Grainfather!!

[treacheroustexan]

Hello all,

First Grainfather brew today. 110V U.S. system with the grain coat.

All went well, with small exception that I knocked the silicone cap off of the filter just as I came up to boil. My fault - aggressive stirring, paddle too low and rotation in exactly the wrong direction. Fortunately, it was a low hopped ale (2.5 oz total) and the pump somehow managed to do its job, albeit slowly...

Brewhouse efficiency was 80.5%, which seems a little low from what many are reporting, but much higher that I was getting via my old batch sparge system. Pre-boil gravity was 1.048 (estimated 1.047) and OG followed suit at 1.053 (estimated 1.052).

I did collect more wort than anticipated. I was shooting for a 6 gallon batch and collected 6.4. I started the process with 7.4 gallons prior to the 60 minute boil. Most of my brews are 60 minute boils and I'm interested in what others are getting.

Using the calculator on the GF site and a 60 min. boil, my volumes have been exact every time over the past year.

 

[Minky]

Using the calculator on the GF site and a 60 min. boil, my volumes have been exact every time over the past year.

I've only done two batches so far, but I used the GF online calculator and it's dead on.

 

[elreplica]

Running the test now. Funny mine fits. Not sure how you couldnt get it to.

Figured I would give reflectix + grain coat a try... for science of course. Results were negligible


These were my original numbers



filled with ~5g hot water. temps read at ~135*.





No graincoat

time to hit to strike temp of ~152 = 17min.

time to hit boil temps.

44mins @212* from 152*


With graincoat
135-> 152 11min
152->212 34min


No appreciable change that I can tell

Graincoat + reflectix

11min
34min

Thanks for the feedback...maybe my Reflectix was a little thicker. But...it's useful to know it didn't matter!

 

[skraeling]

Thanks for the feedback...maybe my Reflectix was a little thicker. But...it's useful to know it didn't matter!

Maybe it makes a difference when trying to retain heat in larger volumes. I'll be testing more later.

 

[shadar]

I had no idea the graincoat made such a difference...

Can I ask, what was your ambient temperature?

 

[skraeling]

I had no idea the graincoat made such a difference...

Can I ask, what was your ambient temperature?

All tests done between 67-69* ambient. Indoors in my kitchen. Same outlet was used. No other appliances were running on the same circuit.

All initial water was put in straight from faucet with hot water.

Note: test was done with the lid on. Both to simulate how you would heat up water initially and to simulate having the grain basket above it during Sparge (you switch to boil while sparging typically.). That and I didn't want to wait longer than I needed haha.

I'll run a similar test with say ~7g+ to act like a typical volume one would see heading to boil.

 

[Kampenken]

All tests done between 67-69* ambient. Indoors in my kitchen. Same outlet was used. No other appliances were running on the same circuit.

All initial water was put in straight from faucet with hot water.

Note: test was done with the lid on. Both to simulate how you would heat up water initially and to simulate having the grain basket above it during Sparge (you switch to boil while sparging typically.). That and I didn't want to wait longer than I needed haha.

I'll run a similar test with say ~7g+ to act like a typical volume one would see heading to boil.

Yeah that will make a difference.

Two thoughts, one, do put lid (and towel on lid) on top of grain basket in between pouring water while also tucking two hand towels around basket and boiler lip. Two, I also use lid and towel when I'm done with sparge getting to a boil.

Also, I always start with cold water, (maybe you do too), due to water heater concerns. Lots of talk / opinions on that topic on HBT.

Cheers!

 

[skraeling]

Yeah that will make a difference.

Two thoughts, one, do put lid (and towel on lid) on top of grain basket in between pouring water while also tucking two hand towels around basket and boiler lip. Two, I also use lid and towel when I'm done with sparge getting to a boil.

Also, I always start with cold water, (maybe you do too), due to water heater concerns. Lots of talk / opinions on that topic on HBT.

Cheers!

water heater concerns? news to me. Just tasted a batch (holiday ale remake part II) I noticed no issues. It frankly tastes better than the first time already. started with hot water both times. granted I may in hindsight start using cold water.

 

[treacheroustexan]

water heater concerns? news to me. Just tasted a batch (holiday ale remake part II) I noticed no issues. It frankly tastes better than the first time already.

I use cold water on the days that I have all day to brew. And when I am in a rush to brew I use hot tap water.

