grain weevils in my stuff

[odie]

was getting some grain out of my stash for brewing this week. I noticed these little bugs. I first thought were tiny ants but looking closer they are not.

I had picked up a 55# sack a few months ago at my LHBS since they were liquidating everything. It was just a corner area of the local liquor store really. The one guy that ran that homebrew section passed away and the store just wants it all gone.

well this sack was rather infested it seems. It's just been sitting there in my grain storage room. And these critters have found their way into some of my base malt containers. And I keep large containers of base malts. Like full sack size.

A lot of my stuff is in buckets with gamma lids...that stuff is safe.

But guess I gotta dump all the other stuff into bags and freeze them?

Will the freezer kill these grain weevils? Or just make them go dormant?

 

[hilljack13]

I had this issue with wild bird seed. It seemed to work a bit, however I didn't have any storage containers. I would think if you did a quick freeze that might help. Get the temp as low as you can.

 

[odie]

been googling stuff...

I can put it in the oven around 140-150 for 30-60 minutes and it will kill them. that should not affect the malts or turn my base malts into crystal malts.

But I have lots of malts that are possibly exposed.

I have a deep freeze that is for finished keg stroage. But I can just store the beer at room temps too and open up freezer space.

I think the amount of grain that is questionable it would be better to sack it all up in heavy duty garbage bags and dump it all in the deep freeze for a week or two.

I'm dealing with like maybe 300 pounds of base malts that are potentially exposed.

 

[z-bob]

That sucks. Freeze it, and try to use it up fast. I narrowly missed a disaster last year when I bought some dried peppers and happened to notice little moths in the package just before I tossed them in the pantry. They would have gotten into everything and ruined most of it. Instead, I put them in the freezer, crisis averted. But those were Indian meal moths, not weevils. I'm pretty sure cold will kill the weevils too, but don't know about their eggs.

 

[Jag75]

Freeze it , or mash em in . Both will kill them lol .

 

[kevin58]

Even if you kill the bugs there are other things to worry about. If they have been living there any length of time there have been generation after generation of these insects. Your grain not only contains the current living generation but the little carcasses of previous generations that have died. Worse of all however is the amount of insect frass (feces and urine) they have left behind.

 

[odie]

Even if you kill the bugs there are other things to worry about. If they have been living there any length of time there have been generation after generation of these insects. Your grain not only contains the current living generation but the little carcasses of previous generations that have died. Worse of all however is the amount of insect frass (feces and urine) they have left behind.

I'll make some beer for my "mooching" friends.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I'll make some beer for my "mooching" friends.

You can name it bugpisswasser! LOL

 

[day_trippr]

I just threw up in my mouth a little

 

[z-bob]

Even if you kill the bugs there are other things to worry about. If they have been living there any length of time there have been generation after generation of these insects. Your grain not only contains the current living generation but the little carcasses of previous generations that have died. Worse of all however is the amount of insect frass (feces and urine) they have left behind.

Your nose will tell you whether the grain is usable or not. Dead weevils should just taste like grain and you'll filter them out of the wort with the mash anyway. The other stuff in small quantities is disgusting but will just be yeast nutrient, and the boil will sanitize it. If there's enough to smell it though, I wouldn't use the grain.

Do you think the bread you buy is totally free of insect debris? It's doubtful; it's free of significant insect debris that would affect the quality. (one of those things best just to not think about)

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I had the same problem a while ago with a few hundred pounds of grain. Freezing did work for about half of them. The other half, the bugs came back (or hatched) a few days after reaching room temp. I tried freezing again and that worked for half of the half. Rinse and repeat.

I had to dump about 20 pounds of wheat malt because I guess there were so many generations that were in there, there was more 'flour' than usable grain. If you look real close at the grain you can see little holes where they burrowed. If half or more has holes, it's trash as far as I'm concerned.

 

[odie]

Do you think the bread you buy is totally free of insect debris? It's doubtful; it's free of significant insect debris that would affect the quality. (one of those things best just to not think about)

yep...FDA standards for food products have "maximum" allowable amounts of insects, feces, rodents, roaches, etc...

 

[Jag75]

Makes me wonder about canned goods as well .

 

[lumpher]

Probably don't want to use that for competitions unless they allow protein adjuncts... I'd freeze once, then into the mash it goes... for your beer-mooching friends. Tell them it's a special blend you'd like them to try. After all, you wouldn't be lying if you told them that...

 

[FloppyKnockers]

I'm sure the same applies with canned atuff. I heard somewhere that the allowable amount is up to "visible quantities".

Peanut butter and pasta keeps coming up on the search when searching this.

 

[hilljack13]

Freeze it , or mash em in . Both will kill them lol .

Weevil Ale!

 

[MicroMickey]

Weevils only add a little protein to the grain bill.

 

[odie]

freezing will take a couple weeks. Heating is faster.

