"It's a proprietary hop blend"

[pretzelb]

Or option #3 -- Keep serving a bad-tasting beer in spite of the investment, and drive customers away from his establishment and his [potentially] good beers.

I think we need to be careful about using the label bad beer. It might be a failure for the style but I doubt we are talking something that causes you to gag. Our little friendly brew culture is starting to get an attitude like the wine culture of old. If a beer is liked by the masses who don't know as much as us brewers then why not sell it? On the flip side, the best made beer in an unpopular style might not sell at all leaving a world class brewer out of business.

But if it's bad and it doesn't sell well then they should consider dumping it.

 

[iijakii]

"Sorry, this is a proprietary SMaSH and I can't give out any information on it."

 

[Rhumbline]

I think we need to be careful about using the label bad beer. It might be a failure for the style but I doubt we are talking something that causes you to gag. Our little friendly brew culture is starting to get an attitude like the wine culture of old. If a beer is liked by the masses who don't know as much as us brewers then why not sell it? On the flip side, the best made beer in an unpopular style might not sell at all leaving a world class brewer out of business.

But if it's bad and it doesn't sell well then they should consider dumping it.

This is worth considering. Whatever you might think about Corona, Heinekin, Guinness, etc. there are certainly a ton of people who drink them, to the extent that they keep a huge corporation afloat.

I brewed a tripple that I thought was horrible, barely drinkable. I gave one to an experienced brewer and he loved it.

Diffrent strokes.

 

[iijakii]

Guinness is delicious what's wrong with you?

 

[tagz]

When you get a meal at most nice restaurants, the wait staff will tell you every little detail about the dish. Beer should be no different. Tell me the hops and grain that you use, so I know what I'm about to order. I refuse to buy bottles that have zero description. And I would definitely be put off by some proprietary blend BS.

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

I know lots of people say that they're in no way obligated to share their specific ingredients, but I think that goes against everything that beer culture has been about for so long. Not only is a good beer just as much about process as ingredients, it's also about equipment. Successful beers are also not necessarily about how good it is, but about the culture surrounding the brewery. It's the pr and advertisement that will often make a beer successful.

I'd put it another way: what one is obligated to do is a damn low bar.

 

[iijakii]

When you get a meal at most nice restaurants, the wait staff will tell you every little detail about the dish. Beer should be no different. Tell me the hops and grain that you use, so I know what I'm about to order. I refuse to buy bottles that have zero description. And I would definitely be put off by some proprietary blend BS.

There's a big chain here in Portland area that lists all malts and hops, OG/FG, IBU, SRM etc. Always enjoyed that. Their beers aren't anything special but it's always pretty solid. They got cajun tots though so what else do you need?

http://www.mcmenamins.com/489-john-barleycorns-ale-cider

 

[max384]

When you get a meal at most nice restaurants, the wait staff will tell you every little detail about the dish. Beer should be no different. Tell me the hops and grain that you use, so I know what I'm about to order. I refuse to buy bottles that have zero description. And I would definitely be put off by some proprietary blend BS.

No matter how interesting or how good a bottle of beer looks, if they don't have the ABV listed, I don't buy it out of principle. I'm not someone who only buys the highest ABV beers or anything, but that's very basic information that all beers should include. I mean, the brewery obviously knows the ABV of their beer, so why not include it? It's amazing how many bottles of beer don't include this.

Although, I won't refuse to buy a beer that doesn't have listed hops, IBUs, SRMs, etc., I'm MUCH more likely to buy a beer that does have these listed as opposed to one that doesn't.

I'm a beer geek, and I love the geeky specifications of a beer to be listed!

 

[CA_Mouse]

I think they know that their beers suck, and don't want to hear it from someone who can tell them that.

If I was a professional and putting out sub-par product, I sure wouldn't want a BJCP judge and knowledgeable brewer to sit and critique it.

I think that this is a big part of the issues. I know a few of the brewers that haven't wanted to discuss their beers with me, are afraid that I may be brutally honest with them. A lot of them have never entered beer in a competition and have been adamant that competitions are not a good indicator of beer quality. Not to be snide about it, but I've dumped beers that didn't stand up to my quality restrictions, that were better than what they have on tap.

 

[pretzelb]

When you get a meal at most nice restaurants, the wait staff will tell you every little detail about the dish. Beer should be no different. Tell me the hops and grain that you use, so I know what I'm about to order. I refuse to buy bottles that have zero description. And I would definitely be put off by some proprietary blend BS.