A lot of people say not to use hot water from the tap because of all of the bacteria and corrosion that could be sitting in the hot water tank. I haven't noticed a difference in taste, but doesn't mean it's not there.

 

[TexasWine]

A lot of people say not to use hot water from the tap because of all of the bacteria and corrosion that could be sitting in the hot water tank.

Actually, the reason is lead, which you wouldn't notice until it's too late.

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/tips/water.htm

 

[treacheroustexan]

Actually, the reason is lead, which you wouldn't notice until it's too late.

https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/tips/water.htm

And lead comes from corrosion.

 

[skraeling]

And lead comes from corrosion.

seeing as how my house was built only 20 years ago (late 90's) im not worried about lead.

 

[cowfodder]

I use cold water on the days that I have all day to brew. And when I am in a rush to brew I use hot tap water.

A lot of people say not to use hot water from the tap because of all of the bacteria and corrosion that could be sitting in the hot water tank. I haven't noticed a difference in taste, but doesn't mean it's not there.

Another reason that I installed a tankless water heater.

 

[pocketmon]

What is your opinion about the temperature difference of mash?

I put a second temperature sensor at the top of malt basket. Not wanting the non food safe material to touch the wort, I used a thermowell which might introduce error in temperature measurement. Nevertheless, the temperature log shows clearly that the temperature at the upper part rose slower than that at the bottom where the "main" sensor locates.

Check the pictures and tell me what you think.

FYI, I forget to switch to "mash" mode after dough-in, so the temperature of "main" sensor is not stable.

 

[Jettison]

Performed my first Grainfather brew yesterday with the Connect bluetooth unit.

I haven't had any exposure to the original GF, so don't have a real comparison, but my word - does the Connect work wonderfully!

I got a free Mangrove Jack's grain kit with my purchase, so it was a stock-standard recipe as far as the app was concerned. Will be interesting to see how importing a recipe from Beer Smith et al works with the Connect system

Being my first use of the GF, I'm pretty sure I screwed a few things up. The main one being stirring up the trub from the bottom of the kettle when whirlpooling.

Resulted in a lot of trub being pumped into the fermenter, but I guess it's not a huge deal.

Was also about 2L short of the expected 23L I was aiming for. Would I be best to add that volume to my strike water or sparge water?

Another issue I had was with the pump. A few times it was an absolute pain to get started. Made a strange clicking noise like it was trying to pump, but no luck. Thankfully it only happened during cleaning, so I was able to eventually get it going by clearing the outlet with a bit of old fashioned mouth siphoning.

Am I missing any tricks to do with the pump?

 

[Chiller_ale]

What is your opinion about the temperature difference of mash?

Did you have the pump valve full open? If the bottom switch is not on mash it will way over shoot and take awhile to come back down. That is where having some of the top water go down the overflow tube to keep the two areas closer together helps.

Make sure you use a Mash Infusion Calculator to get your initial mash temp correct. If you hit that and have a Graincoat/reflectix the temp should not drop much for the full 60 min even without the pump.

 

[pocketmon]

Did you have the pump valve full open? If the bottom switch is not on mash it will way over shoot and take awhile to come back down. That is where having some of the top water go down the overflow tube to keep the two areas closer together helps.

Make sure you use a Mash Infusion Calculator to get your initial mash temp correct. If you hit that and have a Graincoat/reflectix the temp should not drop much for the full 60 min even without the pump.

I adjusted the pump valve so that the wort is just above the overflow pipe.

The mash could maintain its temperature fine. However, my issue is about temperature ramp for multiple rest steps. The temperature at the bottom rises fast while the top rises slowly. Even if I have the valve full open, I suspect that the temperature at the middle of mash basket would rises slowly.

 

[Chiller_ale]

The mash could maintain its temperature fine. However, my issue is about temperature ramp for multiple rest steps. The temperature at the bottom rises fast while the top rises slowly. Even if I have the valve full open, I suspect that the temperature at the middle of mash basket would rises slowly.

Yeah, you are right about step mashes. I think your best shot there is to do a thinner mash to get more flow through the grain and keep it pumping at full volume. For real step mashes you may have to remove the top screen and give it a stir.

Remember the bottom section is more or less sealed off from the rest of the mash by the basket and screen. The heater and temp probe is sitting in ~3/4 Gal space and the pump is the only way that hot section is going to move. I don't think much heat can move up past the bottom screen.

