Help me make sense of all this 1st time All Grain data

[Newtobrewing85]

Hey everyone,

So I did a 1st all grain brew yesterday in my Anvil Foundry 6.5.

This was the kit: Haze Craze IPA - All Grain Beer Brewing Kit (5 Gallons) | MoreBeer

I couldn’t figure out water really so I ended up using spring water. Report here:

https://www.kroger.com/content/v2/binary/document/info/terms/water-quality_report-1603746386542.pdf

So I milled for the first time yesterday too. Was a bit of a learning curve as the handle only goes one direction and I kept going backwards knocking grain into the bucket lol. I tried .35-5 and I settled on roughly .5-.6 which now I’m thinking was wrong. I might not have been milling fast enough or something because at the lower .35 area it wouldn’t go, it would just stick and I couldn’t get the grain to go through with using the handle, handle spun, grain stayed. I ended up making it bigger until I gave up and grabbed a drill, which will be the only way going forward.

Numbers:
10lb 2 row pale
1lb flaked oats
1lb flaked wheat
8oz Carapils
8oz wheat malt
4oz honey malt

Recipe calls for an OG of 1.061-1.063 and an est ABV of 6.4%

side note, what is an SRM and does it matter?

K so started the anvil, had a leaking issue, frustrating, the spigot was loose I guess after the last time I used it on an extract.

Everything I used was per anvils instructions
Strike water was 160F for 13.4lbs of grain
Mash temp was 153-154F, had issue getting the temp down so I stirred for a few minutes and added a little cold water. Is this a no no?
60 minute mash
170F sparge with a gallon of water brought me to about 6.25 gallons pre-boil. Which in hindsight I should have only gone to about 6 gallons to hit 5.5 in the fermenter after 1/2 gallon boil off. Yes?

Pre-boil I was an 8 on Brix or roughly 1.034 on the SG wort per refractometer.

1 hour boil
Add hops per instructions
Pitch yeast (Wyeast London Ale III) at 68F
Check OG 1.051
5 5/8 ish gallons in the fermenter

I tried using some of these efficiency calculators but I’m confused on picking out the grains and stuff used. There’s a ton of 2 row pales, which do I choose? I did one and it came back at like 38% which would be abysmal. Did I really do that badly?

I have the Brewfather app but I haven’t used it yet, I’m guessing this might have helped with better figuring out water volumes than the generic anvil book?

Any feedback is appreciated, sorry for the jumbled mess of a post, thinking as I type.

Should add its fermenting right now at about 65F in the closet. I’ve got a heater on it to keep it in the 65-72 range and it’s already going so that’s at least a good sign.

 

[3 Dawg Night]

Welcome to the world of all-grain!

Yeah, that crush looks too course to me. The low OG confirms it.

I recommend John Palmer's "How to Brew." For good details on the all-grain process. An older edition of the book is available online for free.

On your mill, the handle should be attached to one of the rollers. Just remember that you always want to turn it toward the center (between the two rollers), and that should keep you from turning it backwards. Although, if your gap is set correctly, turning it backwards shouldn't drop any uncrushed kernels. Oh, and the drill is definitely the way to go.

On strike temp, keep good notes on strike temp vs. target mash temp and adjust on future brews. You shouldn't need to add cold water unless you're way off. Stirring for a few minutes usually does the trick.

I usually plan on ~7 gal pre-boil, ~6 gal post-boil, and ~5.5 into the fermenter. This gets me 5 gallons at bottling time.

What's the unheated temperature of your closet? Once the yeast take off, it will start warming up, so keeping it cool will likely be more important than keeping it warm.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Welcome to the world of all-grain!

Yeah, that crush looks too course to me. The low OG confirms it.

I recommend John Palmer's "How to Brew." For good details on the all-grain process. An older edition of the book is available online for free.

On your mill, the handle should be attached to one of the rollers. Just remember that you always want to turn it toward the center (between the two rollers), and that should keep you from turning it backwards. Although, if your gap is set correctly, turning it backwards shouldn't drop any uncrushed kernels. Oh, and the drill is definitely the way to go.

On strike temp, keep good notes on strike temp vs. target mash temp and adjust on future brews. You shouldn't need to add cold water unless you're way off. Stirring for a few minutes usually does the trick.

I usually plan on ~7 gal pre-boil, ~6 gal post-boil, and ~5.5 into the fermenter. This gets me 5 gallons at bottling time.