To me food is vastly different. First you only get those details in fine restaurants. Coincidentally beer isn't a staple in fine restaurants. More importantly the audience that appreciates detailed beer ingredients is maybe 5% of the customers. Of that maybe 2% require it. For example, my wife only likes IPA's and when she is really picky she only likes citrus types. Meanwhile I will look at a beer menu and focus on the styles. Maybe I feel like an IPA or maybe I'll go for a stout depending on my mood. But I can't see myself saying "I'm not trying your Oktoberfest unless you tell me the malt and hops used". I'm sure some people need to know that. I doubt it is enough for a business to cater to.

 

[soccerdad]

There's a big chain here in Portland area that lists all malts and hops, OG/FG, IBU, SRM etc. Always enjoyed that. Their beers aren't anything special but it's always pretty solid. They got cajun tots though so what else do you need?

http://www.mcmenamins.com/489-john-barleycorns-ale-cider

I've been to the one heading out toward Corbett several times. Nice taproom, good to know the beer is brewed on site, and nice to be able to check the ingredients. Decent food too.

 

[rawlus]

Lots of entitlement in this thread. Makes me begin to think you don't like the beer BECAUSE the Brewer won't give you the recipe.

Here's an idea, exercise your craft knowledge, palate and experience, and try to imagine what might be in it.

I don't see Shawn Hill handing out recipes at the farm.

 

[505-Brewer]

Not all of us do; however, our excitement over the process does tend to leak out even if we're trying to keep it contained. I know I try not to ask questions that would be only relevant to a home brewer. I do ask questions about hops or gain in beers not because I home brew, but because I am usually trying to nail down a taste I did or didn't like. I learned about not loving beers with black patent malt in them by doing just that. There are also hops I do not care for or favor and tasting a beer that had such presence, I would be inclined to ask. I am not asking anyone to talk shop with me. I'd do the same thing at a restaurant.



There may be a case where that is true; however, this guy said it was proprietary hop blend. Either way, if he doesn't want to tell anyone, that is his right. My guess though is that he may not have known or really didn't care to share it because he knew it wasn't awesome. I'd want to know because I would avoid mixing those hops.







This brew pub started off on the wrong foot. I paid $20 to go to their grand opening which was a parking lot fenced off with a band in the middle of June. There were about 7 people inside those gates. After spending $20 to listen to a band that I could have listened to from my truck in the shade, I also paid $15 for 3 tickets to buy beer. Turns out they had never even fired up their brewery. I was paying for crap I could get at the restaurant I went to eat at 30 minutes later. I went back with about 10 friends and drank there, got a tour because I was with another brewery, and learned that asking questions about their BCS brewery seemed to be more of an annoyance to the owner than anything. Still, I bought a cap because the hottie who got me into the brew house was well, hot. I am glad to see they're at least brewing something. I'd give them another shot but their grand opening was a bit of a flop in my eyes.



Point being, every new brewery deserves a second visit unless there was something so incredibly horrible about the first visit that I cannot stomach another visit.

I thought the point is that every new brewery needs a hottie.

 

[SlickTX]

But you invalidated my point about fried chicken clubs not being a thing. If you invalidate even the smallest of my points, then you invalidate my entire argument. That's how internet arguing works.

I admit defeat.

Arguing on the internet is like being the Special Olympics. You might win, but you are still [mentally challenged].

 

[soccerdad]

Hmmm - as a Special Olympics supporter who has come to know and appreciate a number of those athletes, as well as the companies who employ them, I am not sure whether to keep my big mouth shut or make fun of Texans.

Ah Texas. Central Time Zone. But those folks are more than just an hour behind us.

 

[hunter_le five]

Hmmm - as a Special Olympics supporter who has come to know and appreciate a number of those athletes, as well as the companies who employ them, I am not sure whether to keep my big mouth shut or make fun of Texans.

Ah Texas. Central Time Zone. But those folks are more than just an hour behind us.

 

[iijakii]

Hmmm - as a Special Olympics supporter who has come to know and appreciate a number of those athletes, as well as the companies who employ them, I am not sure whether to keep my big mouth shut or make fun of Texans.

Ah Texas. Central Time Zone. But those folks are more than just an hour behind us.

Excuse me, but the proper term is 'textards'.

 

[MattyIce]

This thread is going swimmingly.

Not sure I buy the fine restaurant analogy either.

 

[joshesmusica]

Arguing on the internet is like being the Special Olympics. You might win, but you are still [mentally challenged].

I can't imagine how small of a man one must be to make such a statement as an adult.