I have only been doing single infusion and a mash out the last 15 min.

 

[Kampenken]

Performed my first Grainfather brew yesterday with the Connect bluetooth unit.

I haven't had any exposure to the original GF, so don't have a real comparison, but my word - does the Connect work wonderfully!

I got a free Mangrove Jack's grain kit with my purchase, so it was a stock-standard recipe as far as the app was concerned. Will be interesting to see how importing a recipe from Beer Smith et al works with the Connect system

Being my first use of the GF, I'm pretty sure I screwed a few things up. The main one being stirring up the trub from the bottom of the kettle when whirlpooling.

Resulted in a lot of trub being pumped into the fermenter, but I guess it's not a huge deal.

Was also about 2L short of the expected 23L I was aiming for. Would I be best to add that volume to my strike water or sparge water?

Another issue I had was with the pump. A few times it was an absolute pain to get started. Made a strange clicking noise like it was trying to pump, but no luck. Thankfully it only happened during cleaning, so I was able to eventually get it going by clearing the outlet with a bit of old fashioned mouth siphoning.

Am I missing any tricks to do with the pump?

Welcome, and congrats on first brew!

As for being short on volume, did you tip the GF to fully pump out? How much was left behind? Its possible that you have a greater boil off rate going on, if you did empty well. If so, I'd adjust in the sparge, i.e. adjusting the factor of 6.9g for 5.5g of wort up to 7.4g.

I haven't experienced what you note on the pump. I have had it appear to not be primed (it does need to be gravity fed) and that was simply worked out by turning off and back on again (not sure if it can airlock). Mouth siphoning on the pipe?? Uh, no, never. That's the first I've read here of anyone having to do that. Hope you don't get into that jam again.

 

[rossi46]

I just got a grainfather, but have not had the chance to brew with it. At the brew club meeting last week, a farmer was kind enough to drop off some malted tritacale, I have 10 lbs I wanted to make something that features the malt, but that's a lot of huskless malt. Has anybody done a major wheat or rye recipe ?

 

[MGBBob80]

2nd brew with the GF today. Managed to keep the cap on the filter this time and was happy with that. Pump/filter worked great! I used the GF online calculator and volumes were spot on. Thanks to several of you who keyed me in to that a page or so back.

Pre-boil gravity was also spot on (1.062), but OG was lower than I anticipated (1.066) which makes me suspect my pre-boil reading. Beersmith estimated I'd get a 1.071 and I have achieved that with this particular recipe using my batch sparge equipment. Something else to ponder...

Thinking about it, I did use 0.5lbs Rice Hulls as I've had several stuck sparges (batch sparge method) with this one previously. I did not pre-soak them and something in the back of my mind says that I should have or it can adversely affect efficiency. This GF sparge was a real easy one so they probably need to be deleted from the recipe.

 

[Jettison]

Welcome, and congrats on first brew!

As for being short on volume, did you tip the GF to fully pump out? How much was left behind? Its possible that you have a greater boil off rate going on, if you did empty well. If so, I'd adjust in the sparge, i.e. adjusting the factor of 6.9g for 5.5g of wort up to 7.4g.

I haven't experienced what you note on the pump. I have had it appear to not be primed (it does need to be gravity fed) and that was simply worked out by turning off and back on again (not sure if it can airlock). Mouth siphoning on the pipe?? Uh, no, never. That's the first I've read here of anyone having to do that. Hope you don't get into that jam again.

Thanks for the reply -

I did tilt the GF to get maximum wort from the pump. The flow really slowed down quite a lot and was pumping out very milky-looking liquid when I decided to switch it off. I didn't measure, but I expect there was maybe 1L of gunky liquid that I tipped out down the drain.

I might be wrong, but is that dead space liquid not accounted for in the water calcs? Should I pump the GF dry, including the rather sick looking hop sediment etc?

I saw a video that exactly replicated the pump issue I was experiencing. I did try switching the pump off and on again more than a few times without luck. Even the siphoning I mentioned didn't work the first few times. I'll add a link to the video below -

https://youtu.be/wbBfXE3GBRM

 

[shadar]

I adjusted the pump valve so that the wort is just above the overflow pipe.

The mash could maintain its temperature fine. However, my issue is about temperature ramp for multiple rest steps. The temperature at the bottom rises fast while the top rises slowly. Even if I have the valve full open, I suspect that the temperature at the middle of mash basket would rises slowly.

