Grapefruit Hibiscus Gose Help!

[TheMadKing]

I'm building a recipe for a grapefruit hibiscus gose, and I've never used hibiscus before. Based on my thread searches, people either add it to the boil, dry hop with it, or make a tea and add it to the keg.

My goal is a beer colored and flavored drink, but with accents of grapefruit and hibiscus. I definitely do not want a pink milkshake that doesn't taste like beer. Refreshing light beer with accents.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated! My recipe so far is:

4lb 2 row
4lb white wheat
6oz melanoindin

Mash at 147 for 60 minutes, cool to 120, pitch a lacto starter and sour to 3.3pH

Boil
0.4 oz hallertau at 60 minute 7 ibu
add the zest of 1 grapefruit at 15 minutes
0.25 oz of coriander at 15 minutes
0.75 g of sea salt

1 oz of hibiscus at 15 minutes??????

Ferment at 65 with a kolsch or german ale yeast

Thanks!

 

[TheMadKing]

Bump

 

[TheMadKing]

So after more research, it looks like I'm going to end up with a pink beer no matter what I do. For the least amount of color, I think I'll use hibiscus extract, or make a tincture with vodka and dump the vodka into the keg.

I would appreciate any advice from people who have used hibiscus.

 

[TandemTails]

Yeah, you're not going to get a yellow beer if you use any hibiscus in a quantity where it actually lends flavor or aroma to the beer.

Even making a tincture with vodka is going to turn the vodka purple. I guess it depends on how much of the tincture you add to the beer which will determine the color. But that comes right back around to not adding enough will prevent you from getting any hibiscus flavor.

I've used hibiscus in several meads and a saison. For the saison I added some to the end of the boil and also made a tea with it which was added to secondary. The result was a very purple beer.

 

[TheMadKing]

Yeah, you're not going to get a yellow beer if you use any hibiscus in a quantity where it actually lends flavor or aroma to the beer.

Even making a tincture with vodka is going to turn the vodka purple. I guess it depends on how much of the tincture you add to the beer which will determine the color. But that comes right back around to not adding enough will prevent you from getting any hibiscus flavor.

I've used hibiscus in several meads and a saison. For the saison I added some to the end of the boil and also made a tea with it which was added to secondary. The result was a very purple beer.

Thanks! I'm slightly rethinking the hibiscus in favor of prickly pear or just the grapefruit

 

[RevKev]

Why don't you want a colored beer?

 

[TandemTails]

Thanks! I'm slightly rethinking the hibiscus in favor of prickly pear or just the grapefruit

Unfortunately I don't think prickly pear is going to help much either, haha.

My prickly pear blonde ale from last year:

 

[TheMadKing]

Why don't you want a colored beer?

I like my beer to look like beer lol.. Its not that big of a deal really

 

[TheMadKing]

Unfortunately I don't think prickly pear is going to help much either, haha.



My prickly pear blonde ale from last year:

Holy Crap!!

So this recipe is inspired by Sierra Nevada Otra Vez which is prickly pear and grapefruit and it has no coloration at all. I wonder how they did it now..

 

[TandemTails]

Holy Crap!!

So this recipe is inspired by Sierra Nevada Otra Vez which is prickly pear and grapefruit and it has no coloration at all. I wonder how they did it now..

If I remember right, I think they use the nopal (the big green part of the cactus) and not the prickly pear itself. If you have a mexican grocery store nearby you can probably find them with the spikes already removed.

 

[IslandLizard]

Holy Crap!!

So this recipe is inspired by Sierra Nevada Otra Vez which is prickly pear and grapefruit and it has no coloration at all. I wonder how they did it now..

Big breweries don't use actual fruit. They buy (expensive) fruit extracts made by other companies. All high tech and actually pretty good tasting, often better and more predictable than using real fruit. I'm quite sure they have a way to remove color too. Ever wondered why there are so many fruit beers out there?

 

[TheMadKing]

Big breweries don't use actual fruit. They buy (expensive) fruit extracts made by other companies. All high tech and actually pretty good tasting, often better and more predictable than using real fruit. I'm quite sure they have a way to remove color too. Ever wondered why there are so many fruit beers out there?

I figured it had to be something like that. I think I'll go with the nopal idea that TandemTails suggested. Now I have figure out just how to use them!

 

[Morrey]

MadKing, I just sent you a PM asking about this beer before realizing there was an active thread on the subject.

I make a great watermelon Gose with a melon concentrate process KeyWestBrewing shared with me. I add the concentrate at kegging, then dry hopped one ounce of dried hibiscus for 24 hours.

Personally (just me) I like citrus like lemons or limes to be zested with no pith and covered with a neutral spirit like vodka. Grapefruit would work in this example. Pitch grapefruit tincture to taste when kegging or to your bottling bucket.

I think the hibiscus will definitely turn the beer pinkish.....but just call it a Pink Grapefruit Gose. You'll be a hero!

 

[TheMadKing]

MadKing, I just sent you a PM asking about this beer before realizing there was an active thread on the subject.



I make a great watermelon Gose with a melon concentrate process KeyWestBrewing shared with me. I add the concentrate at kegging, then dry hopped one ounce of dried hibiscus for 24 hours.