What's the unheated temperature of your closet? Once the yeast take off, it will start warming up, so keeping it cool will likely be more important than keeping it warm.

I have the Palmer book, haven’t finished reading through all of it yet. I ended up getting a liquid yeast (when I bought dry) and it needed to be used and it was my only weekend I had off really so I kinda had to get it done.

Good call on the milling, I can adjust in the future. It’s all a learning process anyways.

It might be a design flaw on the grain mill. If you roll it counter clockwise it’ll catch grain and push it out.

Strike was 160, after mash it was still about 157ish so I added a bit of water. Someone said that online, not sure where. But I didn’t know if a couple minutes above the target was a big deal so I wanted to cool it down.

Sounds like I’m not too far off on my post-boil volume than so that’s good.

Closet is about 59.4F right now. It’s above my crawl space so it’s a bit cooler than the rest of the house. I cracked the door a little and I have the heater at 66 with the sensor taped to the side of the fermenter covered in bubble wrap. It’s more to just make sure it doesn’t cool down too much, it’s hooked to an ink bird WiFi controller so it turns on and off when needed.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Pre-boil I was an 8 on Brix or roughly 1.034 on the SG wort per refractometer.

Don't read the 1.xxx SG directly on the refractometer. Refractometers must be read in Brix then converted to SG via a calculator. Absolutely ignore the refractometer's SG scale.

For any gravity readings taken after yeast is pitched you'll need the current Brix reading in addition to the OG. Part II in this link.

1.04 is a decent default wort correction factor.

Calibrate to 0.0Bx with distilled water.

Most refractometers have auto temp correction. This doesn't mean it will read wort at any temp. The wort must be at the same temp as the refractometer.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Don't read the 1.xxx SG directly on the refractometer. Refractometers must be read in Brix then converted to SG via a calculator. Absolutely ignore the refractometer's SG scale.

For any gravity readings taken after yeast is pitched you'll need the current Brix reading in addition to the OG. Part II in this link.

1.04 is a decent default wort correction factor.

Calibrate to 0.0Bx with distilled water.

Most refractometers have auto temp correction. This doesn't mean it will read wort at any temp. The wort must be at the same temp as the refractometer.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/refractometer-calculator/

Ahh. Interesting. That lowers the gravity more. That sucks lol. This refractometer does have ATC, yes. Didn’t know about the temp though, oops. Thanks for the info.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Ahh. Interesting. That lowers the gravity more. That sucks lol. This refractometer does have ATC, yes. Didn’t know about the temp though, oops. Thanks for the info.

Refractometers are great tools, but they do require adherence to some best practices.

I will usually pull a few teaspoons into a ramekin and let it sit on the counter (covered to prevent evaporation) next to the refractometer for 10min or so. Then I'll take 2-3 readings spaced maybe 5min apart. Often the first reading is lower than the second and third. I've learned to hold off a few more minutes on the first reading and now all three will usually agree within .1-.2 Bx. The 10-15m wait will also allow some of the solids to settle out allowing a more distinct reading. I'll actually set the edge of the ramekin on something so the solids settle into the corner.

Also, be sure the wort is thoroughly mixed before pulling your sample.

As to ATC, it'll let you use the refractometer whether in your 70° kitchen or 60° garage. Very helpful. But the wort needs to be cooled/warmed to that respective temp. I keep most of my gear in the cool basement, but I keep the refractometer in a kitchen drawer which is where I brew and bottle. That way, it's always fully acclimatized to measuring temp.

Like I said, there are some best practices to get more accurate readings. Search the forum and you're sure to find some discussions.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Refractometers are great tools, but they do require adherence to some best practices.

I will usually pull a few teaspoons into a ramekin and let it sit on the counter (covered to prevent evaporation) next to the refractometer for 10min or so. Then I'll take 2-3 readings spaced maybe 5min apart. Often the first reading is lower than the second and third. I've learned to hold off a few more minutes on the first reading and now all three will usually agree within .1-.2 Bx. The 10-15m wait will also allow some of the solids to settle out allowing a more distinct reading. I'll actually set the edge of the ramekin on something so the solids settle into the corner.

Also, be sure the wort is thoroughly mixed before pulling your sample.

As to ATC, it'll let you use the refractometer whether in your 70° kitchen or 60° garage. Very helpful. But the wort needs to be cooled/warmed to that respective temp. I keep most of my gear in the cool basement, but I keep the refractometer in a kitchen drawer which is where I brew and bottle. That way, it's always fully acclimatized to measuring temp.

