The "short & cool" dry hop method (Janish) - applied to bottle conditioning

[MaxStout]

I've been thinking about dry hop creep, and have read Scott Janish's piece of doing a short and cool dry hop. I get the concept: cold-crash the beer to about 50F post-fermentation, add hops, package within a day or two. The idea is to keep the beer cool enough to minimize secondary fermentation due to enzymes in the hops, and reduce the formation of diacetyl precursors. Mr. Janish's method appears to be directed to kegging; after all, the beer can remain cold from dry hop to serving, and yeast activity is kept to a minimum the whole time. He also discusses the same in The New IPA. Neither discussion addresses how this would play out in bottle-conditioning.

My thoughts and concerns are about how would this would work for bottling. I have an IPA in fermentation now, and I plan to bottle in about a week. I will dry hop with Citra and Centennial, about 1.5 oz each into a 5.5 gallon batch. I plan to toss the pellets in directly, as I have had less-than-ideal results in the past using hops bags. But using the Janish method for bottle-conditioning would mean chilling the beer, dry hopping, then bottling and subjecting the bottled beer to room temp for conditioning. Warm to cold to warm again. This seems to defeat the whole idea of the short & cool method, and I'm concerned about excessive refermentation in the bottles (i.e., bottle-bombs).

I have only dry-hopped a few beers, and they were OK, not great. One did have a discernable diacetyl flavor, though not overpowering. Still, a flaw in a hop-forward beer.

Has anyone tried the short & cool dry hop method and bottle-conditioned their beer? If so, how did it work? Another option for me is to dry hop per usual, several days before packaging, and at normal temps (mid-60s). I could ramp up the temp a day or two before packaging, as a sort of "mini-diacetyl rest." In any case, I plan to under-carb the beer a bit, just in case.

Any thoughts, personal experiences with this?

 

[rburrelli]

I bottle condition as I normally would but at a colder temperature. My procedure is to cold crash a couple days, dry hop at crash temps and then bottle, also at a colder temperature. Not crash temp but a bit higher. I prime each bottle by syringe. Fill and cap. Normal from there on. Carbonate at room temperatures. I have had no issues.,

 

[Shenanigans]

Sounds good, might try this myself for a batch or two soon.
The only problem I had before when bottling beer at colder temperatures was that a lot of condensation formed on the botttles and they were as slippy as hell. Nearly lost a few when they slipped out of my hands.
I suppose I should use gloves or chill the bottles first but I hate working with gloves.

 

[minmaxx77]

I've been thinking about dry hop creep, and have read Scott Janish's piece of doing a short and cool dry hop. I get the concept: cold-crash the beer to about 50F post-fermentation, add hops, package within a day or two. The idea is to keep the beer cool enough to minimize secondary fermentation due to enzymes in the hops, and reduce the formation of diacetyl precursors. Mr. Janish's method appears to be directed to kegging; after all, the beer can remain cold from dry hop to serving, and yeast activity is kept to a minimum the whole time. He also discusses the same in The New IPA. Neither discussion addresses how this would play out in bottle-conditioning.

My thoughts and concerns are about how would this would work for bottling. I have an IPA in fermentation now, and I plan to bottle in about a week. I will dry hop with Citra and Centennial, about 1.5 oz each into a 5.5 gallon batch. I plan to toss the pellets in directly, as I have had less-than-ideal results in the past using hops bags. But using the Janish method for bottle-conditioning would mean chilling the beer, dry hopping, then bottling and subjecting the bottled beer to room temp for conditioning. Warm to cold to warm again. This seems to defeat the whole idea of the short & cool method, and I'm concerned about excessive refermentation in the bottles (i.e., bottle-bombs).

I have only dry-hopped a few beers, and they were OK, not great. One did have a discernable diacetyl flavor, though not overpowering. Still, a flaw in a hop-forward beer.

Has anyone tried the short & cool dry hop method and bottle-conditioned their beer? If so, how did it work? Another option for me is to dry hop per usual, several days before packaging, and at normal temps (mid-60s). I could ramp up the temp a day or two before packaging, as a sort of "mini-diacetyl rest." In any case, I plan to under-carb the beer a bit, just in case.

Any thoughts, personal experiences with this?