I think the lowest my oven will run is 170' is this too hot? will it start to kiln my malts? thinking an hour in the oven in a bunch of large aluminum baking pans.

 

[JohnDBrewer]

Co2 will kill them, too. Get a "space bag", suck all the air out of it, flood it with co2, wait a day, one treatment usually does it. Or use brew buckets but these usually take a few treatments as so much o2 is in the grain.

LHBS taught me this. They received several bags in an order, opened one bag saw the bugs, took all the bags from that maltster in the order and put them out back. Gave them away and told me how to treat. He just got new stuff.

 

[tracer bullet]

I wonder if there's something they're more attracted to than grain? Could you fashion a trap of some sort with it, with an opening that let them easily come in but not get out?

 

[JohnDBrewer]

The only time I've ever had an issue with bugs, other than the free bag from the LHBS, has been with acid malts. It's happened a couple of times with acid malt. Bought from different places, stored in different bags (disposable vacuum bags), etc., but ended up getting them. Nothing else has ever been infected. Might be a good bait for your trap.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

freezing will take a couple weeks. Heating is faster.

I think the lowest my oven will run is 170' is this too hot? will it start to kiln my malts? thinking an hour in the oven in a bunch of large aluminum baking pans.

You‘ll probably need to add enzymes to get conversion after that temp.

 

[odie]

170 would kill the enzymes? in a mash yes...but dry heat with already kilned malts?

What are base malts kilned at? surely higher than 200' F

 

[martin0718]

was getting some grain out of my stash for brewing this week. I noticed these little bugs. I first thought were tiny ants but looking closer they are not.

I had picked up a 55# sack a few months ago at my LHBS since they were liquidating everything. It was just a corner area of the local liquor store really. The one guy that ran that homebrew section passed away and the store just wants it all gone.

well this sack was rather infested it seems. It's just been sitting there in my grain storage room. And these critters have found their way into some of my base malt containers. And I keep large containers of base malts. Like full sack size.

A lot of my stuff is in buckets with gamma lids...that stuff is safe.

But guess I gotta dump all the other stuff into bags and freeze them?

Will the freezer kill these grain weevils? Or just make them go dormant?

You could freeze the grain and just pull what you need when you need. That would stop them.

was getting some grain out of my stash for brewing this week. I noticed these little bugs. I first thought were tiny ants but looking closer they are not.

I had picked up a 55# sack a few months ago at my LHBS since they were liquidating everything. It was just a corner area of the local liquor store really. The one guy that ran that homebrew section passed away and the store just wants it all gone.

well this sack was rather infested it seems. It's just been sitting there in my grain storage room. And these critters have found their way into some of my base malt containers. And I keep large containers of base malts. Like full sack size.

A lot of my stuff is in buckets with gamma lids...that stuff is safe.

But guess I gotta dump all the other stuff into bags and freeze them?

Will the freezer kill these grain weevils? Or just make them go dormant?

You could freeze it and use what you need when you need it. Pull night before brew day. I doubt freezing will kill them as these bugs are in the grain growing areas and most places freeze for months. You could throw 02 absorbers in, but a 55 lb bag would take quit a few. I freeze dry food so I have a lem vacuum bagger. It's a chamber vacuum but a food saver might work. Duck the oxygen out and no bugs as like us they need oxygen. I vac everything I'm not usi g I side 30 days. While these bug are present in all grai n the idea of live one's is ki d of a turn off

 

[whattabrau]

I once had a sack which contained weevils. I noticed them only when I was doing my first brew with that grain. After the panic subsided, I made a point to always scoop the grains from that container last. The weevils died soon enough in the vittels vault. Brewed like normal. I haven't actually thought about the whole thing in years.

I recommend getting isolated containers for all of your inventory and cutting down the size of the inventory to whatever you go through in ~6 months. Never know what pests find their way into your storage next, but slow staling is guaranteed. (If you go through 300# of grains in 6 months, then disregard the bit about cutting down the inventory)

 

[martin0718]

You could freeze the grain and just pull what you need when you need. That would stop them.

You could freeze it and use what you need when you need it. Pull night before brew day. I doubt freezing will kill them as these bugs are in the grain growing areas and most places freeze for months. You could throw 02 absorbers in, but a 55 lb bag would take quit a few. I freeze dry food so I have a lem vacuum bagger. It's a chamber vacuum but a food saver might work. Duck the oxygen out and no bugs as like us they need oxygen. I vac everything I'm not usi g I side 30 days. While these bug are present in all grai n the idea of live one's is ki d of a turn off

Oh and the o2 absorbers will not work in any breathable bag. So you'd need a vac bag anyway

 

[odie]

so no opinions on 170 degrees in the oven?

My freezer is for finished keg storage. I would need to take all the finished kegs out and sit them at room temps to get all my grain in.

seriously, that much base malts sitting around...