Like I said, there are some best practices to get more accurate readings. Search the forum and you're sure to find some discussions.

Great info! Thanks! I’ll use the hydrometer for the final reading and we’ll see where I end up! Hopefully it’s close enough and tastes like an IPA.

 

[DBhomebrew]

side note, what is an SRM and does it matter?

A measurement of color. Does it matter? That's up to you. I couldn't care less.

Clarification: I don't care about the color of my finished beer, but I do pay attention to a grain's specified wort color. In the States usually expressed in °L, it reflects a grain's flavor contribution.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

A measurement of color. Does it matter? That's up to you. I couldn't care less.

Clarification: I don't care about the color of my finished beer, but I do pay attention to a grain's specified wort color. In the States usually expressed in °L, it reflects a grain's flavor contribution.

Ohhhh that’s the color chart in my how to brew book! Perfect. Recipe says 4.3-4.7 and I’m right about that so that’s good.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Stupid question. My anvil was being a PITA yesterday and I couldn’t use the spigot to avoid most of the trub and hops. I had to just dump the beer in my fermenter and a ton of those hops transferred and are floating on top. But I also have 4 more hop additions, how the hell do I bottle this with that much crap in there? I use a catalyst so I only have the one.

 

[dwhite60]

The gravity reading on my refractometer is dead on with my hydrometer. Maybe I got lucky.

For a first time all grain brew you did very well. Adding cold water to bring the mash temp down isn't a problem.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

The gravity reading on my refractometer is dead on with my hydrometer. Maybe I got lucky.

For a first time all grain brew you did very well. Adding cold water to bring the mash temp down isn't a problem.

My Brix are a bit off from the calculator someone else posted, I think .02 which isn’t too bad.

Thank you though, I appreciate that!

 

[NSMikeD]

Fwiw. Plastic shot glasses are great for holding wort/beer while you wait fir the temp to adjust. I also use them to hold the hop additions.

IME, the strike temps are too high for the Anvil 6.5. Now I go 2* above mash temp and leave the power at 100% while I stir in the grain. Once it’s in, I change the temp to the target mash and get the pump going. My lager on Saturday ramped up about 2* above mash temp fir a minute before dropping back. I assume that’s due to variances in the mash itself until the pump gets everything in equilibrium. If you don’t have the pump, stir to keep hot and cold spots from forming.

If you are using standard strike temps, make sure you power off or reprogram to mash target before adding grain otherwise the unit will heat up as the grain starts dropping the temp.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

But the wort needs to be cooled/warmed to that respective temp.

This does not line up with what I have read. My understanding is that the few drops of hot wort are not enough to cause an issue. I do not cool my wort, and if I had to cool it just to take a reading it would make the refractometer near useless to me.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Fwiw. Plastic shot glasses are great for holding wort/beer while you wait fir the temp to adjust. I also use them to hold the hop additions.

IME, the strike temps are too high for the Anvil 6.5. Now I go 2* above mash temp and leave the power at 100% while I stir in the grain. Once it’s in, I change the temp to the target mash and get the pump going. My lager on Saturday ramped up about 2* above mash temp fir a minute before dropping back. I assume that’s due to variances in the mash itself until the pump gets everything in equilibrium. If you don’t have the pump, stir to keep hot and cold spots from forming.

If you are using standard strike temps, make sure you power off or reprogram to mash target before adding grain otherwise the unit will heat up as the grain starts dropping the temp.

Good call, it probably was heating up while I was stirring the grains in, i turned it down once i had them in. I did stir good before I closed it and roughly every 15 minutes after that since I don’t recirculate. These are all the small things I’m learning as I go. I’m 3 beers into my beer brewing life and the first one was only a 1 gallon

 

[Newtobrewing85]

This does not line up with what I have read. My understanding is that the few drops of hot wort are not enough to cause an issue. I do not cool my wort, and if I had to cool it just to take a reading it would make the refractometer near useless to me.

Guess I’ll test this next time. Check it hot and record and then let it sit and record.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Let me ask another question. Let’s say I go to mash and at 60 minutes, before pulling, I check my OG, it’s low. Would you pull and add DME or can you just extend the mash another 30 minutes to extract more sugars?

 

[Birrofilo]

Let me ask another question. Let’s say I go to mash and at 60 minutes, before pulling, I check my OG, it’s low. Would you pull and add DME or can you just extend the mash another 30 minutes to extract more sugars?

