Irony of the Arrogant Bastard

[Brewdiction]

Well, I was starting to feel cocky confident after 5 or 6 successful brews, three winning local awards, and two my first all-grain attempts...(see Hard Way IPA in recipes for one of the successful Citra based batches) I read Palmers book several times, read a lot on this forum, listening to podcasts, etc - yeah, I'm addicted.
But, then I attempted to clone Arrogant Bastard from a recipe on this site. Split into two 6.5g Better Bottles, one on previous yeast cake and the other a healthy WPL007 starter. Combination of curiousness and cheapness. Both turned out sweeter (overshot mash temps, super active fermentation so those temps were above 70 until ferm cooler kicked in, and whole hops were homegrown and probably low a levels) but one I would describe as sour... Almost like a bitter.
So, I tried gelatin and cold crashing hoping it was by-product related and could be saved but to no avail. It did clear nicely BTW.
I drank as much as I could stomach and moved on the the next batch, an American Pale Ale from my LHBS wort share. Although it tasted OK (perhaps a sour hint which I originally wrote off as from the SG cylinder) when measuring FG, it gradually took on the same sour notes.
More info: I did use the same corny for both, but I follow PBW cleaning and IO-star sanitizing recommendations. Cleaned, but did not replace gaskets since they were new prior to AB clone. I also thought I'd get organized and began storing all homebrew equipment, including my racking cane, in a closed plastic bin. Prior to use, I pumped some of the same PBW mix and IOstar used to clean/sanitize the cornys. Similar with the thief. I always purge equipment with CO2 and try to keep agitation to a minimal. Beer line was cleaned with LLC. Perlick faucet soaked in same solution. Finally, two better bottles are new and two have less than six brews on them (unfortunately I did not mark them).
Does this sound like a contamination/infection issue?
If so, what caused it and what can I do to either save current batch and/or prevent from future?

Thanks in advance.

 

[aiptasia]

Does this sound like a contamination/infection issue?
If so, what caused it and what can I do to either save current batch and/or prevent from future?

Thanks in advance.

Well, it might be. You could have a little lactobacillus or acetobactir infecting your batches to give it a sour taste. Proper sanitizing and cleaning is the only way to prevent that.

Tell me, are you using liquid extracts? IDK what it is about using liquid extracts but I always seem to taste slightly sour to me. I call it the "Twang" of using a liquid extract and can usually taste it in any beer that uses them. Dried malt extract beers don't seem to pick up this twangy sour note, so if i'm ever forced to use an extract, I use DME.

You might also consider freshening up your cleaner/sanitizer in case that's the issue. I like to use PBW for general cleaning of my equipment to get the chunk and the gunk out of it, then i'll sanitize with a rinse of either Iodophor or fresh StarSan. I find that I like iodophor better for sanitizing kegs, bottles, flushing out lines and soaking. I like StarSan better for cleaning out plastics and gaskets as it doesn't stain as bad as iodophor.

 

[Brewdiction]

Thanks for the reply. These were both all grain... and one was a wort share from my LHBS so I trust it was brewed correctly up to hitting my carboy!

A few things I failed to mention originally:
The carboys sometimes collect moisture under them while in the fermentation cooler. I noticed a little mildew under the AB clones so I sprayed with IO Star and now place stone coasters under them for airflow.
I heard on a podcast (CEO of Five Star making PBW/Iostar...) not to brew in garages/laundry rooms due to airborne bacteria. I have been racking at the utility sink in my laundry room. He did ultimately recommend PBW for all cleaning and IOstar for sanitizing.

Besides Star San not staining plastics, are there other benefits? It appears to require longer contact time and a rinse.
I'm thinking perhaps I didn't have enough contact time with IOstar. Or the cane tubing held some bacteria, or more than usual, due to storing in the plastic bin? Perhaps my teenage son's stanky socks 6ft away spoiled my beer?
When using IOstar, I fill corny with 2.5g water add 1/2 oz and shake it up. Let sit a few mins, then turn corny over. Let sit, then drain into a bucket to sanitize smaller parts, racking cane, thief, etc. That's the only time I 'reuse' it. I always keep some in a spray bottle that is fresh, occasionally replacing every few months, that I'll use on everything the beer may touch.

Regardless, I'll replace the racking cane hose and give it a longer soak in enough solution to fully reach 100% and remove the hose rather than just pass some sanitizer through for a minute. I'll do the same with the better bottles in case there is a small scratch or something housing bacteria.

Any concern on beer line itself? It's relatively new and, like I said, cleaned/rinse with LLC with each keg swap. Especially after the bad AB clone touched it.

Any other areas?

 

[FRS]

Some googling seems to suggest that io star is only effective for a few hours after dilution, so your spray bottle may be ineffective at sanitizing after a time. Also the surfactant in star san help it get into all the scratches and crevices on your equipment for better sanitization.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[Brewdiction]

I didn't know that had a shelf life once mixed. The label does say, "Fresh sanitizing solution should be prepared daily or more often if the solution becomes diluted of soiled." but I guess I skimmed over that part too quick.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[HopinJim]

First off, starsan doesn't require rinsing. I don't think contact time is longer, either. Finally, the shelf life is months, not days. I make it in 2-1/2 gallon batches with distiller water to keep it clear. I occasionally check the ph of older batches and continue using until the ph goes above 3. Thus starsan is my sanitizer of choice and I've never (knock on wood) had an infection, even with garage brewing.

 

[Brewdiction]

@HopinJim, While fundamentally I agree with your approach to testing the pH, Starsan's product tech sheet disagrees with you on both counts. http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/Star-San-HB4.pdf

Then again, I probably read the IO Star directions dozens of times and didn't notice the 'mix fresh daily or more' sentence.

 

[HopinJim]

@Brewdiction: I've read that report... Thing is, they also claim that if the mixture is cloudy, it has lost its viability, yet if you use tap water (city water) it turns cloudy as soon as the solution is mixed. This would lead me to believe that you can't use tap water at all, yet it seems to work just fine. I use the distilled water just to keep it clear. I keep a spray bottle of the stuff around, plus I store the rest in the jugs the water came in, and it seams to work fine. Just keep in mind, they are a company, thus are acting in their best interest, from both a liability standpoint, as well as the fact that they sell the stuff.....

 

[rpkincaid]

@HopinJim, While fundamentally I agree with your approach to testing the pH, Starsan's product tech sheet disagrees with you on both counts. http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/Star-San-HB4.pdf

Then again, I probably read the IO Star directions dozens of times and didn't notice the 'mix fresh daily or more' sentence.

The linked PDF is for Star San HB. Here is the tech sheet for Star San http://www.fivestarchemicals.com/wp-content/uploads/StarSanTech5.pdf

Apparently the HB directions were for California due to regulations there.

 

[Brewdiction]

@HopinJim - funny I was thinking the same thing! Kind of like that brand of guitar strings I used to use, that last for years... that are no longer sold in shops. Hard to drum up repeat business if your product is too good.

@rpkincaid - thanks for the catch. I never noticed there are two versions. Any idea what HB stands for? perhaps home brewing?

 

[RonPopeil]

star san also has a limit of about 5 hours unless you use distilled water. easiest way to tell is to shake it. bubbles = still good

 

[Talonracer67]

Star San does not work chemically, it works by PH. I mix mine with distilled water and as long as the PH is right it will work. I have no idea how old the batch I'm using now is, I remember making a fresh batch when I was making wine in the fall. Checked it yesterday and the PH was 2.27 and its clear as a bell.