Heatstick = awesome!

CornyKegs 728
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Here I am after months of studying trying to become comfortable with all these concepts... and now you guys are sure making me feel safe about my project! . . . sarcasm

But I'm going ahead anywhoo see you all in the big electric brewery in the sky!
 
I've found this thread to be very helpful and informative... I've been looking for a way to reduce time from my brew days, I do full-boils on my stove top and it typically takes about 45 minutes to get to a boil after I collect the 2nd runnings from my mash. So I'm thinking about building a 1500W heat stick to hopefully help speed things up.

My main question is this, the only outlet in my kitchen that is near my stovetop is on a 15A on amp circuit, will it be safe for me to run a 1500W heat stick off of this outlet? I'm going to have to install a GFCI outlet before I do anything though.
 
You'll be pulling 0.83% of the 15 amp breakers rating or 12.5 amps, your ok that should work unless it's and old breaker that has been hammered (tripped) many times and has become weaker. By this it drops out below 15 amps and more near your 12.5 amp load. Give it a test run just don't add other power items to that circuit if it feeds more than one plug in that location.
 
The Pol said:
Like I said, you make things up to rant. You made my question, into a statement, you also cleverly omitted where in those quoted posts, those same people also said that they use a kill switch to cut power to both energized legs. What are you trying to do?

If anyone would like to read this thread, it is a good read as a lot of great questions were asked and answered. Here is the link to the thread and page that BrewBeemer so eloquently quoted. As stated above, there is a lot more useful information there, which he neglected to post.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/3500w-4500w-5500w-90989/index6.html
Click to expand...

That DPST kill switch is great vs unplugging the feed to your brewing system to work on it or go inside the control panel doing any wiring changes.
To rely on reaching over to this DPST "kill switch" while your hung up being electrocuted is a joke! There is no way in hell while your nervous and muscle system are over powered by an electrical shock and still be able to do a normal thinking and body function like flipping that DPST switch. Like being hit with a Stun Gun and at the same time have full thinking and muscle control of what your doing? Not going to happen. Have you been around a person hung up on 120, 240, 277 or 480 volts? I have and they are useless and in need of quick life saving action to remove the energy source thru them before they end up dead. By this and not getting hung up yourself in the rescue. I have been there and helped save a few wiremen over the last 29 years in the electrical trade, CPR, bad electrical burn victims. To fully trust a GFI is also foolish as some trip looking at them while others will not trip at all under a fault. You switch idea, in kind words is not the best way to go. Better yet is to have two locations directly in front of your brewery with a big red panic button pointing straight up that controls the coil in a relay to the 240 volt feeds holding contacts. Like a start stop station but only the stop added. Rant and rave all you want Pol your sharp quick replies keep me laughing on how little you know about the electrical trade and field. My fault for not being silent with your postings in the past.
 
Let me preface my comments by saying that I am not an expert in electricity. That is why I had my plans evaluated by an electrical engineer who is also a licensed electrician. He also looked over my control box before I plugged it in. He specifically told me that I did not need to control both limbs of a 240 vac circuit. He did instruct me to install a dpst switch on the circuit. I would have gladly stayed out of this pissing contest but I was quoted out of context:

"stevehaun; reply #56 like bakins,"I run one hot directly to the element and the other hot is switched by the SSR..."

Now to brewbeemer's example: "To rely on reaching over to this DPST "kill switch" while your hung up being electrocuted is a joke! There is no way in hell while your nervous and muscle system are over powered by an electrical shock and still be able to do a normal thinking and body function like flipping that DPST switch."

I agree with your comment. However, you overall logic on this topic is flawed. If you are being electrocuted by the 240 vac circuit controlled by your DSSR, you would still have to reach over and turn off your PID to stop the electrical shock. This is no different than flipping the DPST switch. I really don't see how using a DSSR is inherently safer than using a single SSR. The only time I have my DPST switch on is when I am heating water or wort. Otherwise the circuit is turned off - no current to either limb of the 240 vac circuit. The PID and SSR is only used to control the circuit when it is turned on. I do not use the PID/SSR to turn the heating elements on and off.

Here is literature from Watlow that shows how to wire a SSR for a 240 vac circuit controlling a heater. They show controlling only one limb of the 240 vac circuit.

http://www.watlow.com/literature/prodtechinfo/files/controllers/ssre_c.pdf

There is nothing wrong with using a DSSR but it is not the only way to control a 240 vac circuit safely.
 
stevehaun said:
Let me preface my comments by saying that I am not an expert in electricity. That is why I had my plans evaluated by an electrical engineer who is also a licensed electrician. He also looked over my control box before I plugged it in. He specifically told me that I did not need to control both limbs of a 240 vac circuit. He did instruct me to install a dpst switch on the circuit. I would have gladly stayed out of this pissing contest but I was quoted out of context:

"stevehaun; reply #56 like bakins,"I run one hot directly to the element and the other hot is switched by the SSR..."