Personally (just me) I like citrus like lemons or limes to be zested with no pith and covered with a neutral spirit like vodka. Grapefruit would work in this example. Pitch grapefruit tincture to taste when kegging or to your bottling bucket.



I think the hibiscus will definitely turn the beer pinkish.....but just call it a Pink Grapefruit Gose. You'll be a hero!

Thanks for the input! I like the idea of the tincture so that I can do the grapefruit to taste, I'm leery of overdoing it.

I probably won't brew this until some time in January though, so still have plenty of time to think about it.

 

[TheMadKing]

Ok I'm going to resurrect this thread because I'm brewing this on saturday

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.77 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.57 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.25 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.15 gal
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 4.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 7.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 78.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.5 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 48.5 %
4 lbs White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 2 48.5 %
4.0 oz Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 3.0 %
0.75 oz Salt (Boil 60.0 mins) Flavor 4 -
0.50 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrueh [4.00 %] - Boil Hop 5 7.9 IBUs
1.00 Items Grapefruit Zest (Boil 15.0 mins) Flavor 6 -
0.50 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 7 -
1.0 pkg German Ale/Kolsch (White Labs #WLP029) [ Yeast 8 -
30.00 g hibiscus (Bottling 0.0 mins) Flavor 9 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 8 lbs 4.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 7.36 gal of water at 152.8 F 147.9 F 90 min

Sparge: If steeping, remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes:
------
Sour mash with lacto starter to 3.3pH

Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have dried hibiscus flower and I'm still debating throwing this in at whirlpool. I've already resigned myself to the fact that I'm making a pink beer.

As for the grapefruit, does anyone know what gets the best grapefruit flavor without adding bitterness? I could use peel, zest, puree, or juice and add it at any point in the process really. I'm leaning toward adding puree to primary or at whirlpool as well.

Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[TheMadKing]

So I decided to just go with my gut. I ended up making a puree of whole grapefruits (2 grapefruits, peel and all) and put 1 oz of dried hibiscus in it and let it sit for about 45 minutes for the hibiscus to rehydrate, then I put into a hop sock and soaked in whirlpool at 180F for 20 minutes, dunking occasionally. I squeezed all of the liquid out of it when it was done soaking, and then continued chilling.

Surprisingly, the beer is only very slightly pink but the grapefruit aroma in fantastic! The hydrometer sample was very tart despite still having an OG of 1.043, and after my german ale yeast goes to town on it for a few days, this is going to be one sour beer. I'm pretty excited for how this one turns out.

 

[Morrey]

So I decided to just go with my gut. I ended up making a puree of whole grapefruits (2 grapefruits, peel and all) and put 1 oz of dried hibiscus in it and let it sit for about 45 minutes for the hibiscus to rehydrate, then I put into a hop sock and soaked in whirlpool at 180F for 20 minutes, dunking occasionally. I squeezed all of the liquid out of it when it was done soaking, and then continued chilling.

Surprisingly, the beer is only very slightly pink but the grapefruit aroma in fantastic! The hydrometer sample was very tart despite still having an OG of 1.043, and after my german ale yeast goes to town on it for a few days, this is going to be one sour beer. I'm pretty excited for how this one turns out.

You made this work! Hope you'll share the final outcome. 3.3ph with the grapefruit pith included in the puree is pucker power time...love it!!!

Surprised it is only a tinge of pink from the hibiscus. I have dry hopped an oz in keg overnight and the beer was red. I backed it off to a shorter time and only took an hour to get where I wanted the color. I noted the longer soak gives you an almost rose hip type flavor which I actually liked for the acidity it brought out.

 

[Morrey]

Big breweries don't use actual fruit. They buy (expensive) fruit extracts made by other companies. All high tech and actually pretty good tasting, often better and more predictable than using real fruit. I'm quite sure they have a way to remove color too. Ever wondered why there are so many fruit beers out there?

I was surprised to find this out (as you stated IslandLizard) from the head brewer at Sweetwater in Atlanta. He is very candid and forthcoming helping with ideas I have asked him about regarding several of his beers and how I can brew something similar. One example is their beer "Goin'Coastal" IPA with pineapple infusion. I asked him how to infuse the pineapple and he said they buy high quality extracts in huge containers. Not artificial stuff but natural concentrates.

Same with New Belgium in Asheville. On a tour there the brewer said their additives are high quality flavor infusions, not actual fruit.

 

[TheMadKing]

UPDATE:

I'm being unusually impatient on this beer, and I might have shot myself in the foot...

Took a gravity sample last night, 1.008 so It's almost done fermenting already, but it tastes AWFUL! The bitterness from the grapefruit + hops is almost exactly equal with the sourness from the lacto and it leaves an aftertaste like vomit/bile for several minutes after you swallow. SWMBO also says the coriander is overwhelming to her on top of that (I used 0.5 oz crushed and in the last 5 min of the boil).

I don't think the bitterness is going to mellow much with age, so this might be a failed experiment and lesson to never use whole grapefruit puree (peel and pith included) in a sour beer. I'll report back after it's had a few weeks to condition. I highly doubt there's anything I can do to salvage this one