Hello MaxStout. Do you remember how it turned out compared to regural dryhopping?

Softcrashing before Dryhopping seems to be all the hype nowdays. Promised best flavors and aroma etc. Most of the recepies advice you to soft crash before dh.

But how is this gonna play out when bottle conditioning. Is there any reason to mess with that if we end up raising to the room temp for few weeks anyway.

For now i have dh at room temp and still got juicy neipas. Altough i have done very few of them.

Are we missing out or is softcrahs dry hopping only viable if kegging and never again raising the temp of beer?

Sounds good, might try this myself for a batch or two soon.

How about you?

 

[Shenanigans]

Hello MaxStout. Do you remember how it turned out compared to regural dryhopping?

Softcrashing before Dryhopping seems to be all the hype nowdays. Promised best flavors and aroma etc. Most of the recepies advice you to soft crash before dh.

But how is this gonna play out when bottle conditioning. Is there any reason to mess with that if we end up raising to the room temp for few weeks anyway.

For now i have dh at room temp and still got juicy neipas. Altough i have done very few of them.

Are we missing out or is softcrahs dry hopping only viable if kegging and never again raising the temp of beer?

How about you?

I have only dry hopped a bit colder when kegging, turned out better but haven't tried it while bottling yet.

 

[BeerAndTele]

This is an interesting topic; sorry I missed it last June.

I don't cold crash prior to bottle conditioning ... didn't make sense to me to spend time and effort dropping out the yeast if I'm going to rely on it again ... plus, i dont want the conditioning phase to extend longer than it needs to be. As a result, I dry hop at the same temp at which fermentation cleanup occurs, which is typically a couple degrees higher than during active fermentation... or close to room temp.

And when I bottle a heavily-dry-hopped beer using my standard 1/2 tsp table sugar per 12 oz. bottle, you guessed it: gushers.

So my approach hss been - rather than trying to use temperature to limit hop creep - I let it happen and reduce the bottling sugar. When I use 3/8 tsp/12 oz. bottle, I'm right on the verge of over-carbonation. My last batch I used 3/8 tsp but i used the curved side of a knife to level the sugar when measuring, rather than the flat side ... that left me with a convex measuring spoon rather than a flat one ... and the results are better yet. NOTE: my standard dryhop amount is .4-.6 oz./gal.

I'm curious what you other bottle-conditioners do.

Cheers.

ETA: my dry hop duration is only 2 days ... maybe 3 max.

 

[MaxStout]

Hello MaxStout. Do you remember how it turned out compared to regural dryhopping?

Softcrashing before Dryhopping seems to be all the hype nowdays. Promised best flavors and aroma etc. Most of the recepies advice you to soft crash before dh.

But how is this gonna play out when bottle conditioning. Is there any reason to mess with that if we end up raising to the room temp for few weeks anyway.

For now i have dh at room temp and still got juicy neipas. Altough i have done very few of them.

Are we missing out or is softcrahs dry hopping only viable if kegging and never again raising the temp of beer?

How about you?

Sorry it took me a while to reply.

The short & cool method turned out a little better. In other words, I didn't notice as much diacetyl in the finished beer, compared to the old method. But there was some. I do seem to have a sensitive palate for diacetyl, and it was subtle but noticeable. I bottle, so I don't have all the advantages that kegging would bring to this process. But next dry hop, I'll stick with the short & cool method. Anything to improve my beers.

 

[minmaxx77]

And when I bottle a heavily-dry-hopped beer using my standard 1/2 tsp table sugar per 12 oz. bottle, you guessed it: gushers

That explains something i have experienced few times.

So my approach hss been - rather than trying to use temperature to limit hop creep - I let it happen and reduce the bottling sugar

I have read of adding little bit of sugar when DH to help remove O2 and maybe it will help with getting past the hopcreep too? I bulk prime so maybe i just target lower co2 volume. Maybe 1.9 rather than 2.3.

I bottle, so I don't have all the advantages that kegging would bring to this process. But next dry hop, I'll stick with the short & cool method. Anything to improve my beers.

I might try to lower the temp before DH next time. But maybe just to the low end of yeast recommended fermentation temp. So i can still maybe get past hop creep during 3 day DH.