Heatstick = awesome!

[MarshyTheKid]

Wow. So this little stick will bring your brew to a boil? I was planning on getting a propane burner and a keggle. Would one of these bring 15 gallons to a boil or would I need two?
I didn't see anyone list a price. How much did you guys spend on this?

 

[The Pol]

Wow. So this little stick will bring your brew to a boil? I was planning on getting a propane burner and a keggle. Would one of these bring 15 gallons to a boil or would I need two?
I didn't see anyone list a price. How much did you guys spend on this?

You will need two. 2000W isnt going to boil a 5 gallon batch for you.

You would need (2) and have them on (2) separate 20A CIRCUITS in your home.

 

[The Pol]

That plug is only rated for 15amps. A 120v 20 amp plug has a horizontal neutral prong.

I am going to make one for my HLT, but ill go with a 240v setup since i all ready have it for my table saw and air compressor. which looks like this.

I said 20A CIRCUIT... as running a 2000W element WILL require it. As it will pull over 16A.

Just saying.

There are also numerous plugs and receptacles that one can use for 240VAC applications. They vary from three prong to four prong.

 

[passedpawn]

Wow. My calcs were way off. I was going with P = V X I. Where did the 1373 come from?

The resistance of the element is constant, not the current. Can't use your equation because current (I) changes when the voltage changes. You need a power equation with R in it. So use

Power = (V^2) / R

If you halve V, then pull out the 1/2 factor after squaring it, it becomes 1/4

(V/2)^2 / R ==> 1/4 [ (V^2)/R ]

So, if you half the voltage on a resistive element, you get 1/4th the power.

FWIW, the DC resistance of the 5500W element must be around 10.5 ohms ( 240V^2 / 5500W ).

 

[Munsoned]

Thanks for the insight (three pages back) on the cost to run. I must say I am very intrigued... I think I'll need to check out my electric junction box tonight to see what I have--I've never really thought about electric brewing, and I've never really given much thought about my electric wiring in my house so I'm not sure what I've got. I'm 99% sure that my house is wired for 15A only except for one 20A that runs to a spot in my finished basement that would not be suitable for brewing. Maybe I have another that runs to the unfinished part of my basement where the washer/dryer/HVAC are, but I'm not sure if the electrical in there is on that circuit or not, and I'm pretty sure the HVAC circuit is dedicated to the HVAC unit...

So, assuming I'm limited to 15A, I think that means that I would probably be limited to a 1500W heat stick max. at this point (and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong in that assumption). Anyone build a 1.5kw heatstick and run it off of a 15A circuit? Would it actually bring 5-7 gallons to a boil? I'm thinking it would probably end up tripping the circuit...

 

[bendavanza]

I'd love a heatstick. I don't want any JBweld in my kettle, though, despite the consensus that it's ok. I've read about how the JB seems to disappear over time.

 

[HSM]

One question. Hopefully HSM can tell me what that grey looking stuff is that's on the nut holding the element. I'm curious as to what kind of sealant that is, and if it's rated for high temps, and is it safe for foodstuff.

It's JB liquid weld. It's safe up to 500F, and is advertised as "non toxic".

I'm sure it's not food grade, but it works.

 

[BackBayBrewing]

Backbay, are you running that off 120V? What kind of circuit are you running it off?

The Pol was exactly right. It is a 2000 watt element run on 120V AC 20A circuit. I use it in conjunction with my gas range and have no problem bringing 7 gal to a boil.

Worthy of note, the GFI outlet in my kitchen is on a dedicated 20A circuit so I have no problems with tripping the breaker. If you used my heatstick on a nondedicated circuit you might overload it easily.

 

[BackBayBrewing]

That plug is only rated for 15amps. A 120v 20 amp plug has a horizontal neutral prong.

I am going to make one for my HLT, but ill go with a 240v setup since i all ready have it for my table saw and air compressor. which looks like this.

As I said in one of my posts above, I am no electical wizard. I did not realize that my plug was not rated high enough for this application. Am I at risk of setting myself on fire here? Or am I ok with this plug? It wouldn't be very hard for me to put a different plug on the end if that is what is needed. Likewse I could put in a different outlet in the kitchen if hat is needed. The physical work of installing these these things I am good at. It's the knowledge of what is required where I am lacking. Thanks.