Now to brewbeemer's example: "To rely on reaching over to this DPST "kill switch" while your hung up being electrocuted is a joke! There is no way in hell while your nervous and muscle system are over powered by an electrical shock and still be able to do a normal thinking and body function like flipping that DPST switch."

I agree with your comment. However, you overall logic on this topic is flawed. If you are being electrocuted by the 240 vac circuit controlled by your DSSR, you would still have to reach over and turn off your PID to stop the electrical shock. This is no different than flipping the DPST switch. I really don't see how using a DSSR is inherently safer than using a single SSR. The only time I have my DPST switch on is when I am heating water or wort. Otherwise the circuit is turned off - no current to either limb of the 240 vac circuit. The PID and SSR is only used to control the circuit when it is turned on. I do not use the PID/SSR to turn the heating elements on and off.

Here is literature from Watlow that shows how to wire a SSR for a 240 vac circuit controlling a heater. They show controlling only one limb of the 240 vac circuit.

http://www.watlow.com/literature/prodtechinfo/files/controllers/ssre_c.pdf

There is nothing wrong with using a DSSR but it is not the only way to control a 240 vac circuit safely.
Click to expand...


Well said Steve
 
stevehaun said:
Now to brewbeemer's example: "To rely on reaching over to this DPST "kill switch" while your hung up being electrocuted is a joke! There is no way in hell while your nervous and muscle system are over powered by an electrical shock and still be able to do a normal thinking and body function like flipping that DPST switch."
Click to expand...

FWIW, from reading some of BrewBeemer's post in another thread, I think he is a proponent of using a "mushroom" emergency stop switch:

m_e22jlb2n8b.jpg


Which is fine. If/when I redo my rig, I plan on adding one.

I'm guessing that's what he was talking about versus a DPST. Not sure, though.

(Not defending or offending, just trying to make sure I don't electricute myself or anyone else...)
 
Yup I am, thanks for posting a picture bakins. This reply is not me just ranting to hear myself as Pol stated I do with my replies, this is a serious safety item.
If you've been hung up on a hot circuit to a point of browning out you will think differently. I was going into a brown out once by an idiot that that bent my locked breaker out of the way and energized a 480 3 phase 30 HP motor blower motor I was replacing. It took more than 3 people to hold me back from almost killing that person. I was sent to the hospital overnight after this with burns to the hand and the shakes. Pol must be a state licensed Master electrician also?
 
Not to fan the flames, but you wouldn't be able to hit any sort of switch if being shocked by 480 volt to the point of brown out.... :D (just poking here :) )

Judging by how I've never seen a 240v residential appliance have an emergency one-shot cutout switch.... ZOMG! How have I lived this long?....
hehehehe :D
 
I was going into a brown out condition all I could think was getting away by this falling off the 8' ladder. this broke me from the circuit landing in a daze on the roof of a Weyerhaeuser Box company building. It took me I would guess 5 minutes just to get up and gather my thinking then going for blood about to kill the person that defeated my locked out breaker. This became an OSHA investigation, fine and firing with a nights stay in the hospital for me wired up under medical observation. Released in the morning with 3 days off. A week later another EKG reading. All's well i'm still alive.
Working cranes for the port of Oakland, they have DC that will contract your muscles, a bad way to die.
Look at older electric dryers with two hots and a ground a 3 prong vs 4 prong these days or older houses of the 1911-1920 era where they switch the neutral for lighting as well have the left side of a non grounded plug as the hot. There are many ways to get hurt working in the electrical trade even when applying safety from others not alone the Home Depot DIY home electrical butcher jobs out there. I bet half the houses in my area of the 1913 to 30's have fire and safety hazards at any given moment, one house had a electrical fire in the wall that bunt half the house down.
 
Heatsticks are awesome!!! Even though I use gas on my brew rig, I have been wanting a way to have hot water for cleaning. I was considering getting a small water heater to install up in the BrewShed but didn’t want to spend $150, I tried a small point of use heater that a buddy of mine gave me but it couldn’t keep up with the flow rate that I needed, then I see the post about “Heatstick” and now my hot water problem was solved.
I used a 1000 watt element because I didn’t want that much draw on my circuit ( I only have 60 amp service to my shed and already have lights, computer, stereo, fridge and chest freezer up there) and had a circuit in place for the small heater that failed. After putting it all together I did a test run and got 6.5 gallons of water up to 145 in about an hour. Now on brew days I can take my spare kettle fill it with water and by the time I’m done I will have plenty of HOT water to clean the mess with.
 
