Hefe question

[Krazlikesbeer]

So after making a few ciders and wines I finally brewed my first beer. As I am a big fan of Paulaner's Hefeweizen I brewed a Bavarian Hefe extract kit. Now a month later I am giving it a try as they are supposed to condition fast.
The problem is that there is an extremely strong clove taste. I fermented this out for about 14 days in the primary at 72 F as many suggested to get the banana esters flavor from the yeast and it is there but more in fragrance.
Does anyone have experience with this?

 

[duboman]

What Yeast did you use, when I brew my German Hefe I use WY3068 and ferment at the low end for the clove and higher for the banana, what you experienced is unusual.

 

[Krazlikesbeer]

What Yeast did you use, when I brew my German Hefe I use WY3068 and ferment at the low end for the clove and higher for the banana, what you experienced is unusual.

So yes. I used the same yeast. I used the liquid starter pack. Broke the bag inside and let it sit for about 4 hours or so. The bag felt as if would explode when I opened it. I tossed it in when the cool wort and water was at 68 degree. I kept the heat in my basement at about 72 for two weeks. Then I racked to keg with some addition dextrose for a few days to keg condition and threw in my keezer on Co2. When I took the gravity before I kegged it was a .011. So that it right where it was supposed to be.

So my fear now is I am going to get the same result on the second batch as I poured that right into the same fermenter as I used for the first and nearly the same except this batch has been in the primary for nearly 3 weeks.

I plan to rack this batch to a secondary first as this dip tube is clogging as well on batch number one.

 

[Kayos]

It's all about the yeast. Try WLP300 next time for more banana and less clove.

 

[daksin]

Yea, I think people typically brew their hefes a bit warm. Mid to high 60s should do it with most yeasts. They do tend to ferment extra-vigorously, so temp control could be difficult. If the conditions in your fermentor got much over 72 you could get all manner of flavors in your beer.

 

[Krazlikesbeer]

It's all about the yeast. Try WLP300 next time for more banana and less clove.

Ha. The funny thing about that is that I bought WL300 for this and then I read a few reviews saying that they ended up with a sour beer. So I went back and bought the other.

I plan to try and use that for a third batch. I plan to make the perfect Hefe for my taste. If I have to keep drinking batches of mediocre beer in the mean time, that's fine. It is still beer.

 

[Krazlikesbeer]

Yea, I think people typically brew their hefes a bit warm. Mid to high 60s should do it with most yeasts. They do tend to ferment extra-vigorously, so temp control could be difficult. If the conditions in your fermentor got much over 72 you could get all manner of flavors in your beer.

So this could also be the problem. I didn't account for the increase in temp inside the fermenter itself. I kept the room temp at around 70-72 but the internal temp could have been as high as 77-78 from what I have been reading about this yeast. I think most people would agree that is too high even for a Hefe

 

[Pezman1]

I ferment all my hefes with Wyeast Weihenstephen at 68 degrees fermenter temp - not room temp.

Just the right amount of banana with a hint of clove.

Pez.

 

[Aschecte]

Not that I consider this an absolute truth or anything but according to BYO magazines 250 clone brews the yeast strain for Pauler hefeweizen should be either wyeast 3638 bavarian wheat( Weihenstephan 175 ) or White labs 380 Hefeweizen IV yeast (Weihenstephan 66 ) . That may be part of the issue as the yeast you used the wy3068 is Weihenstephan 68 (S. delbrueckii single strain) and is slightly different in terms of aroma and flavor than the paulaner. Also we need to acknowledge that most "large " breweries do not use a single strain of yeast they usually have a house blend of multiple strains that produce their unique flavor and aroma profile. I hope this helps a little and maybe it may explain the differences you are expierencing.

 

[william_shakes_beer]

When I have done in internal temp check I have found the fermenter wort (near the edge of the bucket) is about 2 degrees warmer than the external bucket sensor. You might want to keep that in mind when making the fine temp adjustments. If you use a water bath you will be able to temper the temp swings a little more.

