How much do you worry about your fermentation temps?

[ashyg]

All my brews have had a kind of off flavor to them that I can only describe as "homebrew taste". It's a weird kind of buttery and cardboardy flavor and I'm not sure what's causing it. I use yeast starters and ferment in my basement, but I have no way of controlling the temperature, which ranges between 65 and 72 degrees depending on the time of day.

Do you think these strange off-flavors are the result of poor control over fermentation temperature? What do you use to control your fermentation temperature, a "Son of Fermentation Chiller", chest freezer, fridge, or what? What are the pros/cons of each?

 

[92greenyj]

Honestly, the only time I do a controlled temp is the rare Lager or Bock. All of my other beers I ferment at ambient temperature in my garage. I've not noticed any odd flavors because of it

 

[Nateo]

What's your process? Sounds like diacetyl to me, and maybe oxidation. Those are not related to fermentation temps.

Make sure you leave your beer in the primary fermenter long enough. I do 3-4 weeks. Also take lots of care not to aerate your beer after it has fermented, like when you're transferring it.

 

[ForRealBeer]

I think that the one thing that's made my beer better over the past several years is getting a small chest freezer and controlling my fermentation temps much better than I can with ambient temps. I live in the south, and in the summer, it's 72-73 degrees inside and that's a little warm for the clean taste I generally like in many of my brews. In the same unit, I can crank it down to 59 degrees and make very crisp Kolsch-style brews and eliminate any esters as well.

Belgian Strong Ales, though, I don't really care and brew em inside.

Buttery says "diacetyls" to me, and that may mean you are not letting your fermentation completely finish before you bottle or keg your brews.

Cardboard may be a result of oxygenation in your brew, and there are lots of opportunities to do that. Carefully and quietly transfer the brew without splashing or aeration, especially after fermentation, for example. May be a good time to review your methods and compare them to recommended practices just to be sure you aren't overlooking something somewhere.

 

[Yooper]

I'm of the opinion that proper fermentation temperatures are THE single best key to making good beer.

I have this set up:

This works great, because I add water to the cooler, and then can add a frozen water bottle to the water bath and can control the temperature that way. I float a floating thermometer in the water bath, to easily check the temperature. When it's cold, I can lager in it like that. Or, I can add an aquarium heater (less than $10) to the water bath and bring the temperature UP if I need to.

Now, as far as your off-flavors go, "buttery" sounds like diacetyl from stressed yeast. It could be the temperatures, or it could be that you didn't leave the beer on the yeast long enough to clean up. That should be easy to fix- make sure you pitch the proper amount of yeast at the proper temperature (Don't pitch at 85 degrees, and then let the temperature drop, for example!) and then leave it sit on the yeast for at least 3 days after fermentation ends.

"Cardboard" could be a couple of things, from oxidation to high fermentation temperatures. Try to rule out oxidation by thinking of your procedures in racking/bottling. If you never, ever, allow the beer to splash, and are super careful to not oxidize during transfer, it may not be oxidation.

 

[sensortech]

Funny you should say "homebrew taste" because that's what all of my beers used to have until I switched to All grain brewing. I ferment exactly is the same place and don't really worry about temp. Every All grain I've done has been outstanding, and WITHOUT that peculiar off taste.

 

[kanzimonson]

I've done a lot of thinking about the ubiquitous "homebrew taste" and have narrowed it down to three (frequently simultaneous) causes:

1) Oxidation leads to cardboard taste. When we're new, we're not as conscious of oxidation. Especially when it comes to aging times and temps.
2) Hot fermentation leads to hot alcohols and nasty, spicy, phenolic flavors. This is a huge culprit. A lot of us (like me) learn about this problem when they try to ferment in the summer at ambient temps.
3) Not clarifying your beer leads to yeast bite. Almost every new brewer uses S-05, wlp001, wyeast 1056, because it's a pretty forgiving yeast. But this yeast's main con is the entire reason I hate it - it's a terrible flocculator. One bump to the fermenter and your entire batch is cloudy with yeast (exaggerating). Try to get less yeast in the final product, and watch your pouring from the bottle and you can avoid this problem. And I recommend S-04 for better flocculation.

To actually answer the question, I think taking care of your beer at the microbiological level is the most important thing to making great beer. You can throw practically any grain bill, any hop schedule, and any yeast together and it will be fine so long as you 1) ensure yeast are the dominant organism and 2) ferment at ideal temps for that yeast strain's flavor profile. I noticed a HUGE leap in quality when I began paying 90% of my attention to these things.

 

[ForRealBeer]

Funny you should say "homebrew taste" because that's what all of my beers used to have until I switched to All grain brewing. I ferment exactly is the same place and don't really worry about temp. Every All grain I've done has been outstanding, and WITHOUT that peculiar off taste.