By extending the mash time you wouldn't really extract much more sugars. Those sugars which were in the grains have been mostly extracted in the water already. By extending the mash you are changing its characteristics regarding fermentability. By giving more time to the enzymes to operate, you will increase the number of simple sugar molecules at the expenses of the number of complex sugar molecules, and this will give you a beer with more alcohol and less body.

Efficiency in extraction of sugar is to be solved with a better milling. Sparging (rinsing your grains with water so as to let the grain full with water instead of full with wort) will also help you get the sugar in your beer rather than throwing them away with the grains.

Also, the practice of "decoction mashing", which you find in Palmers' book I think, would also extract a little sugar more from the grains than an usual mono-step mash.

 

[IslandLizard]

This does not line up with what I have read. My understanding is that the few drops of hot wort are not enough to cause an issue. I do not cool my wort, and if I had to cool it just to take a reading it would make the refractometer near useless to me.

That's what I've gathered too. Due to the mass of the glass prism 1-2 drops of hot (near boiling) wort won't change the temp enough to skew your reading.

But something else will, and very much so: Evaporation!
And it will inflate your gravity reading.
So it's advantageous to let your sample cool down quite a bit before dropping it onto the prism.

I stick the bulb end of the sample pipette, containing 1-2 ml of wort, into a container with cold water, and give it a minute, maybe give it a swirl once or twice.

Or similarly to @DBhomebrew, scoop some wort out (~1/8-1/4 cup) with a deep stainless (measuring) cup and let it sit for a few minutes to cool down. It may still evaporation somewhat, but since it's a much larger volume, the error/skew is far less. Or cover it to reduce evap.

 

[IslandLizard]

Don't read the 1.xxx SG directly on the refractometer. Refractometers must be read in Brix then converted to SG via a calculator. Absolutely ignore the refractometer's SG scale.

Although that's correct, the systematic error on the refractometer SG scale is quite minimal, especially at lower gravities. For a quick indication of your gravity, the direct SG reading is good (and close) enough, at least in my book.

Even a few points difference from the recipe won't be significant enough to notice in the final beer. E.g., a 1.057 or 1.063 beer vs. the recipe's 1.060.

 

[Birrofilo]

Don't read the 1.xxx SG directly on the refractometer. Refractometers must be read in Brix then converted to SG via a calculator. Absolutely ignore the refractometer's SG scale.

Why? For each Brix value there is a SG value which is correct, and is the one on the scale.

SG and °Brix do not correlate linearly, and equally the two scales on the instrument do not correlate linearly, but they are correct value to value. An analogic refractometer will show the value directly on the viewfinder. A digital refractometer will convert the RI to the SG value with the same precision as a RI to the Brix value (it will just use a different lookup table).

 

[Birrofilo]

For cooling a sample I use an aluminium cup for backpacking which I put in bain-marie in cold water.

 

[DBhomebrew]

Although that's correct, the systematic error on the refractometer SG scale is quite minimal, especially at lower gravities. For a quick indication of your gravity, the direct SG reading is good (and close) enough, at least in my book.

Even a few points difference from the recipe won't be significant enough to notice in the final beer. E.g., a 1.057 or 1.063 beer vs. the recipe's 1.060.

I would agree with that for the most part. Although for someone like the OP now, and myself a year and two dozen batches ago, who is sifting through a ton of half-understood data, every bit of accuracy, every pencil point that can be sharpened, is extremely helpful towards full understanding and therefore predictable beer.

Why? For each Brix value there is a SG value which is correct, and is the one on the scale.

SG and °Brix do not correlate linearly, and equally the two scales on the instrument do not correlate linearly, but they are correct value to value. An analogic refractometer will show the value directly on the viewfinder. A digital refractometer will convert the RI to the SG value with the same precision as a RI to the Brix value (it will just use a different lookup table).

My understanding is that refractometers are engineered for simple sucrose solutions. The calculators incorporate a wort correction factor to compensate for maltose and such. Common default for beer wort being 1.04.

As @IslandLizard mentions, the accuracy of the refractometer's SG scale is better at lower gravities. 4% off being less at 1.040 than at 1.080.

 

[Birrofilo]

My understanding is that refractometers are engineered for simple sucrose solutions. The calculators incorporate a wort correction factor to compensate for maltose and such. Common default for beer wort being 1.04.