 

[brewingmeister]

I can't imagine how small of a man one must be to make such a statement as an adult.

Small minded??

 

[hunter_le five]

 

[brewingmeister]

The brewer probably had other stuff to do or who knows/cares. Unlike them on facecrap that'll show em.

Life is too short, gotta enjoy yourself.

View attachment 1448396291281.jpg

 

[pretzelb]

Woo woo woo woo.

 

[tagz]

To me food is vastly different. First you only get those details in fine restaurants. Coincidentally beer isn't a staple in fine restaurants. More importantly the audience that appreciates detailed beer ingredients is maybe 5% of the customers. Of that maybe 2% require it. For example, my wife only likes IPA's and when she is really picky she only likes citrus types. Meanwhile I will look at a beer menu and focus on the styles. Maybe I feel like an IPA or maybe I'll go for a stout depending on my mood. But I can't see myself saying "I'm not trying your Oktoberfest unless you tell me the malt and hops used". I'm sure some people need to know that. I doubt it is enough for a business to cater to.

We'll have to disagree about food. I don't think it's all that different. The reason good chefs don't care about telling you what's in their food is that they know it's all about technique and quality of ingredients.

As for labeling, I'm not saying I won't buy if they list all the ingredients. However I definitely won't buy if there is nothing but a name and pretty design on the label. If they tell me the style? I see lots of beers out there that have some silly name, a design, and that's it. Lame. And, yes, I do give
PREFERENCE to breweries that tell me what hops, malts or spiced they use.

 

[iijakii]

Yup, I see that all the time. IPA. Ok, is it dry and bitter? malty? citrusy? floral? pass.

 

[Bosh]

Maybe the better brewers are more forthcoming because if you're mediocre and make something you think it's good it's probably because you had tasty ingredients but if you're really awesome it's all the little bits of process that puts you over the top so it doesn't matter much if people know what kinds of hops you used.

 

[CA_Mouse]

Maybe the better brewers are more forthcoming because if you're mediocre and make something you think it's good it's probably because you had tasty ingredients but if you're really awesome it's all the little bits of process that puts you over the top so it doesn't matter much if people know what kinds of hops you used.

This is what I was saying... They can have my recipe, but their equipment, process and actual measurements are going to be different than mine, that means they will not replicate my recipe exactly. They may get very close and will have to continue to brew it over and over to get nearly identical.

 

[iijakii]

There's just not much propriety with ingredients anyways. I understand if you dont want to give out every detail, but what's the point of being so secretive? Ok your IPA is dry and citrusy, not exactly hard to figure out bro. Unless that magical ingredient is raccoon anal glands or something.

 

[pretzelb]

We'll have to disagree about food. I don't think it's all that different. The reason good chefs don't care about telling you what's in their food is that they know it's all about technique and quality of ingredients.

As for labeling, I'm not saying I won't buy if they list all the ingredients. However I definitely won't buy if there is nothing but a name and pretty design on the label. If they tell me the style? I see lots of beers out there that have some silly name, a design, and that's it. Lame. And, yes, I do give
PREFERENCE to breweries that tell me what hops, malts or spiced they use.

I think when it comes to food you have to think in percentages. Maybe we walk in different circles but the places I go that tell me the details of the food are what I'd call the exception or the places we go for a special night. I can think of a few immediately. But those are probably the 5% of the places we go when we eat out.

Put it this way, if you go and order Buffalo wings, are you going to insist you know the hot sauce used? Or are you going to insist you know all the cheeses and all exact type of mushrooms used on your pizza? How about the type of potato in your mashed potatoes?

The places I go that I expect (not demand) a detailed ingredient list for the food are also the type of places where beer is an after thought. I've come to embrace and accept that beer is not what you should or expect to pair with fine dining. I also think there is some truth to that, depending on my mood and the food but in general it is true.

So what does that mean? Most of the places where I dine out are not fine dining. As such they aren't giving me details beyond what is required for food allergies. And I'm not really going to require much more. Plus these are the places where I expect beer to be the best match. So that leaves me wondering why I should expect fine dining requirements in a place that isn't fine dining.

Or to put it another way, I'm not going to refuse a pizza that doesn't give me all the details, nor a burger, nor whatever else non high end dish you can think of. Maybe I should expect more of my burger or pizza or whatever but I don't. I also don't try to treat my beer like it's some fine aged wine.

 

[pretzelb]

There's just not much propriety with ingredients anyways. I understand if you dont want to give out every detail, but what's the point of being so secretive? Ok your IPA is dry and citrusy, not exactly hard to figure out bro. Unless that magical ingredient is raccoon anal glands or something.