I can second that. Back in my extract days, I could never quite get the twang out, at least like I can now. Having control of the product from grain to glass is really the way to go, but as others say, you can win competitions with extract brews. Me, I like the lower cost and the control I get with a sack of seeds.

 

[Walker]

I'm of the opinion that proper fermentation temperatures are THE single best key to making good beer.

Wasn't this actually put to a vote on here several months ago? Someone put up a poll asking what people believed to be the most important thing and temp control was far and away the winner.

edit: I have a large fridge in the garage with external thermostat. I've been controlling my temps with that for the last 5 years and would never go back.

 

[riromero]

Temperature control resulted in the single largest improvement in my beer's taste. But then I also live where 40F daily temperature shifts are common between day and night. Constant temperature on the lower end of the yeast's temperature range is what I'm usually shooting for.

 

[arturo7]

How much do I worry? None. Credit goes to a ferm fridge.

 

[tunoffun]

I'm of the opinion that proper fermentation temperatures are THE single best key to making good beer.

Ditto that. And the single best key to making consistent, reproducible beer as well.

 

[funkswing]

I second the spare fridge with an external temp. controller. I have used one of these for as long as I can remember. Controlling fermentation temp accurately is by far the most crucial step to fermenting. Chest freezers are generally used to store kegs and upright fridges are used for carboys/buckets. Just easier to get a full carboy in and out of an upright fridge.

The oxidation could be coming from old extract. You didn't say, but we are assuming you do extract brews.

 

[pretzelb]

I have a cooler setup very similar to Yooper_Brew except I have the top attached and I use a towel to keep the light out (I should modify the top to do the same thing though). It's kind of necessary for me being in a warm climate where the temp inside goes into the 77 range. What I should do is brew something that thrives in that temp range but I like to be able to brew what I want when I want. The problem is I only have 1 cooler for this now so that means I can't get more than one going at a time.

I think it has a fairly big impact. But if you have a range of 65 to 72 you should be good for many ale strains. That range sounds like the range most of the require on the instructions. But I also agree that switching to all grain also took the "homebrew" taste out of it.

 

[floyd242]

Does pitching at 75-80 and then cooling down to 65 in my fermentation chamber really make that much of a difference? That's what I usually do.

 

[JorgeIsKing]

Just thought I'd throw this out there for OP.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter21-2.html

That's a good guide to off flavors, but I would also suggest reading the whole site (or buying the book) if you haven't already.

 

[funkswing]

floyd242 - yes it does. Most of the esters and off-flavors associated with high fermentation temp. occur before you sign airlock activity. Its when the yeast is building up its nutrient reserves to ferment the wort.

So, pitch at the fermentation temp!

 

[TomSD]

I like the freedom and peace of mind a fermentation chamber gives. My old brews all suffered from wildly fluctuating temps during fermentation and suffered for it.

Since I've come here though I've changed quite a few things in how I brew... the biggest being the fermentation chamber. The difference is significant and that is just with a mutant franken euro ale thing I made out of stuff I had left over, lol. I can only imagine the difference it will make in a real recipe.

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Temperature is EVERYTHING! Fermentation temps, mash temps, pitching temps, in my opinoion are more important than building a huge starter, or anything else. Temperature is everything.

 

[gwt]

Once I started fermenting ales in the low 60's and pitching in the mid 60's my beer went from drinkable to some would say excellent. Lower temps (60's) will eliminate many off flavors, such as esters etc. Also, I almost always allow my ales to sit 3 weeks in primary, this gives the yeast plenty of time to clean up after themselves.

 

[Shooter]

Temperature is EVERYTHING! Fermentation temps, mash temps, pitching temps, in my opinoion are more important than building a huge starter, or anything else. Temperature is everything.

Yes, but how do you feel about TEMPERATURE?!?!?

P.S. I also feel temp control it is rather important. At least, that's when my beers took the biggest leap in quality.

 

[remilard]

I guess I don't worry much about temperature because I have two digitally controlled fermentation areas (freezers with heating pads and two stage controllers). I'm thinking about increasing this to 3 as I find I often want to brew a lot and I like to leave beers in the primary for 2 weeks (with temp control and good yeast practices fermentation is done in 4 days for ales and I can often move them at 7 days with no ill effect, but better safe than sorry as they say).

If you want to make the best beer, spend more time and money on the cold side than the hot side.

 

[ashyg]

Cardboard may be a result of oxygenation in your brew, and there are lots of opportunities to do that. Carefully and quietly transfer the brew without splashing or aeration, especially after fermentation, for example. May be a good time to review your methods and compare them to recommended practices just to be sure you aren't overlooking something somewhere.

On my last brew, I noted that flavor immediately after transferring to the bottling bucket after fermentation. I took care and used a wand-thing on the bottom of the bucket to prevent aeration.