As @IslandLizard mentions, the accuracy of the refractometer's SG scale is better at lower gravities. 4% off being less at 1.040 than at 1.080.

It's two different set of "problems".
One is that the scale in Brix is allegedly better, more precise than the scale in SG which is shown by the refractomer. That, I think, certainly doesn't hold true. The refractometer reads the refractive index of the solution and then converts it either in Brix or SG with the same precision.

The other is that a refractometer gives you the density of a water-sugar solution.

A wort is not exactly that and a correction factor is to be used but, considering the uncertainty regarding the correction factor (which varies from wort to wort and possibly from density to density), the density measurement with a refractometer applied to wort will always be, up to a certain extent, imprecise.

Also, if a refractometer is used to determine the density of a beer (during or after fermentation) another equation must be applied which in turn increases the possible mistake.

But the SG value and the Brix value of the refractomer are equally reliable (or equally unreliable, that is).

 

[DBhomebrew]

Like I said, there are some best practices to get more accurate readings. Search the forum and you're sure to find some discussions.

 

[CascadesBrewer]

I have gotten in the habit of reading the Brix value and converting using the tool in BeerSmith Mobile. My "Brix Correction Factor" that I got based off a couple readings compared to my hydrometer is 0.9797. Plugging 15 Birx into the calculator says 1.062, where the scale on my refractometer would read about 1.058. (I am not sure what the formula used by BeerSmith is.)

I feel like I have been getting more accurate readings using the conversion from Brix, but I generally just use my Refractometer for one the fly readings on brew day to let me know I am close. There were a few brews where my Refractometer readings let me to think I was low on gravity, but my hydrometer was where I expected. I then use my hydrometer for my "real" OG and FG numbers. I think my hydrometer is accurate...it at least reads 1.000 with distilled water.

 

[Birrofilo]

@CascadesBrewer

Yes, when you must use the correction factor, and you use the "Brix correction factor" you must apply it to the Brix value. Using the Brix correction factor applying it to the SG measure would certainly introduce a mistake. A "SG correction factor" would be needed.

 

[bwible]

Let me ask another question. Let’s say I go to mash and at 60 minutes, before pulling, I check my OG, it’s low. Would you pull and add DME or can you just extend the mash another 30 minutes to extract more sugars?

You can’t really check your batch OG with everything still in the mash tun. The first bit of runnings you pull are going to be higher in gravity than the total for the batch. This is mitigated some by recirculating with the pump. But if you are going to sparge later then those runnings from the sparge water are going to be much lower and will reduce your og.

After a few batches you’ll find your setting for efficiency. Measure after you collect all your wort using a hydrometer and remember to correct for temp. If you’re measuring 150 degree wort, you will add points to correct.

Then its simple math, its all gravity points. If I collect 5.5 gallons at 60 (1.060), thats 330 points. If I boil that down to 5 gallons, 330 / 5 means I expect to be at 1.066 post boil.

You also have to account for losses. You will have some water loss to grain, and you will lose wort to hops, trub, any “dead space” in your mash tun and kettle, and you will lose more to yeast waste and junk produced in the fermenter. I always calculate my grain bills with additional points or as higher volume to account for the losses.

But to answer the original question - If you come up short on gravity you can certainly add some DME to the kettle. Account for it as roughly 45 points per pound per gallon. So if you add 1 lb to a 5 gallon batch it would raise your batch og by about 9 points. Or to continue the example above, it would be 330 + 45 = 375. 375 / 5 = 75. So you would expect that 1 lb to raise you from 1.066 to 1.075.

 

[IslandLizard]

So I milled for the first time yesterday too. Was a bit of a learning curve as the handle only goes one direction and I kept going backwards knocking grain into the bucket lol. I tried .35-5 and I settled on roughly .5-.6 which now I’m thinking was wrong. I might not have been milling fast enough or something because at the lower .35 area it wouldn’t go, it would just stick and I couldn’t get the grain to go through with using the handle, handle spun, grain stayed. I ended up making it bigger until I gave up and grabbed a drill, which will be the only way going forward.

Back to your milling...

What brand mill is that? 2 rollers?
A mill gap of 0.035" on a (knurled) 2-roller mill should give you a good crush for most barley types. But not so for wheat and other small kernel grain, which ideally should be crushed separately on a narrower gap, such as 0.025".
You could check the gap with an (old) credit card, they're usually around 0.031-0.034" thick. Or use a feeler gauge set.