I agree but maybe it comes down to being really good at PR. I think I made the point earlier in this thread but maybe not so here goes again. Why do we think a brewer also needs to be a salesman? Sure it would be nice but required?

In this case it could be that a better response was available but because the brewer wasn't a great salesman it wasn't delivered. Then again, it could also be he says "hops x, y, and z" to which the customer says "oh, what ratio" and then he's forced into the same corner. So then is he still wrong?

 

[slym2none]

****, I am more inclined to give away a recipe than I am an actual beer.

 

[Jaybird]

I'll admit, I rarely ask any advice on the forum any more. I've grown weary of the types who insist you must have temp control to within 1/10th of a degree, and you have to personally count every yeast cell before pitching and wort must be at 60 degrees within 20 minutes or all is lost.

I still enjoy reading the experiences of others, but I'm sorry to say that I'm just not interested in hearing the questionable scientific justification for why a stir plate must rotate counterclockwise.

CLOCKWISE! UHHHHGGGGG!!!! LOL

I would personally give them some time to settle in and get a little more relaxed. Chances are he was just BUSY and had, had 1 of those days. We have em. Maybe take him a few 12 oz bottles of your KILLER IPA and say "Hey from 1 brewer to the next I think your IPA can use some work if interested in discussing how let me know. I would love to see you all succeed" Simple open ended and to the point.

Cheers
Jay

 

[tagz]

I think when it comes to food you have to think in percentages. Maybe we walk in different circles but the places I go that tell me the details of the food are what I'd call the exception or the places we go for a special night. I can think of a few immediately. But those are probably the 5% of the places we go when we eat out.



Put it this way, if you go and order Buffalo wings, are you going to insist you know the hot sauce used? Or are you going to insist you know all the cheeses and all exact type of mushrooms used on your pizza? How about the type of potato in your mashed potatoes?



The places I go that I expect (not demand) a detailed ingredient list for the food are also the type of places where beer is an after thought. I've come to embrace and accept that beer is not what you should or expect to pair with fine dining. I also think there is some truth to that, depending on my mood and the food but in general it is true.



So what does that mean? Most of the places where I dine out are not fine dining. As such they aren't giving me details beyond what is required for food allergies. And I'm not really going to require much more. Plus these are the places where I expect beer to be the best match. So that leaves me wondering why I should expect fine dining requirements in a place that isn't fine dining.



Or to put it another way, I'm not going to refuse a pizza that doesn't give me all the details, nor a burger, nor whatever else non high end dish you can think of. Maybe I should expect more of my burger or pizza or whatever but I don't. I also don't try to treat my beer like it's some fine aged wine.

True. I don't go out to eat very often. So when I do, we usually go to a nice place.

 

[biochemedic]

Post #2:

Sounds pretty *****ey to me... It's not like they're even being creative about it, like when years ago Dogfish Head used to advertise that 60 Minute had "Mystery Hop X" as part of the hop blend.

Post #112:

Sounds pretty *****ey to me... It's not like they're even being creative about it, like when years ago Dogfish Head used to advertise that 60 Minute had "Mystery Hop X" as part of the hop blend.

?? WTF cgfjy ??

 

[1977Brewer]

Post #2:





Post #112:





?? WTF ??

112 is a spammer. They copy posts and add links in white text.

 

[biochemedic]

112 is a spammer. They copy posts and add links in white text.

I can see that now...he's in at least 3 other threads with the same behavior.

 

[CJ-3]

I can see that now...he's in at least 3 other threads with the same behavior.

I wonder if it's related to the site spamming that has been happening lately.

 

[slym2none]

I just reported another one and the mods had it removed within minutes.

It's a different kind of SEO, as it's sneakier. I don't like either kind, but I think these guys are worse than the flood of Korean sites we've been getting, as at least we know those are Spam. If I see a short post & think I recognize it from elsewhere, I just hit the quote button & find out for sure.

 

[MaxStout]

It amazes me that people still spam discussion boards. With most sites using NOFOLLOW, it's not like those spam links are going to get them any SEO gains. And humans are unlikely to click the embedded links, so little chance of actual traffic.

 

[max384]

It amazes me that people still spam discussion boards. With most sites using NOFOLLOW, it's not like those spam links are going to get them any SEO gains. And humans are unlikely to click the embedded links, so little chance of actual traffic.

I wonder if they exist on pure numbers only. If, say, only 1 out of every 100 viewers click on a link, if they spam enough sites, they'll get traffic.