Is everyone constructing these Heat Sticks out of high watt density 1500 or 2000 watt elements?

This seems to be the only type of 120V elements that I can find in my local stores. Should I go with one of these or order a LWD from these guys:

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/elements.html

I intend to use this to supplement my electric stove when doing 6-7 gallon boils.

-steve
 
You can use either HDW, LWD or ULWD elements. The bonus to using the HWD elements is that they are shorter in length.
 
Drumhaggart said:
Is everyone constructing these Heat Sticks out of high watt density 1500 or 2000 watt elements?

This seems to be the only type of 120V elements that I can find in my local stores. Should I go with one of these or order a LWD from these guys:

http://www.plumbingsupply.com/elements.html

I intend to use this to supplement my electric stove when doing 6-7 gallon boils.

-steve
Click to expand...

I have a pair of the low watt density 1500s. The link you posted was the first that I saw the extra low watt density ones.
 
This one is for all of you electrical engineers, or at least for those of you wiser than me (nearly everyone!). I'm interested in building a heat stick, and we happen to have some spare water heater elements lying around. However, they're 240v, 4800w elements. Yeah, I know, that would boil 5 gallons pretty darn quick. However, I don't have a 240v outlet anywhere near my stove, and I'm also a coward when it comes to that much juice being held by me and dunked into liquid. I also have never seen a 240v GFCI, although I'm sure they exist.

So here's the question- Can I just wire it 110v? If so, how many watts can I expect to get from it? These things make sense to me in terms of motors and RPM, but I don't know how resistance heating may change the math.

Thanks!!!
 
Sure you can, though you will get less than 1200W from it, which wont boil 5 gal... though it can suppliment a stove.
 
240V (2-pole) GFCI breakers do exist. Home depot and Lowes carries some. Might not be the right amperage for you, or the right make/model for your box. I bought one off ebay for $50 for my box.

Yes, wiring a 240V 4800W element to 120 will work. You will get 1200W. If you use half the voltage with a purely resistive element, wattage is 1/4.
 
Thanks guys! I knew it wouldn't be as simple as I thought. It seems a waste to use an element that big and only get 1200 watts out of it. I may just wait or dig around in a few more Hanta infested boxes to see if I can find a 110v element. Still too scared to do it 240v!
 
Elements are pretty cheap, might as well get the right one for your application...I got my 120v 2000w element at menards for $9
 
I also plan on building a couple 2000 watt 125 v heat sticks to supplement my propane heating. My question has to do with the wire that is used for the stick. Because it's 2000 watt, I assume I will need 12 gauge wire. So I started to look at the SJEOOW black rubber stuff that is sold at Menards and SJOOW sold at Home Depot and according to Coleman Cable, they are rated at 15 amp. I also looked at the outdoor 12/3 wire extension cord, the cable is marked SJTW. The extension cord states 15 amp 1850 watt. Both types of cables I looked at were manufactured by Coleman Cable. Is there another type of electrical cord I should be looking at? Do need to go 10 gauge?

thanks

tom
 
I bought a 2000W element over the weekend. However, I'm hesitating as to what wattage (almost sounds like stuttering there!) to do. I wonder if I'm better off with two 1500 watt sticks? I'm concerned about access to outlets on different circuits and generating enough heat to make these worthwhile (eg, for indoor all-grain brewing). I have one 20-amp outlet in my kitchen (inside a cabinet, actually).
What would you do?
 
The Pol said:
Okay, I am wrong, you can easily build a 2000W BK... never mind. Carry on.

And I do mean this.
Click to expand...

Sort of what I do. I built two 2000W heatsticks, I use 2 to heat my strike water as quickly as possible. then I heat the two sparges with just one of them because I am in no hurry. The BK is brought to a boil with both heatsticks so it can be done in a timely manner. Once at a rolling boil I remove one and it holds its there perfectly, no boilovers for 7.5 gallons of wert in my 8 gallon pot yet.
 
Pickngrin said:
I bought a 2000W element over the weekend. However, I'm hesitating as to what wattage (almost sounds like stuttering there!) to do. I wonder if I'm better off with two 1500 watt sticks? I'm concerned about access to outlets on different circuits and generating enough heat to make these worthwhile (eg, for indoor all-grain brewing). I have one 20-amp outlet in my kitchen (inside a cabinet, actually).
What would you do?
Click to expand...

I'd put together the 2k element and hope for the best. If you insulate your pot with some hot water heater insulation from HD you will get decent boil times. Turn off that breaker and figure out everything else that is on it and make sure not to use that stuff while heating!

BTW, your screen name reminds me of the old Hee Haw show, where the guitar and banjo guys would say "I'm a pickin', and he's a grinnin'".
 
