Help with bread making

[Hugh_Jass]

I'm getting kind of frustrated. I've been trying to make a good French/Italian loaf on and off for about a year now. 6 attempts = 6 fail. The flavor is great. I can't seem to get the inside of the loaf to be light with some air pockets. it's really dense.

I followed the recipe today in this bread book
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0393057941/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The flour was King Arthur bread flour. Yeast was proofed. I used my PID controlled electric ECB smoker to raise the dough. Everything seems o.k. going into the oven, but when it comes out it's a really dense loaf similar to what you'd get in a bread machine w/all purpose flour.

Help!

 

[jturb]

I am no means a bread expert but have made it a couple of times with pretty good results. How long did you let it rise for? Did you let it rise more than once? I have seen a thread on no knead bread that many people have had success with but I am yet to try it because I dont have a dutch oven, it may be worth a try.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f56/no-knead-slow-rise-bread-video-77859/

 

[evandy]

I usually have great luck with Birenbaum's Bread Bible. If you are getting a dense interior, then either the loaf isn't rising enough, you have developed too much gluten, or your water balance is off.

#1: Make SURE you measure ingredients using a scale. A scale that measures in grams is best. Since flour is compressible, weight is the ONLY way to accurately measure, and grams tends to be more accurate than ounces. A good kitchen scale will only set you back $40 or so.

How much are you deflating the loaf when you shape it for its second rise? You want to keep as much air in it as possible during this step.

Cut your loaf open; is the crumb even from top to bottom? What's the shape? These are clues to under/over risen. Keep in mind that if you bake on a stone (which you should), the very bottom will have a smaller crumb.

Do you add ice cubes/water to make a steam oven at the start of baking?

 

[Freezeblade]

A picture of what was wrong would be worth a thousand words in figuring out what in your process is causing the dense bread. The previous poster's suggestions are wonderful as well.

Irregular hole size in the crumb of bread is one of the hardest things to get down in home-bread baking. That, oven bloom, and baguette shaping.

 

[Hugh_Jass]

Sorry,
no pictures. The bread was o.k., but not where I'd like it to be. It's better than my MIL's bread machine bread, but still along the same line as far as density goes.

My process:

I kneed the dough by hand, folding 90* and compressing the dough. This is done for about 5 minutes. There's definitely a change in the texture when I'm done kneeding it. Then the dough goes into a home made, electric smoker with PID control. I keep the temp steady at 70*. It rises until it has at least doubled (I think this batch was closer to triple). It's then formed into a free standing loaf, covered and allowed to rise again. After it has re-risen, into a 425 oven until the outside gives a hollow sound when tapped with my finger.

I'll try the suggestions given above and check back. Thanks guys. I appreciate the help.

 

[evandy]

When you are kneading, be VERY careful about adding flour. Remember that you need to reserve your kneading flour from your initial mix. I have been kneading with my kitchenaid for years, and it helps remove the urge to add more flour.

If you aren't, you should put an old metal pan in the bottom of your oven, and add some water to the hot pan when you add your bread. This steam bath really helps with oven spring.

And as already suggested: a picture would really help.

By the way, rising temp isn't super critical. Higher temps take less time, but develop less flavor. Many of the best recipes call for a long overnight rise in tbd fridge of some or all of your dough for flavor development. Your temp controlled rise is probably overkill.

 

[Freezeblade]

Steam bath will help, making the hydration wetter (if it is dry) most of the bread I do has a hydration between 65-75% The latter being quite wet. Another way to perhaps get more holes in is to actually do the overnight rise in the fridge, post-shaping.

 

[Mermaid]

I've been making bread since I was a kid. Getting French and Italian bread to come out as nice as the bakeries, takes a bit of practice (and a bit more time).

The best bread I've made was when I let the initial rise take place in a somewhat cooler environment, over a longer period of time. For some reason, it gives me better flavor.

Knead the bejeesus out of it. work it work it work it. Definitely weigh your ingredients with a scale, flour by volume can be misleading.

Get a super sharp knife, the sharpest non-serrated blade you've got to score the loaf on the top.

Preheat your oven to a few degrees over what the recipe calls for, put a 13 x 9 pan on the bottom rack of the oven with some hot water in it. Then bake.

The steam heat really helps on French baguettes and Italian bread.

As with homebrewing, bread is a "slow food". You can certainly bake a loaf of bread in 3 hours, but I find that when I actually give myself plenty of time to "create" bread - it comes out really nice.