 

[The Pol]

Thanks for the insight (three pages back) on the cost to run. I must say I am very intrigued... I think I'll need to check out my electric junction box tonight to see what I have--I've never really thought about electric brewing, and I've never really given much thought about my electric wiring in my house so I'm not sure what I've got. I'm 99% sure that my house is wired for 15A only except for one 20A that runs to a spot in my finished basement that would not be suitable for brewing. Maybe I have another that runs to the unfinished part of my basement where the washer/dryer/HVAC are, but I'm not sure if the electrical in there is on that circuit or not, and I'm pretty sure the HVAC circuit is dedicated to the HVAC unit...

So, assuming I'm limited to 15A, I think that means that I would probably be limited to a 1500W heat stick max. at this point (and PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong in that assumption). Anyone build a 1.5kw heatstick and run it off of a 15A circuit? Would it actually bring 5-7 gallons to a boil? I'm thinking it would probably end up tripping the circuit...

Simply put, 1500W wil not boil anything for you... much too little power. You need to start at about 3000W and up. It takes 3700W to keep my 5 gallon brews at a nice boil off rate of 1.3 gal/hr

Anything under about 3500W in a 5 gallon batch, will not boil.

1500W / 120VAC means it will use 12.5A. So, as you can see, you could use it, but you will need at LEAST two of them and maybe 3 would be nice.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Anything under about 3500W in a 5 gallon batch, will not boil.

I respectfully disagree Pol. The data you have collected is based on boiling in a keggle, which due the mass, and large surface area, is not as energy frugal as boiling in a 7 - 10 gallon pot. I feel one 2000w heatstick is right on the edge for five gallon batches. With an insulated pot, my 2000 watts will boil 6 gallons. It will take a while, and may need the cover on to reach a boil faster, but it will boil.

 

[kevinkaseykizer]

i just built one today. all i could locally was 1500w element. but i am just using the stick to assist in getting my wort to boil.

total cost for all parts cost me $46 kinda high but cheaper than buying a prebuilt one from Nothern brewer

 

[passedpawn]

Pardon the approximations, but I am doing this from memory:

1 BTU raises 1 lb water 1F.

5 gal = 42 lbs.
212-75 = eh, maybe 125.

So, to get to boiling from ambient, approx. 42*125 = 6000 BTU.

1 BTU = 0.3 Wh (watt*hour). So, To get from ambient to boiling, that's about 1800 Watts for an hour (6000*.3) .

This assumes absolutely no heat loss, so make sure your pot is well insulated!

 

[The Pol]

Okay, I am wrong, you can easily build a 2000W BK... never mind. Carry on.

And I do mean this.

 

[lazybean]

I said 20A CIRCUIT... as running a 2000W element WILL require it. As it will pull over 16A.

Not trying to pick a fight with you Pol, I have a Massive amount of respect for you (I was drooling while looking through your gallery) But if you have a load over 15 amps you have to use a 20 amp plug and receptacle. The regular house hold plug (NEMA 5-15) can only be used on a load of 15amp or less. Thats why I linked the NEMA 5-20 plug.

There are also numerous plugs and receptacles that one can use for 240VAC applications. They vary from three prong to four prong.

Every NEMA rating designates its configuration. So for a simple 240v 15amp single phase circuit, you use a NEMA 6-15.That way you can always plug in any 240v 15a load. Like in my garage, i have a table saw, air comp, and now my heat stick, all with NEMA 6-15 plug, so i can plug them into any NEMA6-15 receptacle and ill know i have the right Volt/Amp.

 

[The Pol]

Um, I know what you were saying, I was just saying that I was talking about something totally different. I was talking about the circuit required to power it, not the plug and receptacle.

It was obviously a 2000W element, meaning it needed a 20A circuit to power it.

On my rig my 120VAC stuff is under 15A, my 240VAC approaches 25A, so I have standard receptacles for my 120VAC.

I know what you were saying, I was just pointing out that we were talking about totally different things.

 

[lazybean]

While at the Home Despot i found a NSF (food Safe) 2part epoxy putty and also got a 1.5"to1.25" nut that holds the element perfectly. the linked images are HUGE, sorry.