Although it depends on the mash system you're using, a gap of .050-.060" is likely much too coarse for a BIAB kind of system. That coarse of a crush, or even incomplete crush, really hurts your mash extraction and efficiency.

 

[NSMikeD]

Guess I’ll test this next time. Check it hot and record and then let it sit and record.

With BIAB there isn't a critical urgency in getting a reading. Your grain bill and water volumes are pretty much set. For me, it's just a way fine tuning my numbers for future batches as I tweak my process and seek consistency. Thus, I can leave the wort in the shot glass to cool off. With the foundry, it's not likely that you will be making any adjustment on the spot.

What am I really looking for? Did the software (or kit) predict accurately . I am look for clues if I miss the marks. If my OG was off, was my volume off - if not, then should I adjust my crush. Were my temps correct? Do I need to recalibrate my thermometers. Was my pH on target (I trust the software more than my pH meter, but any large misses may indicate something is amiss)?

Accurate gravity readings can be useful in confirming fermentation is done, but the reality for me is that I ferment in my primary at least 2 weeks and don't brew high ABV beers where this can be an issue. I take my readings when I keg and add that information to the rest of the data for the post mortem.

It's when I pour that first beer from the tap do these numbers really mean anything to me. Does the beer taste like I intended and do any of the numbers suggest that I need to change something in my process? AND that includes improving my taking measurements!


Don't sweat gravity readings for now, other than learning how to take accurate ones. For that matter, make sure you now how to calibrate your thermometers to make sure they aren't fooling you with false readings and pay attention volume measurements. IMO, if your temps and volumes are spot on, nature will take care of the rest and give you great beer.

 

[NSMikeD]

Back to your milling...

What brand mill is that? 2 rollers?
A mill gap of 0.035" on a (knurled) 2-roller mill should give you a good crush for most barley types. But not so for wheat and other small kernel grain, which ideally should be crushed separately on a narrower gap, such as 0.025".
You could check the gap with an (old) credit card, they're usually around 0.031-0.034" thick. Or use a feeler gauge set.

Although it depends on the mash system you're using, a gap of .050-.060" is likely much too coarse for a BIAB kind of system. That coarse of a crush, or even incomplete crush, really hurts your mash extraction and efficiency.

fwiw, I saw a 10pt increase in efficiency (mid-80's) this weekend dialing down my mill from the factory set 0.035" to closer to 0.030ish. I didn't measure but used the dial markings. I am suspecting the dial markings aren't that accurate as the crush was noticeably finer and at 0.025" the rollers jammed. I used rice hulls to keep the mash from getting stuck (no bag, just the anvil malt pipe and pump).

I guess my efficiency numbers and my eyes told me not to trust the dial settings,

 

[bwible]

A measurement of color. Does it matter? That's up to you. I couldn't care less.

Clarification: I don't care about the color of my finished beer, but I do pay attention to a grain's specified wort color. In the States usually expressed in °L, it reflects a grain's flavor contribution.

It matters if you want to brew to styles and if you plan to enter any homebrew competitions. Last I looked though, color was only 3 points. But it will still set a judge’s expectation and probably influence their total review negatively if its off by too much.

It matters much more with certain styles - like if you want to brew light lagers, Munich Helles, etc. If your color is 8 on any of these beers you’re way off. Irish Red is another beer that is notoriously difficult to get “just the right color”. In a porter or a stout, the difference between 45 and 70 would not be noticeable.

 

[NSMikeD]

Great info! Thanks! I’ll use the hydrometer for the final reading and we’ll see where I end up! Hopefully it’s close enough and tastes like an IPA.

You are brewing a NEIPA - a New England IPA. So we have British IPAs that are malty and hops are noble (subtle). Then the Americans on the West Coast cranked up the hops across the board on IPAs drowning out the malt but good lord, dong wonderful things to feature those cirtus/tropical hops.

Then the folks in New England dialed down the bittering hops to bring back balance with the malt, adding things like flaked oats and flaked wheat to add that smooth mouthful, and doubled down on the late addition and dry hops that the West coast IPAs had to create the latest craze in beer.

This will be a beer style you'll want to research and up your brew game over the years as it tests even the most expert brewers.

this weekend, after about a year of research, I finally too a stab at creating a recipe for me in BrewFather in hopes of making one for my next batch. Even have my yeast picked out. You and I share the same challenge in keeping oxygen out of the transfer stage - Im done buying equipment for now so it is what it is.