Only a couple seem infected but going to treat all my base grains. I have 9 different base malts. anywhere from 25-50 pounds of each on hand.

the freezer would be much easier but I'm loath to set my finished kegs at room temps.

but ya gotta do what ya gotta do

 

[lumpher]

so no opinions on 170 degrees in the oven?

My freezer is for finished keg storage. I would need to take all the finished kegs out and sit them at room temps to get all my grain in.

seriously, that much base malts sitting around...

Only a couple seem infected but going to treat all my base grains. I have 9 different base malts. anywhere from 25-50 pounds of each on hand.

the freezer would be much easier but I'm loath to set my finished kegs at room temps.

but ya gotta do what ya gotta do

Grain will start to convert at about 160. They're talking about wet, but I'm thinking dry at 170 will damage it.

https://homebrewanswers.com/crystal-malt/

 

[MaxStout]

 

[martin0718]

Even if you kill the bugs there are other things to worry about. If they have been living there any length of time there have been generation after generation of these insects. Your grain not only contains the current living generation but the little carcasses of previous generations that have died. Worse of all however is the amount of insect frass (feces and urine) they have left behind.

Thats what gives ot flavor....lol

 

[beren]

That extra 0.001 in your OG

 

[odie]

got all my base malts bagged, tagged and in the 9 cf freezer. 2-row, belgian pale, marris otter, wheat, red wheat, vienna, pilsner, munich, kolsch, pale ale. Probably a good 250# or more. Most of the base malts had "trace" amounts of weevils. The sack of UK pale that was just sitting on the floor had the bulk of the weevils. It was most likely the vector of intrusion.

all the specialty malts are still in 22 sealed buckets with gamma lids. Those will get the same treatment in a couple weeks...just to be safe.

If you note the larger bucket in the corner that the kegs are sitting in...those hold almost 60# and 8 of those were holding my base malts. Some sealed snuggly but some did not. they do not have a sealing gasket, just plastic to plastic. thus allowed for intrusion. If I can source extra large o-rings I will use them again. Otherwise, more gamma lids for 5 gall buckets.

 

[hottpeper13]

I'd have to hang upside down after putting all those grains in the freezer too!

 

[odie]

after 2 days it's dropped to 11 degrees. probe is in the middle of the pile of grain bags. Lots of thermal mass to cool down.

I should probably move the probe to the top middle just under the lid. that is probably the warmed spot.

 

[odie]

move the probe to top middle, just under the freezer lid. I assume this to be the warmest spot.

It "warmed" up significantly but has slowly, but steadily dropped. Now appears stable at 9' F as measured at the top on the plie of grain bags just under the freezer lid. If this is indeed the warmest spot then the bulk of the grain is much colder.

will let sit until after labor day to destroy any and all eggs to totally eradicate the weevils.

 

[JAReeves]

"Do I eat them? No!"

 

[Dland]

If you stop them from procreating my guess is the grain is going to be fine.

You think they chucked big batches of grain in the old days on account of a few moth or beetle larvi, do you think they chuck them nowdays for that reason? My guess is no.

You stopped the increase, so unless the grain is all full of webs and larvi hulls, I'd say brew it all up and don't let it happen again [:

 

[IslandLizard]

all the specialty malts are still in 22 sealed buckets with gamma lids. Those will get the same treatment in a couple weeks...just to be safe.

What makes you think the weevils got into those?

 

[odie]

What makes you think the weevils got into those?

I've seen no indications. But after I take the base malts out of the freezer and into sealed containers...the freezer will be open for another treatment. So why not freeze those for a couple weeks just to be safe?

Or do crystal malts not ever have weevil issues?

Pretty sure the black and chocolate malts are not anything grain bugs want anything to do with...but what about crystal/caramel malts? I've got stuff as low as C-30 and even caraplis/carafoam which I think is even less killed. Victory, brown malt, aromatic, rye, etc.

 

[IslandLizard]

I've seen no indications. But after I take the base malts out of the freezer and into sealed containers...the freezer will be open for another treatment. So why not freeze those for a couple weeks just to be safe?

Or do crystal malts not ever have weevil issues?

Pretty sure the black and chocolate malts are not anything grain bugs want anything to do with...but what about crystal/caramel malts? I've got stuff as low as C-30 and even caraplis/carafoam which I think is even less killed. Victory, brown malt, aromatic, rye, etc.

The main reason those sealed containers could be exempt from bug infestations is that they're well closed.
But it's possible a measuring scoop used in all bins could contaminate others by transferring a few grains containing weevil eggs.

I had a small weevil take over in a few small paper bags with a variety of unmalted grain I had bought at Whole Foods, They were inside a storage tote, my dog heard them rustling, staring at the totes, which got my attention. Some were crawling out when I opened it.

I've had a larger grain moth infestation that I reckon rode in with a sack of Crisp Pale Malt... 3 weeks in the freezer was definitely the best strategy to eliminate them. And keeping a keen eye out ever since...