You have nailed my largest problem with the grainfather. The flow through the grains is quite slow and thus causes step mashes to take ages to actually reach temperature... thus defeating the purpose or precision.

As was suggested, removing the screen and stirring is about the only way you can possibly speed this up, or having a much thinner mash but that requires less sparging or a lower ABV beer to accomplish. If you have a beer that basically requires step mashing then this is your best solution.

I've decided to go to go straight to strike temp at 148-157 (+6-9 degrees depending on brew to account for temperature loss from grains) and then go to mash out at 168 for 10 minutes (which doesn't actually reach 168 through the entire grain bed, but at least gets it closer).

Since doing this I've had dramatically better results than doing step mashes.

Honestly, people get WAY too complicated with brewing. I just won gold, silver and bronze on three different beers I've brewed over the past year on my grainfather and I don't do even half of the "complicated" things people often do. I don't do starters, I don't do aeration, I don't worry about insulating the temperature probe against the fermenter (but I do have the fermenter is a temp controlled chamber), I don't secondary, I don't try to minimize oxygen touching the beer, I don't do step mashes or decoction mashes, etc, etc.

Keep it simple and more importantly keep it clean and you'll make AWESOME beer. Everything you do to complicate the process is just going to give you a better chance of messing it up.

 

[scallopking]

Just got first in a competition sponsored by my club in the American IPA and won BOS with the GF! (woot) I love this thing, it can make GREAT BEER, NO DOUBT! I have made a few changes on this since starting (kudos back to those on this thread with the good advice) and will keep status quo now.

1. Removed the spring and ball
2. Extended chiller output line so I don't have to move fermenter closer to the GF, seems to have bettered the output flow
3. Use a SS prescreen filter over the mash step downdrain (one half of a SS hop ball)
4. Extended the chiller input line so I can move it off the lid when needed
5. Added a round SS screen on the bottom filter (fits right on top of it)

I don't use a hop spider/filter. Everything is thrown right on. Still using the old controller and may stick with it.

I agree with shadar, no starters, no aeration, no temperature probe insulation, primary only, no step mashes here, only thing is NO oxygen gets to the beer during/after ferment for me. KISS.

 

[rossi46]

/\ nice job

 

[scallopking]

/\ nice job

Thank you!!

 

[skraeling]

So when your friend plans a brew and you accidentally all the grains into your grainfather and he makes it for a 6g batch... 20lb of grain RIS. When I say the wort was up to my eyeballs it was actually going through the holes you pick the mash basket up with (till I throttled the pump flow).

we still hit 1.090 and ~5.8gal into fermentor

 

[TBC]

Connect control box is available on the grainfather website

 

[scallopking]

doesn't seem to be for US or they already sold out

 

[joyride75]

They have the whole system on sale (grainfather with Connect box), but the solo Connect boxes will be available "in the next couple weeks".

This is getting silly.

 

[skraeling]

They have the whole system on sale (grainfather with Connect box), but the solo Connect boxes will be available "in the next couple weeks".



This is getting silly.

I'm hoping I'll have mine first two weeks of march but who the heck knows at this point.

 

[d-bone]

Before I tell the wife I want it for Xmas I thought I would ask the experienced folks here. It contains:
7 gallon (I think) first stage fermenter food grade bucket with top and air lock.
Glass carboy for the second stage.
Hoses and fitting for siphoning.
SG guage, and thermomater (sp).
Brushes for cleaning.
How to book.

For $69. Does that sound about right? I'd still need scales, spoons, etc, but it sounds pretty good to me to get into more sophisticated brewing than the Mr. Beer can do,

almost dont care anymore. the reset switch went out on mine, preventing the elements from heating, and GF says itll be 2 weeks before they get any replacements in. They are however replacing the element for free even though my warranty period has expired. looks like im bottling that 2 year old oud bruin I have been avoiding.

 

[shadar]

Just got first in a competition sponsored by my club in the American IPA and won BOS with the GF! (woot) I love this thing, it can make GREAT BEER, NO DOUBT! I have made a few changes on this since starting (kudos back to those on this thread with the good advice) and will keep status quo now.

1. Removed the spring and ball
2. Extended chiller output line so I don't have to move fermenter closer to the GF, seems to have bettered the output flow
3. Use a SS prescreen filter over the mash step downdrain (one half of a SS hop ball)
4. Extended the chiller input line so I can move it off the lid when needed
5. Added a round SS screen on the bottom filter (fits right on top of it)

I don't use a hop spider/filter. Everything is thrown right on. Still using the old controller and may stick with it.