 

[Smudgey]

it would just stick and I couldn’t get the grain to go through with using the handle, handle spun, grain stayed.

I notice no one's mentioned conditioning your grain with a bit of water. I have worn knurling on my mill, and rollers spinning without grain pick-up drove me crazy mad initially - a really frustrating start and not the mind-set you need for a fun, stress-free and often related: screw-up free brew day.
Mix a good tablespoon of water/KG into the grain (2% by weight) 5-10 minutes before you mill: milling problem solved. Your mill (if its like mine) will suddenly pick and grind in a long satisfying rumble at 0.030" again. You also run less risk of fractured rather than softly split husks and then extracting that harsh tannin bitterness (thats just somehow different from hop bitterness) from the husks. Dont use too much water, or leave it so long that the inner grain gets soft - you still want the kernels nice and friable so each grain cracks into 5 or 6 bits with some gritty flour in the gris as change. Its so much quicker for me I mill the whole grain bill straight into the mash now. I also mix in any mash water additions in while I'm mixing the water through to help the mash ph resolve faster and evenly.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

You can’t really check your batch OG with everything still in the mash tun. The first bit of runnings you pull are going to be higher in gravity than the total for the batch. This is mitigated some by recirculating with the pump. But if you are going to sparge later then those runnings from the sparge water are going to be much lower and will reduce your og.

After a few batches you’ll find your setting for efficiency. Measure after you collect all your wort using a hydrometer and remember to correct for temp. If you’re measuring 150 degree wort, you will add points to correct.

Then its simple math, its all gravity points. If I collect 5.5 gallons at 60 (1.060), thats 330 points. If I boil that down to 5 gallons, 330 / 5 means I expect to be at 1.066 post boil.

You also have to account for losses. You will have some water loss to grain, and you will lose wort to hops, trub, any “dead space” in your mash tun and kettle, and you will lose more to yeast waste and junk produced in the fermenter. I always calculate my grain bills with additional points or as higher volume to account for the losses.

But to answer the original question - If you come up short on gravity you can certainly add some DME to the kettle. Account for it as roughly 45 points per pound per gallon. So if you add 1 lb to a 5 gallon batch it would raise your batch og by about 9 points. Or to continue the example above, it would be 330 + 45 = 375. 375 / 5 = 75. So you would expect that 1 lb to raise you from 1.066 to 1.075.

That makes sense, so I guess after 60 minutes, I can pull and check. I don’t follow the point logic though, is that in the Palmer book? I admittedly need to do more reading and learning.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

Back to your milling...

What brand mill is that? 2 rollers?
A mill gap of 0.035" on a (knurled) 2-roller mill should give you a good crush for most barley types. But not so for wheat and other small kernel grain, which ideally should be crushed separately on a narrower gap, such as 0.025".
You could check the gap with an (old) credit card, they're usually around 0.031-0.034" thick. Or use a feeler gauge set.

Although it depends on the mash system you're using, a gap of .050-.060" is likely much too coarse for a BIAB kind of system. That coarse of a crush, or even incomplete crush, really hurts your mash extraction and efficiency.

It’s a cereal killer from adventures in home brewing, it’s a 2 roller, yes. That might explain most of my issues so hopefully the next batch is an easy fix. I heard the credit card thing and I did that at first but it seemed to pulverize the few kernels I ran through so I was nervous. I settled on the .45-5 which seemed to crack the grain open but not destroy it, which is what I thought you wanted to do. After I added all the grain I kept going the wrong direction and it was falling through lol. So I got frustrated and I thought I screwed up and made it wider. I still couldn’t get the thing to go so I added the drill to the equation and it was easy. So likely all the issue was, was lack of the drill. I was spinning that handle and nothing was happening but it was a 1st time so everything is a learning experience thankfully.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

With BIAB there isn't a critical urgency in getting a reading. Your grain bill and water volumes are pretty much set. For me, it's just a way fine tuning my numbers for future batches as I tweak my process and seek consistency. Thus, I can leave the wort in the shot glass to cool off. With the foundry, it's not likely that you will be making any adjustment on the spot.

What am I really looking for? Did the software (or kit) predict accurately . I am look for clues if I miss the marks. If my OG was off, was my volume off - if not, then should I adjust my crush. Were my temps correct? Do I need to recalibrate my thermometers. Was my pH on target (I trust the software more than my pH meter, but any large misses may indicate something is amiss)?

