Conical Cleaning -- CIP Ball VS. Disassembly, Soak & Scrub

[Mr Drinklestien]

I own a Spike CF 15 conical fermenter. Cleaning wise it's a complete disassembly, soak, scrub and clean. Whether its a spike or other brand of conical, what's your take on the disassembly vs. the CIP ball cleaning method. I always err on the side of caution when it comes to cleaning and sanitizing to eliminate any chance of contamination, therefore I follow the following method.

1) Remove the lid, blast the lid with a hot water and wipe away any residue.
2) Move conical outside blast the inside with hot water, crank open the valves and open the sample port and rinse away all surface residue possible
3) With a damp small sponge and PBW (add dry), scrub lid interior, ports and gasket seats. Rinse with hot water. Dry with towel.
4) Disassemble each component, blast with hot water and hit with the sponge. Place all components into a PBW soak for 24 hours.
5) Follow same method with the sponge and PBW and scrub the interior, ports and gasket seats, blast with hot water. Dry with towel
6) Discard sponge
7) Inspect lid and fermentor for any residue
8) Spray lid and conical with StarSan, place lid unto fermentor (gasket free)
9) 24 hours after PBW soak, remove components, gaskets, etc... from PBW. Scrub with paper towel (shouldn't be any heavy debris remaining and is so should wipe away easily). Blast/rise with hot water.
10) Place items into StarSan, I go anywhere from 1 hour to 24 hours depending on the time I have
11) Remove items from StarSan and reassemble to fermentor.
12) Open up all valves/sample ports and let air for 24 hours
13) Place a paper towel and elastic on the top 1.5" port and close off the sample port and valves and place storage caps on
14) Prior to transferring wort to fermenter on next brew i give it a quick squirt of StarSan via spray bottle and open the valves to let it drain. I realize that stainless has antimicrobial properties but I feel this is an easy step to guarantee any issues.

Can a CIP ball guarantee the same level of cleaning/sanitation vs the above method?

Cheers

 

[sibelman]

stainless has antimicrobial properties

Interesting idea. A bit of web reading confirms that anti-microbial surface treatments for stainless exist, but I was not able to quickly find confirmation that ordinary stainless steel itself is anti-microbial.

Even with your detailed (wow!) method, @Mr Drinklestien, your item 7 is truly necessary because sometimes residue on the interior is quite tough. I have trouble believing that CIP can match or beat a protocol like yours. Obviously, CIP can do well enough or it wouldn't even be a thing. Again, your item 7 seems crucial either way you go, notwithstanding some people's high confidence in their CIP processes

 

[day_trippr]

There may be some word play involved: stainless steel metal is unfriendly to microbial growth - but the true meaning of "antimicrobial" implies "microbicide".

"SS has all of the desired mechanical characteristics and is considered as a superior material for medical applications such as medical tools, hospital surfaces, implants etc. There is only one major drawback, which is its biological inertness [86]. It has practically no antibacterial effect."

Cheers!

 

[McMullan]

Can a CIP ball guarantee the same level of cleaning/sanitation vs the above method?

Yes, commercially, with the right chemicals (caustic then acid) at dangerous concentrations. At home-brew level, it’s not practical or as cost effective as a little initial elbow grease, before using something like hot PBW at a pretty high concentration.

Edit: Bugs don’t grow on thoroughly cleaned and dry stainless, because there’s nothing to support them. It’s not antimicrobial as such.

 

[PCABrewing]

I own a Spike CF 15 conical fermenter.

Can a CIP ball guarantee the same level of cleaning/sanitation vs the above method?

I say no.
There are too many areas where the CIP cannot hit with it's line-of-sight mode.
Like inside top of cavity of your valves, or the thin crevice where seals meet surfaces.

I use my CIP for bulk crud removal but disassemble for detailed cleaning and sanitizing. It looks pretty clean after the CIP but you can still find deposits.

Now if I were doing back to back brewing as some do I might try going 3-4 batches between disassembly.
I know some commercial brewers take that approach.

 

[PCABrewing]

There may be some word play involved: stainless steel metal is unfriendly to microbial growth - but the true meaning of "antimicrobial" implies "microbicide".

"SS has all of the desired mechanical characteristics and is considered as a superior material for medical applications such as medical tools, hospital surfaces, implants etc. There is only one major drawback, which is its biological inertness [86]. It has practically no antibacterial effect."

Cheers!

All that and, Stainless is not immune to bio-film development that can provide an environment for bacteria or fungal growth, in addition to being difficult to remove.

 

[IDMaynard]

I own a Spike CF 15 conical fermenter. Cleaning wise it's a complete disassembly, soak, scrub and clean. Whether its a spike or other brand of conical, what's your take on the disassembly vs. the CIP ball cleaning method. I always err on the side of caution when it comes to cleaning and sanitizing to eliminate any chance of contamination, therefore I follow the following method.