 

[Yooper]

On my last brew, I noted that flavor immediately after transferring to the bottling bucket after fermentation. I took care and used a wand-thing on the bottom of the bucket to prevent aeration.

That's a good thing, but sometimes aeration can happen when racking or by stirring after fermentation begins. I'd do my best to prevent any possible change of oxygenation after fermenation starts. Did you rack the beer into a carboy, or into a bottling bucket? That's fine, as long as the end of the tube reaches the very bottom of the receiving vessel, so it doesn't splash in. Also, when mixing the priming solution in, be very careful to not stir it as to aerate it.

 

[g-star]

For those without a fermentation chamber, how tight of control over ferm temps is realistic?

I try to control my temps with the swamp cooler method, but I find it difficult to keep it within a degree or two. For example, I just used WLP013, which 66-71F is recommended. By changing out the frozen bottles, I've managed to keep it between 62-68F, but it is hard to keep it more consistent when I have to work and sleep. The ambient temp in my basement now is about 68F.

Any advice would be appreciated

 

[Yooper]

For those without a fermentation chamber, how tight of control over ferm temps is realistic?

I try to control my temps with the swamp cooler method, but I find it difficult to keep it within a degree or two. For example, I just used WLP013, which 66-71F is recommended. By changing out the frozen bottles, I've managed to keep it between 62-68F, but it is hard to keep it more consistent when I have to work and sleep. The ambient temp in my basement now is about 68F.

Any advice would be appreciated

That's not bad! If you use more water in the water bath, the temperature change will be even more gradually, as more volume takes much longer to change temperatures. In my cooler, I have the 5 gallons of fermenting beer in a water bath up to the level of the beer. It really takes a LONG time for the beer to change temperatures, even if the room temperature fluctuates.

 

[jfr1111]

That's not bad! If you use more water in the water bath, the temperature change will be even more gradually, as more volume takes much longer to change temperatures. In my cooler, I have the 5 gallons of fermenting beer in a water bath up to the level of the beer. It really takes a LONG time for the beer to change temperatures, even if the room temperature fluctuates.

That's also what I do. I keep my ambient temp at the level I want to ferment and add enough water so that the beer and water are the same level. This seems to insure that even when the fermentation is going hog wild, the temperature of the wort and water bath stay the same, providing you have some ice in there (for me, a single 2 liter bottle of frozen water). Water temp stays at 62-63 all the time.

So far, I've tasted all my (5) brews: no band-aids, bubblegum, fuesel, fruity taste, etc.

 

[stevedasleeve]

Hmm. I have a temp control but frankly I have not noticed that much of a difference! I *feel* better but my beers have always been awesome and the last -I don't know - 20 or so have been very carefully regulated and have also tasted awesome! FWIW I don't think I have ever gone over 75 F or under 64 f with or without tempt control. I went that route because I though I might want to do some lagers but so far I have just brewed ales, and a lot of them.

I might do a test.... actually I probably won't...!

 

[scrambledegg81]

I worry a lot less than I probably should. I've had batches go upwards of 85-90F at peak ferm (bought a different thermo-sticker for my primary). It's mainly to do with space & available resources in a tract house that was built in the 50's and currently has ancient insulation and no AC/central heat. Heck, my Belgian strong that's going right now hit around 75+ the day after it started.

 

[wildwest450]

Temperature is EVERYTHING! Fermentation temps, mash temps, pitching temps, in my opinoion are more important than building a huge starter, or anything else. Temperature is everything.

I politely disagree. If your doing all grain, I now believe water chemistry and ph is most important. If you start with bad water, nailing temps are of little use.

Certainly temps are a close second.

 

[lehr]

I politely disagree. If your doing all grain, I now believe water chemistry and ph is most important. If you start with bad water, nailing temps are of little use.

Certainly temps are a close second.

Bad water makes bad beer true but I think most off flavors are caused by ferm temps you can pick up that homebrew twang.

 

[funkswing]

wildwest - I would say that most people have water that is perfectly fine for brewing most styles. If you get city water, its fine (95% of the time). Generally problems arise when you have water that is high is sulfates or alkalinity. Then you have to start doing voodoo to get your water right (or buy water )

 

[wildwest450]

wildwest - I would say that most people have water that is perfectly fine for brewing most styles. If you get city water, its fine (95% of the time). Generally problems arise when you have water that is high is sulfates or alkalinity. Then you have to start doing voodoo to get your water right (or buy water )

Maybe fine for a style or two, but not most. I'm simply stating that if you start out with a strike, you're already behind. There's no arguing the merits of temp control in all phases of brewing. You should see me jump up and down in a rage when I miss my mash temp by more than a degree.

 

[funkswing]

You should see me jump up and down in a rage when I miss my mash temp by more than a degree.

Ha, and I thought I was the only one!

I agree with what you are saying. I do alter my water fairly often.