I agree with shadar, no starters, no aeration, no temperature probe insulation, primary only, no step mashes here, only thing is NO oxygen gets to the beer during/after ferment for me. KISS.

I definitely need to do #3, that sounds like a great idea. Saw someone (maybe you?) post a picture with that recently and it is brilliant.

#4 sounds brilliant too, I'd love to never have the chiller on the lid personally.

But what do you mean by #5?

 

[RedlegEd]

But what do you mean by #5?

Hi. I think he means this. I took a SS splatter screen and trimmed it to the same diameter as the lower grain plate, and it fits in the silicone ring. Ed


ETA: This wasn't my idea, I just didn't add the domed screen. Jamie ( @Tang10 ) originally posted it here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7854988&postcount=2687

 

[Tang10]

Using an extra screen works great

 

[d-bone]

Using an extra screen works great

is your sparge flow affected in any way with the extra screens?

 

[Tang10]

I would say no, but I do adjust the flow to start the mash and increase it as the hour goes on.

 

[RedlegEd]

is your sparge flow affected in any way with the extra screens?

I would say no, but I do adjust the flow to start the mash and increase it as the hour goes on.

I think the other factor that would significantly affect your sparge flow would be the grind of your grist. I condition my grain with 1-2% water (by wt) 24 hours in advance, then grind using a non-adjustable Schmidling MaltMill set to factory specs (~0.045) which is a medium grind. I've found that when I use grain crushed more finely (e.g., by my LHBS) it results in "stuck" or very slow sparges as the flour tends to gum up the lower screen. I also use a handful of rice hulls whenever I use oats or flaked barley/wheat just to keep things a little loose. I figure whatever conversion efficiency I lose to the coarser grind, I can make up in a longer mash. Right now, my conversion efficiencies are usually in the low 90s and high 80s, so I can't really complain. One project I am working on is to add a motorized mixing paddle to the mash pipe to ensure that all the grain is thoroughly mashed and the temperature stays constant in the grain pipe throughout the mashing process. Once I get it working and tried a few times on recipes I've got data for, I'll report back on whether it's worth the effort. Ed

 

[BrewBrains]

What does everyone think about the clarity of your beer with the GF? I was a BIABer for a short time prior to GF and the beer seemed to clear in the keg better than what I am getting now with the GF. I think it may be due to pumping the cold break into the fermentor? Before the last 2 brews, I was pumping the wort through the chiller directly into the fermentor, and even with gelatin and cold crashing, everything stayed hazy. I started recirculating or letting the wort settle in a separate carboy before transferring to the actual fermentor. Waiting to see how the recent lager does and the other one is a hefeweizen so it doesn't matter. What is your experience with beer clarity and how do you do it? Thanks!

 

[Rijnland]

For every brew session since I got my GF 15 months ago, I've used the formulas in the user's guide that came with the unit to compute the mash and sparge water volumes -- Mash = (Grain weight in lbs. x 0.34) + 0.9 US Gal; Sparge = (7.4 - mash volume) + (grain bill in lbs. x 0.1). I even uploaded a rather good set of tweaks for Beersmith that produced the rsame results. I've known for some time that the on-line calculator provided by the GF folks comes up with different results, but I've persisted with the formulas in the user's guide. Since I received my GF Connect unit (US version), I decided I might as well try to use the calculators in the GF Connect app -- in my case the Android version (still waiting for the promised new app, but am trying to use one of the "quick profiles" available in the current app) -- which provide yet a third set of figures. Specifically, for a basic brew using 11.5 lbs. of grain:
1) User's guide: mash = 4.81 gal. (19.24 qts.); sparge = 3.74 gal.; total = 8.55 gal.
2) OnLine: mash = 4.65 gal.; sparge = 3.59 gal.; total = 8.24
3) GF Connect quick profile: mash 4.6 gal.; sparge = 3.9 gal.; total = 8.5 gal.
Given that the Android app is still a work in progress, it's easy enough to simply ignore no. 3, but which is best between the other two? I'm inclined to go with the on-line version, but it does call for 0.31 gal. less in total water. Is that a problem? I'm perfectly happy with the results I've been getting so far, but I would be grateful for any advice in this matter.