1) Remove the lid, blast the lid with a hot water and wipe away any residue.
2) Move conical outside blast the inside with hot water, crank open the valves and open the sample port and rinse away all surface residue possible
3) With a damp small sponge and PBW (add dry), scrub lid interior, ports and gasket seats. Rinse with hot water. Dry with towel.
4) Disassemble each component, blast with hot water and hit with the sponge. Place all components into a PBW soak for 24 hours.
5) Follow same method with the sponge and PBW and scrub the interior, ports and gasket seats, blast with hot water. Dry with towel
6) Discard sponge
7) Inspect lid and fermentor for any residue
8) Spray lid and conical with StarSan, place lid unto fermentor (gasket free)
9) 24 hours after PBW soak, remove components, gaskets, etc... from PBW. Scrub with paper towel (shouldn't be any heavy debris remaining and is so should wipe away easily). Blast/rise with hot water.
10) Place items into StarSan, I go anywhere from 1 hour to 24 hours depending on the time I have
11) Remove items from StarSan and reassemble to fermentor.
12) Open up all valves/sample ports and let air for 24 hours
13) Place a paper towel and elastic on the top 1.5" port and close off the sample port and valves and place storage caps on
14) Prior to transferring wort to fermenter on next brew i give it a quick squirt of StarSan via spray bottle and open the valves to let it drain. I realize that stainless has antimicrobial properties but I feel this is an easy step to guarantee any issues.

Can a CIP ball guarantee the same level of cleaning/sanitation vs the above method?

Cheers

I use a CIP with PBW (30 minutes), rinse, then disassemble and store all the parts until my next batch, I reassemble and use the CIP again but with Iodophor until I am ready to fill it, then drain and transfer my cool wort.

 

[McMullan]

Iodophor is my preferred sanitiser for a clean FV on brew day or the night before. Highly effective and made for spray balls.

 

[Zenmeister]

I have a half BBL SS Brewtech Unitank. When cleaning I do many of the same things you do ... disassemble completely, pre-rinse the Unitank with water, individually scrub all those parts. Then I use a CIP with a 1/2 HP pump and 165 degree water for 10 minutes, first with PBW, and then two five minute rinses with clean 165 degree water. When done, the Unitank comes out sparkling clean and I have never noticed deposits of crud left behind. I have been doing this for four years and have never had an issue.

Because of the design of the Unitank, and its size, it would be very difficult, if not impossible to hand clean effectively anyways.

 

[sibelman]

for a clean FV

Yes, I suspect a CIP ball would do a great job of spreading sanitizer inside the clean fermenter. Getting it really clean is where my CIP doubts lie.

 

[sibelman]

I use a CIP with PBW (30 minutes), rinse, then disassemble

When you disassemble, do you ever/never find gunk that CIP missed?

 

[IDMaynard]

When you disassemble, do you ever/never find gunk that CIP missed?

Not really, I have had stuff in the sample valve but that is because it stays closed during cleaning I check everything during disassembly so if something is there I wipe it clean and I always sanitize on brew day.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

In less words I do the same deep clean routine as the OP. On my Spike CF10, each removed part after cleaning is sanitized before assembly. I then open all the valves, top removed and spray sanitizer on all surfaces including the top. After it's dry I put the top back on and close the valves.

I tried CIP but haven't had the same level of cleaning.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Just to add, I feel completely disassembling is the best way to properly clean and sanitize. It's time well spent considering a pin head size of gunk could ruin your entire batch of beer, and I speak from experience!

 

[IDMaynard]

I use a CIP with PBW (30 minutes), rinse, then disassemble and store all the parts until my next batch, I reassemble and use the CIP again but with Iodophor until I am ready to fill it, then drain and transfer my cool wort.

I should mention that I have a CIP that fits the 4" center port on the lid. I remove the chiller coil when cleaning my CF5.

 

[Mr Drinklestien]

Just to add, I feel completely disassembling is the best way to properly clean and sanitize. It's time well spent considering a pin head size of gunk could ruin your entire batch of beer, and I speak from experience!

Yeah, I completely agree. It takes an extra 30 minutes to disassemble/clean/reassemble. Mitigates most the risk. Good info from all sides.
Cheers

 

[Brooothru]

I remove all valves, fittings, sight glasses, etc. Anything that attaches to a TC. They all get cleaned individually. Then every TC attachment point gets a brushing to break loose any accumulated crud inside between the outlet and the inside of the FV. Once wiped down, I cap each outlet except the bottom cone drain and give the inside an aggressive spray down to 'rough clean' the interior surfaces. Attach the recirc inlet hose to the bottom cone, fill the FV ¼ full of hot water and PBW, attach the CIP to the dome of the FV and let 'er rip with a ¾ hp portable sump pump for :20 minutes.

Drain, rinse, repeat with non-foaming SaniClean or iodophor for :20. Drain, remove CIP ball and cap the dome lid. Allow any fluids to drain through the bottom port, and air dry. Seal all the TC ports.

Soak and hand clean all attachments. Spray with StarSan and air dry. Bag all attachments in Ziplock bags and store for future use. No infections since incorporating these protocols (5+ years).