


Edit:::: frikin harbor freight voltage meter.. Doi!

 

[BTizo]

PJ -

You're diagrams are incredible. I am wondering if you would help me alter one?

I want a push-button power button (SW11) that powers up the whole system. I'd also like 2 red indicator lights for the elements and a 3 way switch to switch between them (Boil - Off - HLT). And of course, an E-Stop.

I think I could piece it together, but I'd love it if there was a diagram to follow along with.

Thank you for contribution to the forums PJ!

 

[Black_Z28]

Any one know if there are any PJ Diagrams using a SSVR and a POT? I'm looking to to also add a push button, like the SW1 to turn the unit on and off. Is a contactor needed for something like this? I'm not looking to use a pump at this time.

Thanks..

 

[P-J]

Any one know if there are any PJ Diagrams using a SSVR and a POT? I'm looking to to also add a push button, like the SW1 to turn the unit on and off. Is a contactor needed for something like this? I'm not looking to use a pump at this time.

Thanks..

The diagram in the post just above your request #426 has a SSVR and rheostat (POT) controlling the element.

Contactors are placed when a switch is used that cannot carry the current involved for the specific applicaion - as your need to use a SW1 to power the system on and off.

 

[Black_Z28]

The diagram in the post just above your request #426 has a SSVR and rheostat (POT) controlling the element.

Contactors are placed when a switch is used that cannot carry the current involved for the specific applicaion - as your need to use a SW1 to power the system on and off.

Thank you sir!! If I were to remove the SW1 and replace it with a double pole switch...like a light switch, could I remove the contactor all together?

 

[BadNewsBrewery]

If your double pole switch is rated for the amperage / wattage of your system demand, then yes. Otherwise - no.

 

[kevreh]

How does the rheostat work in that diagram? The ssvr is expecting 3-32vdc. The rheostat has no power going to it, only a ground. Must be missing something.

Also PJs diagram show the rheostat controling the element, without the pid. Could I put the rheostat between my pid and ssvr so the pid still controls the temperature, but I can use the rheostat to do less power for the mash or the boil?

 

[P-J]

How does the rheostat work in that diagram? The ssvr is expecting 3-32vdc. The rheostat has no power going to it, only a ground. Must be missing something.

Also PJs diagram show the rheostat controling the element, without the pid. Could I put the rheostat between my pid and ssvr so the pid still controls the temperature, but I can use the rheostat to do less power for the mash or the boil?

The rheostat connected to the SSVR controls the percent of power delivered by the SSVR to its connected load. The SSVR is not expecting a variable voltage. It does not work that way.

Regarding using a PID along with the SSVR, I have no idea. In the diagram it is only controlling the rate of the boil.

 

[SpottedDogBrewing]

I'm actually ready to start, been away from this project to long. Would it be possible to get a diagram to fit these components?

Goal is to control a 5500w element for HLT on 30A feed!

Items:
-40A SSR w/heatsink

-SYL2352 PID controller

-Two illuminated 120/240v switches from auberins ( one for main on/off, one for element on/off)

-Amico Overload Protection 2P+N Earth Leakage AC 230v/32A breaker

-Packard C230B 2Pole 30A Contractor w/120v coil

-NEMA L8-30-R 30A/250V Receptacle to plug the 5500w Element into

-XLR female plug for K-Type Thermocouple

-Panel Mount Fuse Holder


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[braconid]

I just spent the last few hours pouring over this thread and can't help but thank P-J again, and everyone else that answers questions, for all the time and effort provided to help everyone make their systems work.

I hope someone here can help me with the last of the details I need to build my RIMS control box for a 120V system. All my breakers are 30A, in case that matters. I am using P-J's diagram: http://www.pjmuth.org/beerstuff/images/Auberin-wiring1-SYL-2352-basic6a-RIMS.jpg, as it is almost exactly what I am looking to build.

My system will use a burner to heat strike and sparge water and use the RIMS tube during the mash to maintain mash temps and again during fly sparging to maintain sparge water temps. Both of those will be run off the system as outlined in the diagram from the link. I have a two pumps, so the second pump switch will be used.