 

[ThreeDogsNE]

The January/February 2008 edition of Zymurgy has an article on heatsticks in which the author uses Dap RTV silicone sealant to seal his. It is specified to be food grade, and rated for 400 degrees. At the local Menards I found White Lightning 100% silicone sealant with the same specifications. It says "when fully cured and washed, meets performance requirements of FDA Regulation No. 21 CFR 177.2600. This reg appears to me to specify that the stuff is safe for repeated use in contact with food (I am not a lawyer). If the parts are mechanically secured, then either of these look like a good choice for a sealant.

I used the White Lightning stuff to seal my MLT drain site. A caulk gun tube was less than $4.

I have no commercial ties to any of this stuff.

 

[Red Clay]

To calculate wattage:

Watts = 1000 x (Gallons x Temp Rise F) / (372 x Heat-up Time hrs)

So, for 10 gallons going from 72 to 212 in 30 minutes you'd need:

1000 x (10 x 140) / (372 x .5) = 7500 watts

I'd throw in a 25% factor for losses due to evaporation and radiation. But I bet someone here who uses a heat stick could give a better "loss factor" than my guess.

In the example above you'd need 7500 x 1.25 = 9700, which is close enough to 10,000 to just use two 5000 watt sticks!

Yowza.

 

[The Pol]

But who goes from 72F to 212? Most ppl are going from 150-212F.

I can tell you now that I can reach a boil with my 5500W element in 10 gallons in 17 minutes (150F - 212F) (I set the PID at 180F during the sparge, so it takes me 6 minutes to reach a boil in 7 gallons)

5500W will take about 40 minutes to reach a boil from 70F to 212F in 10 gallons.

5500W will do almost anything a typical brewer wants to do, in short time. I mean if you set the PID at 180F during the sparge, you will reach a boil in 10 gallons in only 9 minutes.

 

[Red Clay]

I wasn't poo-pooing heatsticks. I'm actually planning on building an electric brewery. I was just trying to provide an easy equation for everyone.

From your example it sounds like the losses are relatively low compared to the input, so that's good.

Since W = Efficiency * (G * dT/.372*H), then

E = W/(G*dT/.372*H)

In your example

E = 5500 * 0.372 * 0.666 / (10 * 142) = ~96%

So the fudge factor is more like 1.05 than 1.25!

 

[The Pol]

There is actually a really easy spreadsheet that any electric brewer should have. It calculates heating times, wattage, amperage etc... It will also calculate your total electic cost if you input your cost/kWh

That is where I pull my #s from.

The great thing about electricity is that you are using about 18,700 BTUs (5500W) to reach a boil, instead of 50k - 100k BTUs with a gas burner. You only utilize about 36% of the BTUs from a gas burner, you utilize nearly 100% from the electric element since it is immersed in your water/wort.

Thu maintaining a boil for me requires a little over 12,000 BTUs... wow, 12,000! That would be closer to 36,000 BTUs from a propane burner. This is why electric can heat so damn quickly with so little BTU output. Gas burners are just very inefficient. Which is part of the reason why I can run my rig for less than $1.20 per brew session. The real energy useage is very low, and provides just as many BTUs to the kettle (etc) as my old propane burner.

 

[The Pol]

I have a really cool spreadsheet that I got from This Site, but I can't seem to find it there anymore. It calculates the time required to heat the water as well as the cost, once you enter the required information. Maybe he is in the middle of transferring it over to his new site.

A quick Yahoo search did find it Here. I just thought that I would credit the guy that I believe wrote the spreadsheet. I believe he is active on the Northern Brewer forums, and that may be where I initially got the spreadsheet.

If you don't have Excel, download OpenOffice, It can open excel files.

The spreadsheet is listed here in this post.

 

[bluegrassbrewer]

While at the Home Despot i found a NSF (food Safe) 2part epoxy putty and also got a 1.5"to1.25" nut that holds the element perfectly. the linked images are HUGE, sorry.

It looks like the package for the nut you found says that it is zinc coated. I do not believe that zinc coatings are food safe. You might want to check before using.

 

[The Pol]

Yah, do not use zinc in brewing, just clicked on the image. Dont waste your time with that nut.

 

[Red Clay]

The spreadsheet is listed here in this post.

Oh, cool. I read the thread but must have been less than awake when I read that post. Thanks!

 

[Acidjazz54]

I have a quick question. I saw another post about Heatsticks and it looked like the poster had the heatstick laying against the bottom of his metal boil kettle. Is this ok to do or was I seeing things?