 

[Aschecte]

In regards to temp control I need to share my .02 as my setup works GREAT but, is a bit pricey. I use a Johnson control A419 dual cool/heat digital controller that has an internal jumper to switch between heat or cool. In conjuction with this control I use a ETC supply part # FE612 15" stainless steel thermowell probe that goes into a double drilled #7 stopper. on one side of the stopper I drop the probe from the A419 into the thermowell and on the other side goes the airlock. The benefit of this setup is that the stainless steel thermowell/probe sits dead center in the wort itself and as the wort stratifies around the carboy it gives a dead on temp reading. The control then will cycle a heat wrap or refrgerator depending on the control setting to maintain that temperature exactly where you want it. The downside now is the price it roughly cost about $120 for both pieces excluding the heat wrap and keezer which are a couple hundred more when all is said and done.

 

[Krazlikesbeer]

I was reading about some off this strains earlier. I will have to see if I can get my hands on them and try them out if these other attempts don't produce what I am looking for. I think I will see how batch number two is as it was at a lower temp the the first batch. Thanks for the information on these yeast strains. I will copy these down.

 

[Krazlikesbeer]

In regards to temp control I need to share my .02 as my setup works GREAT but, is a bit pricey. I use a Johnson control A419 dual cool/heat digital controller that has an internal jumper to switch between heat or cool. In conjuction with this control I use a ETC supply part # FE612 15" stainless steel thermowell probe that goes into a double drilled #7 stopper. on one side of the stopper I drop the probe from the A419 into the thermowell and on the other side goes the airlock. The benefit of this setup is that the stainless steel thermowell/probe sits dead center in the wort itself and as the wort stratifies around the carboy it gives a dead on temp reading. The control then will cycle a heat wrap or refrgerator depending on the control setting to maintain that temperature exactly where you want it. The downside now is the price it roughly cost about $120 for both pieces excluding the heat wrap and keezer which are a couple hundred more when all is said and done.

My wife would leave me if I buy any more toys in the near future. My keeZer build was nearly 1500 when it was all said and done. And I also just purchases a big green egg to cook some mean meals to complement my brews.

 

[Aschecte]

Sweet keezer build !!!! How big is your collar ? Is it a top or bottom mount ? That big green egg I believe is a weber ceramic BBQ right ? I have he same one it rocks

 

[Krazlikesbeer]

Sweet keezer build !!!! How big is your collar ? Is it a top or bottom mount ? That big green egg I believe is a weber ceramic BBQ right ? I have he same one it rocks

The collar is a 2 x 10. I mounted the door to the top. I also put it on a base so that I could elevate it above the shelf you see which sits behind my bar. I am 6 7" so I can get away with the heigh with little issue.

 

[Krazlikesbeer]

Sweet keezer build !!!! How big is your collar ? Is it a top or bottom mount ? That big green egg I believe is a weber ceramic BBQ right ? I have he same one it rocks

The green egg is ceramic but it is not made by webber. I bought the xl so I can cook some serious BBQ on it.

 

[daksin]

So this could also be the problem. I didn't account for the increase in temp inside the fermenter itself. I kept the room temp at around 70-72 but the internal temp could have been as high as 77-78 from what I have been reading about this yeast. I think most people would agree that is too high even for a Hefe

Yea, that's definitely your problem. You were probably at least 80 in your beer. Getting a stick-on thermometer will help, it's a pretty good indicator. If your climate is dry (low humidity), you can get away with wrapping your fermenter in a wet towel and pointing a fan at it. I can ferment my ales at 60F this way.

 

[Krazlikesbeer]

Yea, that's definitely your problem. You were probably at least 80 in your beer. Getting a stick-on thermometer will help, it's a pretty good indicator. If your climate is dry (low humidity), you can get away with wrapping your fermenter in a wet towel and pointing a fan at it. I can ferment my ales at 60F this way.

I move the second batch to a secondary. I did take a taste but smelled sweeter. I guess we will see. This batch was done at about 64 room temp.

 

[smyrnaquince]

Just catching up on this thread. I've been looking into Weizen flavor issues recently. Sometimes the info conflicts.

I've read that Wyeast 3068 and WLP300 are the same strain. If so, swapping between them shouldn't matter.

Clove flavor is supposed to result from lower fermentation temperatures, banana from high.

"Brewing with Wheat" by Stan Hieronymous lists temperature ranges for various yeasts:

Wyeast 3068:
75-85F (Lt. Clove, Bubble Gum, Fruity)
65-75F (Banana, Clove, Bubble Gum, Fruity, Sulfur)

WLP300
75-85F (More Banana Scent)
65-75F (*Preferred for Clove Phenolics)
58-66F (Slight Banana Clove Scent)

I think I've also read that underpitching can emphasize banana and ovepitching can emphasize clove.