Just used my 2000w 120v heatstick last night.. had to get a 20amp outlet..

heated 8 gallons in a cool garage from 85f to 180f in about an hour.

pretty happy with it.. easy to make.. and it will surely lower my propane usage..
 
i'm totally in on this... made a 1500W one and a 2000W one, with the combo, it brought 8 gallons of water from 50-160 in about 40 mins. that is roughly the same rate as it takes me to heat with propane, so needless to say, i'm stoked! i'm brewing with them tomorrow. i think i'll still use propane to maintain the boil, but if i'm feelin' lucky, i'll use the heatsticks. thanks for this post.
 
So what is the consensus on the materials used in the cedarcreek DIY guide? Are the safe from leeching in water as well as wort? I'm thinking of making a 1500w one to help heat water/wort when brewing with NG outside.
 
zanemoseley said:
So what is the consensus on the materials used in the cedarcreek DIY guide? Are the safe from leeching in water as well as wort? I'm thinking of making a 1500w one to help heat water/wort when brewing with NG outside.
Click to expand...

I just built a 1500w heatstick using the cedarcreek guide and it has worked great -- I love it. I use mine to supplement the propane (i.e. heating the strike water right in my mashtun, and then heating in my hlt while the mash is going -- timed out perfectly, and then of course boosting my kettle boil).

hlt.JPG


No leaks so far (I really went to task with the JB weld), but the first time I used it the cord fell against my burner stand and melted -- there was much cursing. :drunk:

-- T
 
zanemoseley said:
So what is the consensus on the materials used in the cedarcreek DIY guide? Are the safe from leeching in water as well as wort? I'm thinking of making a 1500w one to help heat water/wort when brewing with NG outside.
Click to expand...

I'm interested in the consensus about material safety as well.

Are the nuts that come with the drain pipes really zinc?

Is chrome plated brass really safe for water/wort?
 
stevehaun said:
Let me preface my comments by saying that I am not an expert in electricity. That is why I had my plans evaluated by an electrical engineer who is also a licensed electrician. He also looked over my control box before I plugged it in. He specifically told me that I did not need to control both limbs of a 240 vac circuit. He did instruct me to install a dpst switch on the circuit. I would have gladly stayed out of this pissing contest but I was quoted out of context:

"stevehaun; reply #56 like bakins,"I run one hot directly to the element and the other hot is switched by the SSR..."

Now to brewbeemer's example: "To rely on reaching over to this DPST "kill switch" while your hung up being electrocuted is a joke! There is no way in hell while your nervous and muscle system are over powered by an electrical shock and still be able to do a normal thinking and body function like flipping that DPST switch."

I agree with your comment. However, you overall logic on this topic is flawed. If you are being electrocuted by the 240 vac circuit controlled by your DSSR, you would still have to reach over and turn off your PID to stop the electrical shock. This is no different than flipping the DPST switch. I really don't see how using a DSSR is inherently safer than using a single SSR. The only time I have my DPST switch on is when I am heating water or wort. Otherwise the circuit is turned off - no current to either limb of the 240 vac circuit. The PID and SSR is only used to control the circuit when it is turned on. I do not use the PID/SSR to turn the heating elements on and off.

Here is literature from Watlow that shows how to wire a SSR for a 240 vac circuit controlling a heater. They show controlling only one limb of the 240 vac circuit.

http://www.watlow.com/literature/prodtechinfo/files/controllers/ssre_c.pdf

There is nothing wrong with using a DSSR but it is not the only way to control a 240 vac circuit safely.
Click to expand...

Steve; I and my state have our state license as IBEW union wiremen electricians the past 5 years, i'm licensed plus not your normal homebrewer just passing on safety issues about bad wiring electric heating systems i've seem on this forum many times. Nuff from me it's your azz wire it to how you wish as you can only die once. Get a system approved by UL standards then i'll be impressed. Back to my cave to read and enjoy the postings.
 
I'm just curious. Of all the hazards of brewing, is anyone willing to admit to being zapped? Or do you know someone who has? Being zapped should require more than one concurrent mistake. If anyone has done it I'm curious how it happened and what went wrong.

Dan
 
hlt.JPG


tlarham, JMO, but that extension cord might be a bit thin?? Keep an eye on it that it doesn't get to warm. Also, I believe running a thin cord will result in voltage drop, which will give you less heat.
 
Quick question, I do stove top brewing in my apartment, and I can get a slow rolling kind of boil in my insulated 7.5 aluminium pot. But reaching that boil can take over an hour, and heating up the mash water also adds another half hour or so.
Would a 1500 watt heat stick be worth making?
How much time would it cut off of heating?
I know it would add enough heat to get a strong boil, which would be nice.
 

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