 

[The Pol]

Nothing wrong that I can see with it laying on the metal.

 

[Acidjazz54]

Great. Looks like I'm going to pick up the parts today and start using it tomorrow if the JB Weld is cured.

 

[The Pol]

Great. Looks like I'm going to pick up the parts today and start using it tomorrow if the JB Weld is cured.

JB Weld is exothermic, heat cures it faster... When I potted my element connections I used a hair dryer to speed the process. You can use that or boiling water to speed the process greatly.

 

[passedpawn]

I love electric. I just finished 10gal batch of an Octoberfest. I have a 5500W element in a highly-insulated keggle. This was one of the easiest batches of beer ever. love love love my e-keggle. Building another one today.

 

[BrewBeemer]

The January/February 2008 edition of Zymurgy has an article on heatsticks in which the author uses Dap RTV silicone sealant to seal his. It is specified to be food grade, and rated for 400 degrees. At the local Menards I found White Lightning 100% silicone sealant with the same specifications. It says "when fully cured and washed, meets performance requirements of FDA Regulation No. 21 CFR 177.2600. This reg appears to me to specify that the stuff is safe for repeated use in contact with food (I am not a lawyer). If the parts are mechanically secured, then either of these look like a good choice for a sealant.

I used the White Lightning stuff to seal my MLT drain site. A caulk gun tube was less than $4.

I have no commercial ties to any of this stuff.

I would use that DAP silicone that's flexible as well the cord your sealing against long before sealing that flexible cord with any type of epoxy that's rock hard. Again this is JMO if I were to build a heatstick.

 

[lazybean]

It looks like the package for the nut you found says that it is zinc coated. I do not believe that zinc coatings are food safe. You might want to check before using.

Yes it is, but so is the stock one that comes with the pipe extension. It will only be in my HLT so just in contact with reg water not wort.

Also, the base of all the heating elements are zinc plated.
from a manufacture:

"What does Incoloy mean?"
Incoloy is a type of extra high-grade stainless steel that helps extend the life of the element, resists burnout and the effects of lime over time. For these elements, incoloy pertains to the element coil, not the threaded base of the elements. Non-incoloy element coils are copper on the inside with a nickel plating on the outside. The threaded bases on all of these elements are made of zinc-plated carbon steel.

If i change my keggle over to electric i will direct mount it and use a SS nut, since that will be in the wort, and i would want to minimize the Zinc contact.

 

[brewluver]

i am looking at doing in the future a system like POL's BLING BLING Electric HERMS thread but I have a lot more reading and learn about it to do.

For now though I would like to make an HLT that was electric and was controlled so i could set the temp i want and not worry about checking it with my thermometer every couple of minutes. I'm thinking a 10 gallon HD cooler but i also have a spare keggle. What would be the best way to set this up and could i do this on only 120V. I only do 5 gallon batches right now just so you know.


any info would be great.

EDIT: Should probably start new thread so i will make new thread under DIY

 

[aekdbbop]

k, if using a heatstick in the bk.. should I stay away from using hopbags? worried about burning the cloth..

 

[passedpawn]

My brew spider hangs very near the element, and I don't think it is a problem. Paint strainer bag.

 

[BrewBeemer]

The spreadsheet is listed here in this post.

Sorry pol I couldn't resist this one, enjoy! Best seen at full screen with the volume cranked up.

 

[The Pol]

Yes, seen that... That looks like an American plane... Delta must be using this for training nowdays. LOL

 

[wilserbrewer]

k, if using a heatstick in the bk.. should I stay away from using hopbags? worried about burning the cloth..

I just chuck em in....that's the way i've always done it. We don't need no stinkin hop bags.

To answer your question...i doubt the element would burn thebag unles you let it smother...ymmv...keep a little distance and you will most likely be fine.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Yes, seen that... That looks like an American plane... Delta must be using this for training nowdays. LOL

My pilot friend from a Rover forum lives in the most upper part of Canada that humans can live, he's only rated for 50 or 52 passenger birds. He flies thru many of whiteouts as well heads to many alternate airports as he can't land. A bit on the crazy side if you ask me.
The best one was flying many times in and out of Hong Kong years ago.
Looking down seeing sky is not a good sign or going vertical in a empty C130 which I was in once.