Accurate gravity readings can be useful in confirming fermentation is done, but the reality for me is that I ferment in my primary at least 2 weeks and don't brew high ABV beers where this can be an issue. I take my readings when I keg and add that information to the rest of the data for the post mortem.

It's when I pour that first beer from the tap do these numbers really mean anything to me. Does the beer taste like I intended and do any of the numbers suggest that I need to change something in my process? AND that includes improving my taking measurements!


Don't sweat gravity readings for now, other than learning how to take accurate ones. For that matter, make sure you now how to calibrate your thermometers to make sure they aren't fooling you with false readings and pay attention volume measurements. IMO, if your temps and volumes are spot on, nature will take care of the rest and give you great beer.

Thanks! Yeah I wanted to make sure I had a ton of data so I was just checking everything I could. It helped a bit in this situation because I know that I wasn’t very efficient. I also read using a refractometer after mash was a great idea except for once I did it I had no idea what that told me. I was also thinking about everyone here and if my beer comes out poor I’ll have any and all info people seem to ask for.

I think I learned a lot on this day about being prepared and everything else that goes into all grain. It will make the next time easy because I know exactly what to expect. At this point after everything I went through, If it goes well and tastes like beer I’m going to be happy.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

fwiw, I saw a 10pt increase in efficiency (mid-80's) this weekend dialing down my mill from the factory set 0.035" to closer to 0.030ish. I didn't measure but used the dial markings. I am suspecting the dial markings aren't that accurate as the crush was noticeably finer and at 0.025" the rollers jammed. I used rice hulls to keep the mash from getting stuck (no bag, just the anvil malt pipe and pump).

I guess my efficiency numbers and my eyes told me not to trust the dial settings,

Ive heard rice hulls, it’s in Palmers book and in anvils instructions. If I don’t recirculate, do I need to use them? They’re just going to get stuck in the grain holder anyways, although I guess it could clog up in the spigot.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

You are brewing a NEIPA - a New England IPA. So we have British IPAs that are malty and hops are noble (subtle). Then the Americans on the West Coast cranked up the hops across the board on IPAs drowning out the malt but good lord, dong wonderful things to feature those cirtus/tropical hops.

Then the folks in New England dialed down the bittering hops to bring back balance with the malt, adding things like flaked oats and flaked wheat to add that smooth mouthful, and doubled down on the late addition and dry hops that the West coast IPAs had to create the latest craze in beer.

This will be a beer style you'll want to research and up your brew game over the years as it tests even the most expert brewers.

this weekend, after about a year of research, I finally too a stab at creating a recipe for me in BrewFather in hopes of making one for my next batch. Even have my yeast picked out. You and I share the same challenge in keeping oxygen out of the transfer stage - Im done buying equipment for now so it is what it is.

How do you add late hop additions? My thought was just pop off the air lock and dump them in as quickly as possible, sanitize and slap it back in. Are they really that hard? it was on sale for New Years and I LOVE IPA’s so I took a stab at it. It was supposed to be my 3-4th brew but I bought yeast for it that was sold out and the LHBS when I got there didn’t even have what I bought, dry. So they gave me the London Ale III liquid for no extra cost which was cool but it was only good through the beginning of April so I was pressed for time.

 

[Newtobrewing85]

I notice no one's mentioned conditioning your grain with a bit of water. I have worn knurling on my mill, and rollers spinning without grain pick-up drove me crazy mad initially - a really frustrating start and not the mind-set you need for a fun, stress-free and often related: screw-up free brew day.
Mix a good tablespoon of water/KG into the grain (2% by weight) 5-10 minutes before you mill: milling problem solved. Your mill (if its like mine) will suddenly pick and grind in a long satisfying rumble at 0.030" again. You also run less risk of fractured rather than softly split husks and then extracting that harsh tannin bitterness (thats just somehow different from hop bitterness) from the husks. Dont use too much water, or leave it so long that the inner grain gets soft - you still want the kernels nice and friable so each grain cracks into 5 or 6 bits with some gritty flour in the gris as change. Its so much quicker for me I mill the whole grain bill straight into the mash now. I also mix in any mash water additions in while I'm mixing the water through to help the mash ph resolve faster and evenly.

Interesting. So in my case 10 pounds so roughly 4-5 tablespoons a little before into the bag and just let it sit for 10-15 minutes? I’ve heard people letting their grain steep overnight but I didn’t understand that as it seems like it would release the sugars. But, I suppose it takes a certain temp for that so maybe not.