The major modification I would like to make is to add a second PID that will be used to monitor the temperature of the sparge water while heating it on the burner; I got two as a bundle from someone that got out of the game, so I figure I should use it if I have it. The PID will be connected to an alarm that will alert me so I can turn off the burner when the water reaches temperature. I would like the PID to be on the same kind of switch as what is in the diagram. I assume I wire the switch from the hot and neutral terminal blocks, and from the switch to a 1A fuse then to the PID. Is that all I need other than connecting the temperature probe to the PID?

Lastly, what gauge wire should I be using? I know that different runs can use different gauges, because the components have different draws. Can I wire this thing up using all the same gauge or do I need multiple different gauges?

Thanks in advance for any and all help!

 

[orangehero]

I'm actually ready to start, been away from this project to long. Would it be possible to get a diagram to fit these components?

Goal is to control a 5500w element for HLT on 30A feed!

Items:
-40A SSR w/heatsink

-SYL2352 PID controller

-Two illuminated 120/240v switches from auberins ( one for main on/off, one for element on/off)

-Amico Overload Protection 2P+N Earth Leakage AC 230v/32A breaker

-Packard C230B 2Pole 30A Contractor w/120v coil

-NEMA L8-30-R 30A/250V Receptacle to plug the 5500w Element into

-XLR female plug for K-Type Thermocouple

-Panel Mount Fuse Holder


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You can't use XLR quick connects for thermocouple sensors, you need to use the correct connector specific to your thermocouple type and K type thermocouple extension wire on the inside.

Like this:
http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=7_43&products_id=119

The quick connectors can be used with an RTD sensor, though. If your not set on thermocouples for a particular reason I would recommend changing to RTD's since they are not really that much more expensive now.

And skip the panel mount fuse holder, just do an inline fuse or a fuse holder inside the enclosure. You really don't need it panel access, it's just one more hole to drill.

 

[SpottedDogBrewing]

I'm going to give this thread a bump. this does not deserve to be on second page, rather should be in the sticky section.

P-J, you're a hero. Your knowledge is absolutely priceless!

I was wondering if I can run some things by you, P-J, and others on here. I'm slowly putting together a kit to automate my BIAB brewing. My current setup is a 10 gallon pot that sits over two electric stove top elements. I can get 8 gal of wort boiling no problem, but I'm thinking of putting an electric element to control mash temp better and get to boil quicker.

here's what I have so far:

1x 5500w camco element which I'm planning to use with 120v. 1375w should be plenty to maintain mash temp and be safe for 15amp outlet (right?)
1x SYL-2352 PID
1x 40amp SSR
1x K type thermocouple
1x 12v high temp 108gal mini pump which I use to recalculate the wort during mash. (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B007XZAJ3I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20)

The whole setup does not have to be anything fancy, no real need for on/off switches other then pump switch(12v), unless there are good (safety) reasons for it. I would like to have an e-stop button tho.

I'm looking for the best way to hook all of this up together.

Thanks in advance!

Was there a diagram for this setup?


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[SpottedDogBrewing]

What size wire to the SYL2352 PID and from PID to SSR?


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[kal]

What size wire to the SYL2352 PID and from PID to SSR?

It's very low voltage/low current, so small 22 ga wire is fine. However, you may find it easier to attach something fatter like 14 ga. That's what I did. See the bottom blue wires attached to the SSRs:

I put some black shrink wrap on one the GROUND side just to differentiate/label.

Kal

 

[SpottedDogBrewing]

It's very low voltage/low current, so small 22 ga wire is fine. However, you may find it easier to attach something fatter like 14 ga. That's what I did. See the bottom blue wires attached to the SSRs:

I put some black shrink wrap on one the GROUND side just to differentiate/label.

Kal

Great thanks. Is there a requirement to have a fuse in line to the Contactor to protect that? Or will it be fine


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[kal]

You can if you like, but there's no specific requirement for it. You're building an experimental "home use" panel, so there's no requirement to do anything any specific way.

Kal