Based on all of that, I am wondering how much yeast you pitched and what you wort volume was.

 

[Krazlikesbeer]

Just catching up on this thread. I've been looking into Weizen flavor issues recently. Sometimes the info conflicts.

I've read that Wyeast 3068 and WLP300 are the same strain. If so, swapping between them shouldn't matter.

Clove flavor is supposed to result from lower fermentation temperatures, banana from high.

"Brewing with Wheat" by Stan Hieronymous lists temperature ranges for various yeasts:

Wyeast 3068:
75-85F (Lt. Clove, Bubble Gum, Fruity)
65-75F (Banana, Clove, Bubble Gum, Fruity, Sulfur)

WLP300
75-85F (More Banana Scent)
65-75F (*Preferred for Clove Phenolics)
58-66F (Slight Banana Clove Scent)

I think I've also read that underpitching can emphasize banana and ovepitching can emphasize clove.

Based on all of that, I am wondering how much yeast you pitched and what you wort volume was.

Sorry I keep trying to reply and I have been getting errors and I have to cancel it

Pitched all the yeast in the liquid pack. It went for 4-6 hours at least before I pitched it. I did a 3 gallon boil and pitched at 68.5 degrees. Fermented at a room temp of 72 degrees.

 

[smyrnaquince]

If you did a 3 gallon boil and did not add any additional water into the fermenter, then my guess is that you overpitched, which would lead to a clove emphasis.

 

[ness22]

My Bavarian Hefe is in its last day of fermentation, I have kept it consistently at 60 degrees for the two weeks, just wondering if this temp is a tad low or just right? I tasted it and it seemed fairly plain but not bad flavored. Might just be the fact that it's not carbonated yet either.

 

[944play]

60 is too low for my taste. 68ºF/20ºC with 3068 is just right.
I also prefer a decoction mash for my hefeweizen.

 

[Kealia]

I like using WLP300 around 68-70 for a solid banana nose and taste. I don't particularly like or pick up on the clove notes at this range. I pitch a vial into a 2.5G batch with no issues. I'll likely under-pitch the next one to see if I can get even more banana ester from it.

 

[Krazlikesbeer]

If you did a 3 gallon boil and did not add any additional water into the fermenter, then my guess is that you overpitched, which would lead to a clove emphasis.

Sorry the boil was three. Then I added two gallons to get it up to 5 gallons exactly.

 

[Krazlikesbeer]

I like using WLP300 around 68-70 for a solid banana nose and taste. I don't particularly like or pick up on the clove notes at this range. I pitch a vial into a 2.5G batch with no issues. I'll likely under-pitch the next one to see if I can get even more banana ester from it.

I plan to move a Hefe in the secondary to a keg next weekend. I will try another with new yeast. I have the dry yeast in my fridge. I will give that a try this time around and what my internal ferment temp this time around (instead of just room temp).🍺🍺🍺🍺👀

 

[smyrnaquince]

I didn't know there were dry Hefe yeasts. What is it?

 

[milldoggy]

I didn't know there were dry Hefe yeasts. What is it?

Wb-06 is one

 

[Yooper]

I like using WLP300 around 68-70 for a solid banana nose and taste. I don't particularly like or pick up on the clove notes at this range. I pitch a vial into a 2.5G batch with no issues. I'll likely under-pitch the next one to see if I can get even more banana ester from it.

I wouldn't try that- stressed yeast may give you far more 'clove' than esters. Underpitching seems to not work that well. I'd rather pitch the appropriate amount of yeast (in the OP's case, it was underpitching, not overpitching that caused the issues) and control fermentation temperatures appropriately.

Generally, one smack pack is underpitching in a 5 gallon batch of beer over 1.040.

 

[Krazlikesbeer]

I wouldn't try that- stressed yeast may give you far more 'clove' than esters. Underpitching seems to not work that well. I'd rather pitch the appropriate amount of yeast (in the OP's case, it was underpitching, not overpitching that caused the issues) and control fermentation temperatures appropriately.

Generally, one smack pack is underpitching in a 5 gallon batch of beer over 1.040.

Really. So you think I may have under pitched. I started fermenting almost immediately. I guess I will see with the second batch that I am kegging. I pour that right over the top on the yeast cake from batch one which I will admit was a more aggressive ferment. I also had a lower room temp on this batch. I never even tried it. I took the gravity and move to a secondary.